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Mathias Brunet: A new David Fischer

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Old
11-16-2008, 01:52 PM
  #26
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We're all over the map on this one, we're even talking about Lucic and Giroux. Lucic (Cam Neely #2) hasn't done all that much - BTW how long did Cam Neely play and how many cups did he win again?
David Fischer, an enigma, a project but I've seen him play and this guy can skate and pass! He was a 20th pick and many scouts had him in the 2nd round in a weak draft year. Expectations might be too high ! Also, His development was stalled by his bout with mononucleosis. A good defensive corps needs a mix of all types of defenceman unless your the 1976 Habs and you play the Big Three for 40 minutes a game. These Canadiens won't have a slam dunk Norris Trophy D unless someone evolves - Fischer, McDonagh, Weber, Subban, Carle, O'Byrne, Gorges ( Markov, Komi, Hamrlik, Bouillon might not all be here in 4 years) and don't forget Stesjkal, Paquet, Kishel who might develop too. Fischer has all the tools, don't judge too quickly - Brisebois might play 1000 games in the NHL and who called that one.

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Old
11-16-2008, 02:37 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
It's about flipping time he does something. I hope to eat crow one day, but I don't have much faith in Fischer. I hope as a Habs fan that he proves me wrong...
for a 6'5 guy having energy sapping illness and losing weight... lowering his body weight to 180lbs... euh do you not remember Patrick Traverse?

How is he supposed to "do something" if he loses alot of muscle weight? how is he supposed to develop his physical game and confidence (which comes from doing his job properly... which he couldn't do because doing basic things such as moving a player off the puck and into the corner is kinda hard when ur weak)

people... sometime Life bites you in the but... it did to Fischer he just needed time to get back on track...

Patience is key for any player development no matter the player

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11-16-2008, 02:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
And what is your point ? The Habs drafted Maxwell just ahead of Lucic. Another mistake.
Centers in general take a lot more time to develop than big & rough wingers. I don't think you can call it a mistake just yet. I'd be nice to have Lucic though, that's for sure.

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11-16-2008, 03:43 PM
  #29
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He impressed me alot at the dev camp and im not surprised one bit by his season thus far. I always been high and positive on him despite all the critisism.

Honestly it's not even about the player itself it's just logical, how can you be down on a long term project after 2 years?

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11-16-2008, 03:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
He impressed me alot at the dev camp and im not surprised one bit by his season thus far. I always been high and positive on him despite all the critisism.

Honestly it's not even about the player itself it's just logical, how can you be down on a long term project after 2 years?
'Cause other players are doing better....didn't you know that the soonest you arrive in the NHL, the better you are....

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Old
11-17-2008, 12:49 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 24Cups View Post
On the ice, his game and physical stature is very reminiscent of Hainsey's. However, lucky for us he is grooming his game and growing a bigger body in the collegial ranks instead of the AHL where Hainsey used up his waiver recall status before he truly "emerged" as an NHL player.
What hurt Hainsey the most is that his head wasn't screwed on properly. Hainsey was never going to do anything in Montreal. Timmins loves the character players so hopefully Fischer takes a different course.

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Old
11-17-2008, 04:32 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Another 3-4 years to wait before seeing this guy in the NHL.

Claude Giroux is already doing fine in the NHL and is probably the next Phantom's guy to be called up by the Flyers.
Every team can look at a player who was drafted later in the draft and turned out better.... You cannot be perfect in the NHL draft. There are 29 teams who missed out on Sergei Kostitsyn with 5 or 6 picks each.... those same 29 teams also missed out on Matt D'agostini.

Timmins consistently gets us great prospects... that is undeniable... We will have a high prospect or two that will bust... its unavoidable.... But if you wanna complain about drafts.. .go look at the 90s.

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Old
11-17-2008, 07:54 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
'Cause other players are doing better....didn't you know that the soonest you arrive in the NHL, the better you are....
And the soonest you get tagged as streaky cause you didnt score in 5 games.

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Old
11-17-2008, 11:01 AM
  #34
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I hope he works out.

Not too many duds in the Timmins draft log.

Seriously though, he was picked sooooo early. In a soft draft year, we could have traded up and got a late first or early second round from somebody to snatch him up.

Nevertheless... good for David. Keep working.

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11-17-2008, 11:03 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I hope he works out.

Not too many duds in the Timmins draft log.

Seriously though, he was picked sooooo early. In a soft draft year, we could have traded up and got a late first or early second round from somebody to snatch him up.

Nevertheless... good for David. Keep working.
We did trade our pick to move down to get him... I believe it was with San Jose.

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Old
11-17-2008, 11:23 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
We did trade our pick to move down to get him... I believe it was with San Jose.
That move gave us Mathieu Carle.

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Old
11-17-2008, 12:00 PM
  #37
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It's a risk you take drafting players out of High School. You see this great package of skating, size, puck moving ability, defensive awareness. They look like the real deal, but then again they are playing High School competition, so what does this all mean taken into perspective?

Timmins saw a right-handed, fluid skating great passing 6'4 beast. Sure he's skinny but he's also going to College and probably following a rigorous training program to push him to around 210 lbs by the time he gets out of there. He gets to the AHL and keeps putting on weight hopefully get around 215-220 lbs. Now you have a 6'4 220 lbs defenceman that can skate and make crisp passes. Wow.

It's all about potential in drafting (duh). Whether another team saw this or not is a risk you need to take. The other defencemen picked around Fischer did not have this all-around capability. They were either offensive dmen (Sanguinetti, Vishnevskiy) or defensive dmen (Wishart, Mitera). Right now it's hard to judge where Fischer stands with all of them considering he's a late bloomer.

Same thing was done with McDonagh the year after. Take a flyer on a High School kid who is not scouted as heavily as others, shows this great package again. He's the 4th defenceman taken in the draft, 11 in total in the 1st round. But right now he's looking like the 2nd best after Alzner. Looks like a homerun.

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Old
11-17-2008, 12:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It's a risk you take drafting players out of High School. You see this great package of skating, size, puck moving ability, defensive awareness. They look like the real deal, but then again they are playing High School competition, so what does this all mean taken into perspective?

Timmins saw a right-handed, fluid skating great passing 6'4 beast. Sure he's skinny but he's also going to College and probably following a rigorous training program to push him to around 210 lbs by the time he gets out of there. He gets to the AHL and keeps putting on weight hopefully get around 215-220 lbs. Now you have a 6'4 220 lbs defenceman that can skate and make crisp passes. Wow.

It's all about potential in drafting (duh). Whether another team saw this or not is a risk you need to take. The other defencemen picked around Fischer did not have this all-around capability. They were either offensive dmen (Sanguinetti, Vishnevskiy) or defensive dmen (Wishart, Mitera). Right now it's hard to judge where Fischer stands with all of them considering he's a late bloomer.

Same thing was done with McDonagh the year after. Take a flyer on a High School kid who is not scouted as heavily as others, shows this great package again. He's the 4th defenceman taken in the draft, 11 in total in the 1st round. But right now he's looking like the 2nd best after Alzner. Looks like a homerun.
Nice post Sean.

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Old
11-17-2008, 12:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
We did trade our pick to move down to get him... I believe it was with San Jose.

We could have kept that first pick, and done something else to get him at the same spot. That was my point (although honestly, I did not remember--good post)

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11-17-2008, 12:38 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
It's a risk you take drafting players out of High School. You see this great package of skating, size, puck moving ability, defensive awareness. They look like the real deal, but then again they are playing High School competition
And thanks to the NCAA rule change, you have to take that risk now, cause if you don't, they likely won't be there for drafting after their freshman year is over.

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Old
11-17-2008, 12:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Joey View Post
This guy reminds me alot like Hainsey. Tall, lanky, offense first yet struggling at it, soft, uses the stick more, and alot of people will think he's a bust for a very long time. Wasn't Hainsey also 25 when he nailed down an NHL job?
Fischer has much better character and intangibles. A poor work ethic and nightlife has kept Hainey at being a journeyman instead of a premier d-man.

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11-17-2008, 12:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Another 3-4 years to wait before seeing this guy in the NHL.

Claude Giroux is already doing fine in the NHL and is probably the next Phantom's guy to be called up by the Flyers.
So what's the big rush? I'd rather take a guy with high upside in the 1st round over a guy that will reach the NHL quickly. Giroux is a pretty good prospect but he wouldn't play ahead of the guys we have. Fischer could be a Bouwmeester type with hise size and mobility, guys like that are hard to come by and that was considered a weak draft.

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Old
11-17-2008, 01:04 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Nice post Sean.
Thanks.

I think when putting things into perspective you gain a huge appreciation for Timmins and his drafting. He seems to take risks in the 1st round, then follow up with safer picks later. Then he goes with European flyers in the later rounds.

In 2005 he picks Price in the 1st then Latendresse in the 2nd (was supposed to be a first rounder). Sergei Kostitsyn taken late.

2006 we get Fischer in the 1st then Carle, Maxwell in the 2nd, White in the 3rd. I believe Maxwell and White were both possible 1st rounders. Valentenko and Cepek late.

2007 we get McDonagh and Pacioretty in the 1st, Subban in the 2nd and Weber in the 3rd. Subban might have been a bit of a flyer too, I think Weber could have been ranked higher. Torp late.

Trade the 1st in 2008, get Kristo in the 2nd, Trunev late.

Timmins takes a homerun swing in the 1st. If they work out, damn we have ourselves a great player. If they don't, well we still got some nice picks in the 2nd and 3rd round. Much better than just playing it safe IMO.

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Old
11-17-2008, 01:52 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
And what is your point ? The Habs drafted Maxwell just ahead of Lucic. Another mistake.
If you are so good and would have picked these other guys why are you not the head scout in Montreal?

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Old
11-17-2008, 02:19 PM
  #45
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All I know is that the Q most step up in developing big, strong Ds like the US does. Danny Dubé was raising a good point in that we've got all the best specialists in the World for our goalies yet nothing for the Ds and forwards. No wonder the goalies have gotten better and better and we've seen a drastic drop in scoring in the NHL for instance. It seems to me one position improved a lot more than the others.

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Old
11-17-2008, 02:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
If you are so good and would have picked these other guys why are you not the head scout in Montreal?
AK-46 was picked 10th overall in the 2003 draft. The Candiens could have picked Mike Richards, Parise, Jeff Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Webber etc.

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Old
11-17-2008, 02:39 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by dopeboys99 View Post
AK-46 was picked 10th overall in the 2003 draft. The Candiens could have picked Mike Richards, Parise, Jeff Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Webber etc.
And the Rangers could have picked them instead of Hugh Jessiman. Who cares? Hindsight is 20/20. It's not like Andrei is a bad player either.

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Old
11-17-2008, 02:44 PM
  #48
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Wasn't Lucic projected as a future 4th liner who could fight before his breakout season, where he scored 30 goals in the WHL on his way to the Memorial Cup, after being drafted?

It's funny to come back and looking at which other players we could have drafted. They all stay the same. That is why they will be better than those taken after them, but worse then those taken before them.

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Old
11-17-2008, 02:45 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dopeboys99 View Post
AK-46 was picked 10th overall in the 2003 draft. The Candiens could have picked Mike Richards, Parise, Jeff Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Webber etc.

All NHL teams should fire their scouts. They all missed the boat on Lidstrom S.Kostystyn Markov Belfour Joseph Zetterberg Datsyuk and many other players...what a dumb profession.

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Old
11-17-2008, 02:50 PM
  #50
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All NHL teams should fire their scouts. They all missed the boat on Lidstrom S.Kostystyn Markov Belfour Joseph Zetterberg Datsyuk and many other players...what a dumb profession.
Oh and Robitaille, and Patrick Roy, and and and...

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