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Martin Ordered To Make Playoffs, Sign Jaybo AND Cut $3 Mil In Payroll

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Old
11-16-2008, 01:02 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
So does Cohen enjoy ruining a team once it gets hope, to only let it start over again? Come on, Martin is starting do some good and he wants to throw ridiculous demands on him? Cohen is a terrible owner, and should leave Martin alone. Stick to what you know Cohen, sell the team to Ballsillie, you have no clue man.
Find an owner other than Balsille...I like my Panthers in South Florida.

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11-16-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
You're absolutely right, which is what could give Garrioch the free ride to throw out such a sensationalized rumor.

IMO, if Cohen has truly reverted to old ways, he would be belligerent enough to just come out and publicly demand something like this.
Heh, maybe. Maybe it will come out soon. I'm just really not suprised at all by this rumor though.

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11-16-2008, 01:17 PM
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All I'm saying is that, if it is indeed true, I am happy that S-O-M-E-O-N-E has come out and openly demanded the playoffs from within the organization. Enough of "our goal is to make the playoffs", now at least there is some pressure to make it happen, rather than just talking about the same crap over and over. Nothing else has worked and I think this is a good approach.

I don't necessarily agree with forcing Martin to re-sign Bouwmeester because like Martin says, if he thinks a transaction will make the team better, then he'll pull the trigger and I agree with that. Cutting the payroll by 3 million probably has something to do with the economy and the fact that we have an excess of defenceman making too much money to be playing in the 3rd pairing. Right now, it would be stupid to get rid of scratch or whoever because the injury to Allen leaves a huge hole. But when Allen returns I would be totally in favour of trading scratch or murphy or welch.

All i know is that there has been too much talk and not enough action and I am pleasantly surprised if this report is true. I am not saying I like Cohen imposing on someone else's responsibilities, but someone needed to do it and at least it shows that he wants to see some success.

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11-16-2008, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Find an owner other than Balsille...I like my Panthers in South Florida.
My thought is, it would be best for this franchise to be moved out of South Florida. It may sound bad, but honestly I think with the media and fan pressure up in Canada, this team would have to perform, instead of the luxury of taking nights off in south Florida which they are sadly accustomed to.

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11-16-2008, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
My thought is, it would be best for this franchise to be moved out of South Florida. It may sound bad, but honestly I think with the media and fan pressure up in Canada, this team would have to perform, instead of the luxury of taking nights off in south Florida which they are sadly accustomed to.
That's not best. That's HORRIBLE thinking. I'm a fan of this team because it's south Florida, not because of who's on it. I love the team and I'd likely stay interested, but my loyalties would quickly switch to the Lightning. That would make the whole damn experiment here a joke.

People not going to games should be pressure enough. I've said before and I'll say it again, noone goes because they KEEP losing, not because they're a hockey team in South Florida and noone loves the game. My parents refuse to go until they put together a winning franchise, they're tired of paying for losers.

Sorry, but that's terrible thinking.

i also don't buy into the whole "we're a team in Canada and the pressure here is great, so we HAVE to win," blah, blah, blah. If that were true the Leafs would have won the Cup in the last 40 years. In fact, I think it's that crap that's helped keep them away from the Cup.

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11-16-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
That's not best. That's HORRIBLE thinking. I'm a fan of this team because it's south Florida, not because of who's on it. I love the team and I'd likely stay interested, but my loyalties would quickly switch to the Lightning. That would make the whole damn experiment here a joke.

People not going to games should be pressure enough. I've said before and I'll say it again, noone goes because they KEEP losing, not because they're a hockey team in South Florida and noone loves the game. My parents refuse to go until they put together a winning franchise, they're tired of paying for losers.

Sorry, but that's terrible thinking.

i also don't buy into the whole "we're a team in Canada and the pressure here is great, so we HAVE to win," blah, blah, blah. If that were true the Leafs would have won the Cup in the last 40 years. In fact, I think it's that crap that's helped keep them away from the Cup.
The leafs are definitely straightening out though, definitely going in the right direction there. I want to see this team succeed, and yes it'd be cool to see them succeed in South Florida. Will it happen? Since when has no fans in the arena been pressure to do anything besides make retarded moves? Like the ones mentioned in this thread. And I don't think media and fan pressure kept the leafs away from the cup, I think it was JFJ who did that.

I do think fan and media pressure would help the Weisses and the Hortons to perform though, definitely. I'm sorry if you disagree but Florida is a team that is plagued with the notion of mediocrity is acceptable, DeBoer is trying to change it, and I give him credit for that. Florida hasn't been pressured to do anything in a long time. And I do believe it is a problem. Only thing this team has been pressured to do is make sure they don't get screwed by trading a star away.

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11-16-2008, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Montsy14 View Post
But when Allen returns I would be totally in favour of trading scratch or murphy or welch.
But, when(or if) Allen returns, it'll be at the end of the season, and by then we won't owe Skratch 2.4 mil anymore. We'll have already paid him most of his salary by that point. Welch only makes 700K and Murphy 800K, and he was already placed on waivers and cleared. If we want to clear 3 mil, then the most logical choices would be some combination of Kreps, Skrastins, Olesz, and Boynton.

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11-16-2008, 01:50 PM
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Honestly, at this point I don't care if the Panthers move to Siberia, as long as we get rid of this moron of an owner and get an owner who knows hockey and how to run a team. For the first 11 seasons of this franchise's existence, I lived in another state, so I'm used to being far away from my team. It'll be hard for those who've lived in Florida for the entire existence of the franchise, but IMO it might be the best thing for the team.

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11-16-2008, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
The leafs are definitely straightening out though, definitely going in the right direction there. I want to see this team succeed, and yes it'd be cool to see them succeed in South Florida. Will it happen? Since when has no fans in the arena been pressure to do anything besides make retarded moves? Like the ones mentioned in this thread. And I don't think media and fan pressure kept the leafs away from the cup, I think it was JFJ who did that.

I do think fan and media pressure would help the Weisses and the Hortons to perform though, definitely. I'm sorry if you disagree but Florida is a team that is plagued with the notion of mediocrity is acceptable, DeBoer is trying to change it, and I give him credit for that. Florida hasn't been pressured to do anything in a long time. And I do believe it is a problem. Only thing this team has been pressured to do is make sure they don't get screwed by trading a star away.
JFJ wasn't there for 40 years.

Disagree, it's dumb. They were put here, they're Florida's team, they need to learn to win. Fan "pressure" and media "pressure" is a myth, would like to see someone actually prove it. How many people here care about them if they're not in Florida? Why allow those who think there shouldn't be a team here win?

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous mindset to have. I can't believe you're remotely serious, let alone actually serious.

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11-16-2008, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
JFJ wasn't there for 40 years.

Disagree, it's dumb. They were put here, they're Florida's team, they need to learn to win. Fan "pressure" and media "pressure" is a myth, would like to see someone actually prove it. How many people here care about them if they're not in Florida? Why allow those who think there shouldn't be a team here win?

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous mindset to have. I can't believe you're remotely serious, let alone actually serious.
I know JFJ wasn't there for fourty years. Instead of pointing out the most underachieving franchise in Canada, why not point out Montreal, Ottawa, Calgary. How many people care about this team, when they are in Florida right now? Not many honestly. The dwindling fan base supports that. You've pointed it out yourself in an earlier post, that no one goes because they lose. What does that tell you about the culture in south Florida? Compare that to Toronto. The economy only hurts this franchise even more.

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11-16-2008, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
I know JFJ wasn't there for fourty years. Instead of pointing out the most underachieving franchise in Canada, why not point out Montreal, Ottawa, Calgary. How many people care about this team, when they are in Florida right now? Not many honestly. The dwindling fan base supports that. You've pointed it out yourself in an earlier post, that no one goes because they lose. What does that tell you about the culture in south Florida? Compare that to Toronto. The economy only hurts this franchise even more.
OK, let's look at the other franchises up there. Ottawa struggled for many years before Martin showed up and still haven't won the Cup. Calgary's not exactly doing great this season, and that's with Kipper, Iginla, and Phanuef. Montreal's not won the Cup since '93. I'd take competitveness and seeing the playoffs, but I think everyone wants the Cup. They also couldn't support Winnepeg and another northern market, Hartford, had their team moved. How'd pressure help them? My point on people not attending games was that they are doing what you're talking about, not supporting a losing franchise. Thought that was clear.

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11-16-2008, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
JFJ wasn't there for 40 years.

Disagree, it's dumb. They were put here, they're Florida's team, they need to learn to win. Fan "pressure" and media "pressure" is a myth, would like to see someone actually prove it. How many people here care about them if they're not in Florida? Why allow those who think there shouldn't be a team here win?

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous mindset to have. I can't believe you're remotely serious, let alone actually serious.
I agree with you Laus. I like this team because they are in South Florida. If I don't get the opportunity to go to a game every now and then (it's a long drive), and watch them on FSN, then I really have no reason to cheer for their success. It would be such a stupid move by ownership.

Look at any teams that have relocated, in any sport. They all burnt their bridges with their fanbases, and assumed that things would be better in another city, and in most cases things were just as bad in the new city. You could move this team anywhere, but unless you change the way the organization is run, year in and year out, you will see the same bad attendance after 5,6,7,8 maybe years without icing a competative team. How long do you think those Sonics or whatever the hell they are called now are going to fill an arena with that pathetic team they have?

Reallistically, there aren't too many places to move the team with a bigger potential market. Unless the NHL moves them to Toronto, I just don't see it.

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11-16-2008, 03:10 PM
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GR has the story in his blog:
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers/

He says the story has a "touch of truth" to it.

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11-16-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
OK, let's look at the other franchises up there. Ottawa struggled for many years before Martin showed up and still haven't won the Cup. Calgary's not exactly doing great this season, and that's with Kipper, Iginla, and Phanuef. Montreal's not won the Cup since '93. I'd take competitveness and seeing the playoffs, but I think everyone wants the Cup. They also couldn't support Winnepeg and another northern market, Hartford, had their team moved. How'd pressure help them? My point on people not attending games was that they are doing what you're talking about, not supporting a losing franchise. Thought that was clear.
Oh it was extremely clear, and I guess you missed my point. It's a problem. And I'll say it again, it speaks loudly of the culture in South Florida, surrounding hockey. Toronto has been sold out each losing year and will probably be sold out as long as they are in existence, something Florida could only dream about. Florida is not passionate about hockey and I'm sorry if you can't accept that fact, same goes for Tennessee and Atlanta, as well as Phoenix more than likely. The difference in those canadian teams, is that they are a hell of a lot more competitive than this team is, and they find ways to stay competitive. They also don't have the financial strains this team has. Moving the franchise to Canada will immediately give this team a fan base that is not laughable. Did you know before the deal for the Preds in Hamilton fell through, they sold 15,000 season tickets? Don't you think that is pretty amazing? That was before it was even official. The NHL is bent on making hockey work in America, mostly in the southern markets. No use cramming a failing product down peoples throats if they don't like the sport in the first place. Moving Florida to a canadian market would help this team financially from the get go. Cohen wouldn't even have to think about cutting the damn pay role by 3 mil or worry about non existent ticket sales.

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11-16-2008, 03:11 PM
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I agree with you Laus. I like this team because they are in South Florida. If I don't get the opportunity to go to a game every now and then (it's a long drive), and watch them on FSN, then I really have no reason to cheer for their success. It would be such a stupid move by ownership.

Look at any teams that have relocated, in any sport. They all burnt their bridges with their fanbases, and assumed that things would be better in another city, and in most cases things were just as bad in the new city. You could move this team anywhere, but unless you change the way the organization is run, year in and year out, you will see the same bad attendance after 5,6,7,8 maybe years without icing a competative team. How long do you think those Sonics or whatever the hell they are called now are going to fill an arena with that pathetic team they have?

Reallistically, there aren't too many places to move the team with a bigger potential market. Unless the NHL moves them to Toronto, I just don't see it.
Actually, I disagree. If the team moved to Hamilton, I think it'd definitely sell out every night or almost every night, even if the team was still bad. Yes, even in Hamilton. Canadian cities don't need to have their team doing well to show up to games. They'll show up regardless.

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11-16-2008, 03:20 PM
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GR has the story in his blog:
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers/

He says the story has a "touch of truth" to it.
Well, he doesn't exactly confirm it, but he does agree that expecting Martin to meet all three of those demands is an impossible request.

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11-16-2008, 03:23 PM
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I don't think this is true...Cohen just did a 360 on what he has been building up and that is that he wasn't going to be involved in the hockey part of the franchise.
So he reaffirmed that he won't get involved in the hockey part? I disagree, I think this is him getting involved.

And yeah, this demand is basically impossible.

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11-16-2008, 03:29 PM
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So he reaffirmed that he won't get involved in the hockey part? I disagree, I think this is him getting involved.

And yeah, this demand is basically impossible.
No, what gocatsgo538 is saying is that if the Garrioch report is true, then Cohen is going back on his word that he would stay out of hockey operations.

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11-16-2008, 03:36 PM
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Oh it was extremely clear, and I guess you missed my point. It's a problem. And I'll say it again, it speaks loudly of the culture in South Florida, surrounding hockey. Toronto has been sold out each losing year and will probably be sold out as long as they are in existence, something Florida could only dream about. Florida is not passionate about hockey and I'm sorry if you can't accept that fact, same goes for Tennessee and Atlanta, as well as Phoenix more than likely. The difference in those canadian teams, is that they are a hell of a lot more competitive than this team is, and they find ways to stay competitive. They also don't have the financial strains this team has. Moving the franchise to Canada will immediately give this team a fan base that is not laughable. Did you know before the deal for the Preds in Hamilton fell through, they sold 15,000 season tickets? Don't you think that is pretty amazing? That was before it was even official. The NHL is bent on making hockey work in America, mostly in the southern markets. No use cramming a failing product down peoples throats if they don't like the sport in the first place. Moving Florida to a canadian market would help this team financially from the get go. Cohen wouldn't even have to think about cutting the damn pay role by 3 mil or worry about non existent ticket sales.
I'm not stupid, so don't try to paint me as such, I greatly resent that. You're twisting my words around to fit your point. I've said that they'll have more fans at the arena, sorry if you can't accept that. Idon't give a damn how many tickets they sold up there, I'm a fan of the FLORIDA panthers, not the hamilton whatevers. If Cohen would butt his fat nose out of things, perhaps this team would win more. So far, everytime he's stuck his nose in, it hasn't worked. Not sure how you can say you're a fan of this team and then be remotely OK with it moving on. That's just stupid, imo. It's not going anywhere anyway, so this is a dumb conversation. Let's leave it at that, the team's not going anywhere in the near future, no matter how high your hopes are.

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11-16-2008, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
My thought is, it would be best for this franchise to be moved out of South Florida. It may sound bad, but honestly I think with the media and fan pressure up in Canada, this team would have to perform, instead of the luxury of taking nights off in south Florida which they are sadly accustomed to.


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11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
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I'm not stupid, so don't try to paint me as such, I greatly resent that. You're twisting my words around to fit your point. I've said that they'll have more fans at the arena, sorry if you can't accept that. Idon't give a damn how many tickets they sold up there, I'm a fan of the FLORIDA panthers, not the hamilton whatevers. If Cohen would butt his fat nose out of things, perhaps this team would win more. So far, everytime he's stuck his nose in, it hasn't worked. Not sure how you can say you're a fan of this team and then be remotely OK with it moving on. That's just stupid, imo. It's not going anywhere anyway, so this is a dumb conversation. Let's leave it at that, the team's not going anywhere in the near future, no matter how high your hopes are.
Of course they will have more fans at the arena if they win. Because Florida is a fair weather state. That's not good, this team needs a steady fan base. I agree with you that Cohen should keep his head out of hockey affairs. And when the financial state of the franchise starts imposing on how this franchise should be ran and who stays and who goes, then that is a problem, again. It's like Nashville version two. Don't criticize me for disagreeing with you. Seriously, I'm just as much a fan as you are, and you have no business attacking me like so. Especially when you say you will support the TAMPA BAY Lightning, if the panthers moved. Give me a break man.

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11-16-2008, 03:48 PM
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Oh it was extremely clear, and I guess you missed my point. It's a problem. And I'll say it again, it speaks loudly of the culture in South Florida, surrounding hockey. Toronto has been sold out each losing year and will probably be sold out as long as they are in existence, something Florida could only dream about. Florida is not passionate about hockey and I'm sorry if you can't accept that fact, same goes for Tennessee and Atlanta, as well as Phoenix more than likely. The difference in those canadian teams, is that they are a hell of a lot more competitive than this team is, and they find ways to stay competitive. They also don't have the financial strains this team has. Moving the franchise to Canada will immediately give this team a fan base that is not laughable. Did you know before the deal for the Preds in Hamilton fell through, they sold 15,000 season tickets? Don't you think that is pretty amazing? That was before it was even official. The NHL is bent on making hockey work in America, mostly in the southern markets. No use cramming a failing product down peoples throats if they don't like the sport in the first place. Moving Florida to a canadian market would help this team financially from the get go. Cohen wouldn't even have to think about cutting the damn pay role by 3 mil or worry about non existent ticket sales.
your theory is so flawed it's laughable.

you're spewing the same garbage traditionalists up north consistently throw as a need for relocation but none of it holds any merit. florida's lack of success has nothing to do with the "culture" in this market - it has to do with the "culture" of the organization - something that would persist regardless of whether or not they play in sunrise or ontario.

carolina had no problem winning in a similar market. tampa had no problem. nashville has had consistent success as well. anaheim is no different, especially pre-stanley cup where the pond was more than half-empty any game.

it has nothing to do with the market. nothing.. you are using it as a crutch for the failures of management while ignorant northerners use it as fuel for relocation talk, regardless of how irrelevant it really is. notice how anaheim suddenly improved when brian burke/randy carlyle were brought in? notice how the same happened in tampa with torts (and feaster...although he was a moron)....same in carolina with laviolette?

deboer is trying to do the same here.....but it doesn't happen instantly.

you're so far off here it's not even funny so if i were you, i'd quit now before you dig yourself into a hole you can't get out of. i'll never understand how people can be so misguided and delusional but to each his own.

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11-16-2008, 03:48 PM
  #48
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I'm not stupid, so don't try to paint me as such, I greatly resent that. You're twisting my words around to fit your point. I've said that they'll have more fans at the arena, sorry if you can't accept that. Idon't give a damn how many tickets they sold up there, I'm a fan of the FLORIDA panthers, not the hamilton whatevers. If Cohen would butt his fat nose out of things, perhaps this team would win more. So far, everytime he's stuck his nose in, it hasn't worked. Not sure how you can say you're a fan of this team and then be remotely OK with it moving on. That's just stupid, imo. It's not going anywhere anyway, so this is a dumb conversation. Let's leave it at that, the team's not going anywhere in the near future, no matter how high your hopes are.
Well, I resent that, I'd be OK with it moving, and I'd be offended with anyone saying I'm not a fan of this team. Let's not question eachother's fandom here, that's not going to get us anywhere.

I will say, IF, and it's a big if, the BOG does let Balsillie buy the team, he'll buy out the lease and pay whatever he has to pay to get the Panthers out of Florida, and laugh like he's throwing away pocket change. That kind of money won't bother him at all. I wouldn't definitively say the team's not going anywhere. Nor do I think that RIM being at the Tampa game is a mere coincidence. And if you couple that with this report of Cohen looking to shed 3 mil in payroll, the two fit together.

BTW, I don't think he was trying to paint you as stupid at all.

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11-16-2008, 04:01 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
Of course they will have more fans at the arena if they win. Because Florida is a fair weather state. That's not good, this team needs a steady fan base. I agree with you that Cohen should keep his head out of hockey affairs. And when the financial state of the franchise starts imposing on how this franchise should be ran and who stays and who goes, then that is a problem, again. It's like Nashville version two. Don't criticize me for disagreeing with you. Seriously, I'm just as much a fan as you are, and you have no business attacking me like so. Especially when you say you will support the TAMPA BAY Lightning, if the panthers moved. Give me a break man.
lol, oh, I'm wrong for not supporting a team that's thrown it's hands up and said it's moving, but you're Ok with them moving? Where'd I attack you? Pretty sure I didn't, except that I questioned your's, and sorry MBouw, but anyone who's OK with the team moving. So, I attacked your stance, not you. I don't care what anyone says, thinks, or how they feel, I'm a fan of the FLORIDA Panthers, not them whereever else, and the last thing I want is any elitist northerner having the chance to laugh at the team being here at all. Basically, the whole point you're trying to have about the team possibly being more competitive up north is as obnoxious as they all are. You're literally supporting their points. How many people were with the team in '96? of course this is a bandwagon area, that should be clear to all of us, but have you seen the Marlins and Heat attendance compared to the Panthers even now? And that's with both teams having won a championship. We're also right there against the cap, so how much does money really have to do with anything? Again, all that "pressure" from Canadian fans and media hasn't yielded a Cup in 15 years. To me, that makes all the pressure pointless.


Last edited by Laus723: 11-16-2008 at 04:09 PM.
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11-16-2008, 04:10 PM
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We need to direct this energy towards Cohen & Friends, tbqh.

GR mentioning there's some truth to Garrioch's report has me worried now. Every time Cohen interferes, my heart skips a beat.

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