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Martin Ordered To Make Playoffs, Sign Jaybo AND Cut $3 Mil In Payroll

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Old
11-16-2008, 10:18 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
They will still be the same franchise. And people questioning others' fandom just because they'd be OK with the team moving is ridiculous. Not every Panthers fan lives in South Florida or likes the team just because they are in Florida.
I disagree.

I am trying to understand how you can be a fan and be for the team moving? Let's say the Panther's move. That means a new owner, new management, a new history, a new name, a new Jersey, and new fanbase. What's left? A favorite player? The roster is almost completely different every few years. What is your loyalty to if it's not the logo on the front of the Jersey? Why are you a Panthers fan? I don't understand. If it's not the logo, the name, the location, or the history, why not just pretend the team moved to say Boston and start following the Bruins?

While "technically" it might be the same franchise, in reality it would not be. It would be one franchise being dismantled and a new "expansion" one taking its players. I also think it is a betrayal to the majority of fans who do live in South Florida, and are funding the team for fans to favor the team to move.

Do you every hear any one mention the Whalers or the Jets? When a team moves, the old team and its traditions die.


Last edited by Panthers_Fan: 11-16-2008 at 10:23 PM.
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11-17-2008, 03:19 AM
  #77
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How long till Cohen names himself GM

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11-17-2008, 03:23 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by jal2155 View Post
The targets that Cohen has defined makes it obvious that he wants Martin out. Excuse my pessimism, but if we can't get the results we want with our current budget, how can we expect to do so with a reduced budget? Finally, how can we demand the GM to sign a player, when signing is at the player's discretion?

It thrills me to see ambition reaching a complacency ridden franchise. But this is the wrong kind of ambition. The ambition we need must begin in the locker room; players need to feel "the fire in the belly", so to speak, and develop an insatiable appetite to win. In other words: we need bottom-up ambition. The ambition that Cohen seeks to impose (top-down) will translate merely to a negative sentiment (in the form of pressure, poor decision making, and a negative attitude) that will trickle down through management, coaching, and ultimately the players. Consequently, from the perspective of the players, the beautiful and exciting sport that they grew up loving will become a tedious and repetitive job. And that is not the environment that breeds a successful team.
I cant really agree with that. Sure the guy knows little about the sport, but at least he has apparently come out and said that he wants to make the playoffs. What is so wrong with that? At least someone in this organization, albeit the owner, came out and caused a stir. Maybe it puts a little more pressure on Martin, DeBoer, and the team, maybe it doesnt, but something has to be done. This team has no motivation it seems. They play great one night, sit back the next. Its good that someone came out and put pressure on the team, because their play is unacceptable. We are a good enough team to win more games than we lose, its all mental with them now.

And there is nothing wrong with the owner coming out and questioning his team, we see it often in sports. The guy OWNS the team, and he has the right to say something, especially when he is getting hit financially from the teams poor performance. We have seen similar statements from owners like Jerry Jones, Steinbrenner, even down here with Loria and Arison. We arent in a city like Toronto, Montreal, etc., so we arent going to see the pressure on the team from reporters, fans, etc. Somehow, this team needs to get the fire lit under them, and this is a way...hopefully.

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11-17-2008, 07:54 AM
  #79
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The statement by Cohen if true continues the one thing that we are consistent at...
Changing.
We change coaches, GM's, philosophy, Cohen says, he's going to stay out of hockey decisions, then he makes comments about what he wants to do.
I don't get it, and the 3 demands combined do not make any sense at all.

Jaybo does not want to stay, and we have not been able to force him to, so let's make a trade NOW!! Get a top flight forward or two and let's improve the offense. We'll be fine defensively.

Eliminate 3 million, and sign Jay, do the math Alan, it's not reasonable. Make the playoffs with this roster? You can forget it. Even if you sign Jay, this team as is will not go anywhere!

We also need a team leader. I hate this 3 alternates garbarge. Isn't there someone who can do this?

Also, this team cannot move. I would be totally against it. If you put a winnig/competitive team out there that can start making the playoffs, you'll see the attendance rise.
Until then, we are going to finish 1-th to 12th in the conference.

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11-17-2008, 08:48 AM
  #80
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i think a lot of this is fabricated. it doesn't make sense!!!! sensationaalism in the press to get people to read ala eklund!!!!!

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11-17-2008, 09:19 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
How long till Cohen names himself GM
...GM, Head Coach, and starting Center

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11-17-2008, 10:11 AM
  #82
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This is in the rumors of the day section of the Sun, not much credibility there. Cutting payroll, trading Jay and making playoffs are things the ownership should want though, realistic or not.

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11-17-2008, 11:38 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I cant really agree with that. Sure the guy knows little about the sport, but at least he has apparently come out and said that he wants to make the playoffs. What is so wrong with that? At least someone in this organization, albeit the owner, came out and caused a stir. Maybe it puts a little more pressure on Martin, DeBoer, and the team, maybe it doesnt, but something has to be done. This team has no motivation it seems. They play great one night, sit back the next. Its good that someone came out and put pressure on the team, because their play is unacceptable. We are a good enough team to win more games than we lose, its all mental with them now.

And there is nothing wrong with the owner coming out and questioning his team, we see it often in sports. The guy OWNS the team, and he has the right to say something, especially when he is getting hit financially from the teams poor performance. We have seen similar statements from owners like Jerry Jones, Steinbrenner, even down here with Loria and Arison. We arent in a city like Toronto, Montreal, etc., so we arent going to see the pressure on the team from reporters, fans, etc. Somehow, this team needs to get the fire lit under them, and this is a way...hopefully.
You make a lot of good points; I agree with a lot of them. I mentioned in my post that I (like you) am glad to see someone finally lighting a fire under this team. Where we differ, though, is our analysis / reaction to the source / form of the criticism.

Still, you make a valid point: if the owner doesn't push this team (which has been complacent and unmotivated for the majority of this decade), then who will? It's a well-crafted argument, but I'm still not convinced, because, if I extended this level of involvement into the future, I doubt that players / coaching / management would continue to respond to it (assuming, of course, that they respond to it at all).

Good post.

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11-17-2008, 01:07 PM
  #84
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Being a fan of the Panthers is a lot like "Groundhog Day." Every year its the same sequence of events:

1. Ownership says we will make the playoffs this year
2. Young players do not improve / Injuries / Inconsistency
3. Panthers start losing games, fall in a deep hole
4. Threads about trade rumors / moving the team/ Martin argument
pop up on messageboards
5. Panthers go on February/March tear but do not make playoffs
6. Panthers **** up the draft pick / Mess up development of young
prospect
7. Ownership says we will make playoffs next year

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11-17-2008, 01:30 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
It really says something about the quality of his ownership when longtime fans are willing to have the team sold off at all costs, even if it means moving the Cats out of Florida.

IMO, it's not so much a case of giving in to the anti-South sentiment as it is wanting what's best for the players this organization has dicked around since Cohen took the helm.
This is where I was at a few yrs ago. I basically had to give up on the franchise instead but I've never been against the team moving out of Florida as well.
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I just don't understand how moving the team is possibly good for anyone or anything, it's sure as hell not good for the fans. Take VanMurph for example, yes he's been marketed like crazy, but if I can toot my friend's horn for a minute, it's well deserved. This guy just spent last week following the team from LA, to Phoenix, to Anaheim. He and a lot of others support this team immensely, why should they be left out? Why should they lose their team? They support this team tremendously, and likely more than some in the north support their's. Let's put a winning team together and keep Cohen's nose out of things, then see what happens.
Well it is possibly good for the rest of the league. The team is among the worst in both record and profitability (3rd to last in that category to Carolina and Phoenix last yr). Remember that there is revenue sharing and a team losing as much as Florida is a drain on the rest of the teams. Sure there are die-hard fans that will support a team regardless but the number of those type of fans in Florida can't possibly be as much as areas where hockey is ingrained from a young age, where they skate before they walk.
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Originally Posted by Panthers_Fan View Post
WTF is with this talk of people actually wanting the team to leave Florida???? How can a fan say this!! To me, this is flat out betrayal of the franchise and fans. You actually want the team to change it's name and move? I'd rather have this franchise miss the playoffs for the next decade then to see it move! If you want to be a fan of a good team just switch allegiances to a good team, but don't actually push for the team to move. IF they move, they are no longer the Florida Panthers, and there will NEVER be another Florida Panthers.
I had to switch allegiances...I got tired of the owner's stupidity and the team's ineffectiveness because of that. I actually had a conversation with Scott Luce during one yr's rookie camp and explained that to him. You could see it in his eyes that he understood but there's nothing he could do about it (though obviously he wished I felt differently). I told him that I'd only return as a fan once Cohen sold the team and was no longer part of the decision-making process. If it takes moving the team for that to happen, I'd be all for it!
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Nashville's problem hasn't been fan support, it's been big company support.
Interesting to note however, that Nashville isn't among the bottom teams as far as operating income (revenue less expenses) in the league. They only lost about $1.3 million last yr and year-over-year have been a team that does better than you'd expect. Check out the Forbes ranking and see how they're in the middle tier of teams based on operating income:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/31/...ns_Income.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
first of all - cohen's wallet is not empty. according to the sun-sen he made $9.1 million last year from sunrise sports and entertainment.

the panthers as a hockey operation lose about $3-5 million a year - but alan cohen is not losing money.
Actually according to Forbes magazine, they said that the team lost $9.4 million. So what you're saying is without the arena revenue from concerts and other events is what is keeping the team from moving. And it looks like the numbers show that he's maybe not doing quite as well as believed.
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I am trying to understand how you can be a fan and be for the team moving? Let's say the Panther's move. That means a new owner, new management, a new history, a new name, a new Jersey, and new fanbase. What's left? A favorite player? The roster is almost completely different every few years. What is your loyalty to if it's not the logo on the front of the Jersey? Why are you a Panthers fan? I don't understand. If it's not the logo, the name, the location, or the history, why not just pretend the team moved to say Boston and start following the Bruins?

While "technically" it might be the same franchise, in reality it would not be. It would be one franchise being dismantled and a new "expansion" one taking its players. I also think it is a betrayal to the majority of fans who do live in South Florida, and are funding the team for fans to favor the team to move.

Do you every hear any one mention the Whalers or the Jets? When a team moves, the old team and its traditions die.
Well I personally felt like the only way to continue supporting the team was without Cohen owning it. So if the team was sold and moved, then it would be a good thing to start fresh and shed the crappy attitude of the organization. Plus the team has been a drag on the rest of the league in terms of finances for years. I'm a hockey fan first-and-foremost before a fan of a team. And when I saw that this franchise was not a benefit to the league financially, I had to question whether it would be better for hockey to move the team. I think thats a fair view of things and not as extreme as you make it out to be. Since I felt like it would be too long before the team was sold and moved, I moved on myself to supporting other teams (since I'm a hockey fan first).
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...GM, Head Coach, and starting Center
Don't forget starting goalie and #1 d-man

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11-17-2008, 02:50 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
T I'm a hockey fan first-and-foremost before a fan of a team. And when I saw that this franchise was not a benefit to the league financially, I had to question whether it would be better for hockey to move the team. I think thats a fair view of things and not as extreme as you make it out to be. Since I felt like it would be too long before the team was sold and moved, I moved on myself to supporting other teams (since I'm a hockey fan first). Don't forget starting goalie and #1 d-man
While I don't agree with your view, I now understand where some people are coming from. I was getting the impression from some posts that people were fearing an Atlanta situation from Cohen's comments and as a result would rather see the team move then go through that which I think is absurd.

You think League first and team second which I can certainly respect with the hard economic times that face us.

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11-17-2008, 03:49 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
It's not so much about whether you're a fan or not, I wasn't thinking (if I did in fact do that), but I question anyone being OK with their favorite team moving. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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I disagree.

I am trying to understand how you can be a fan and be for the team moving? Let's say the Panther's move. That means a new owner, new management, a new history, a new name, a new Jersey, and new fanbase. What's left? A favorite player? The roster is almost completely different every few years. What is your loyalty to if it's not the logo on the front of the Jersey? Why are you a Panthers fan? I don't understand. If it's not the logo, the name, the location, or the history, why not just pretend the team moved to say Boston and start following the Bruins?

While "technically" it might be the same franchise, in reality it would not be. It would be one franchise being dismantled and a new "expansion" one taking its players. I also think it is a betrayal to the majority of fans who do live in South Florida, and are funding the team for fans to favor the team to move.

Do you every hear any one mention the Whalers or the Jets? When a team moves, the old team and its traditions die.
It's not like I'm picketing outside the BAC for the team to move. I'm just saying, if getting a new owner meant us having to move, then I'd be fine with it. I don't want the team to move. I want it to stay in SFL. But every time Cohen sticks his nose in, he screws things up royally. And now there's a rumor of him possibly doing it again. It's not so much that I 100% believe it, it's that it wouldn't surprise me if it were actually true, and part of me is just waiting to hear this come out from another, more credible source. He's done it more than once before, why should we ever feel secure that he's going to change? Especially with us being dead last, this is the time where I expect Cohen to go crazy and inch his fingers towards the trigger. I just don't feel comfortable with him as the owner. Can anyone really say they don't think we'd have made the playoffs already if Cohen had just left Dudley alone? And we'd probably still have Luongo too.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't mind a new owner, and if us moving is what it took, then I'd be fine with it.

New owner? Great. New management? So what. New history? Yeah, of course, but it would still be intertwined with the old one. New name and jersey? Idk, that's not really such a big deal to me as it would be to some others I guess. I just care about the franchise, they could wear pink and yellow polkadots for all I care. The reason I became a Panthers fan was because of the logo, but I've been one for 16 years now, I don't need the logo to keep me a fan anymore. I am a fan of the franchise, not the colors or the logo or the name. The franchise would not be dismantled and become an expansion team. It would still be the same franchise, I don't care how anyone tries to spin it. An expansion team is a totally new franchise born from nothing, that's not what it would be. No, you don't hear anyone mention the Whalers or the Jets because those teams don't play anymore. The Canes and Coyotes do. And a lot of the fans of the former teams are now fans of the new teams, same franchise though.

I'm not betraying anybody, I don't own the team nor do I have any control over it. If we move, we move, and I'd be fine with it. If we stay and become a more competitive team, I'd be much happier. Yes, the fans in South Florida fund the team, and I'm one of them. I'm not a STH because I live on the west coast, but I have poured my money into the team too. But I'm not going to keep pouring money into it to see this clown of an owner continually mess it up and be the main cause of it going nowhere. I hope he doesn't stick his nose in again and I hope we become competitive soon and we stay in Florida forever, I sincerely do. Don't think I want anything different.

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11-17-2008, 03:57 PM
  #88
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s_Income.html[/url]
Actually according to Forbes magazine, they said that the team lost $9.4 million. So what you're saying is without the arena revenue from concerts and other events is what is keeping the team from moving. And it looks like the numbers show that he's maybe not doing quite as well as believed.
i've read what forbes printed and i'm more inclined to believe the local media over them.

regardless of what the hockey ops are or arent, SSE as a whole supposedly made $9.1 million. that means alan cohen made $9.1 million. he sells the panthers, he loses control of the arena and that money is out the window.

and as far as the rest of your post....if you just "gave up" allegiances because of an owner...you were never a true fan to begin with. hawks fans that stayed through bill wirtz or bruins fans that stayed through jacobs. both of which are MUCH worse than what we have here.

cohen isn't a good owner but it isn't for a lack of effort. he has good intentions...he wants to win. he just doesnt have any idea on how to run a professional sports organization. GP's idea of hiring a "hockey czar" to run the organization from head to toe is likely the best solution to cohen's problem. the problem is....who is really a candidate? only scotty bowman or pierre lacroix come to mind.

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11-17-2008, 04:03 PM
  #89
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Considering how bad the team has been for so long, it's a wonder they have as much support as they do. If this team played in Boston, Chicago, New Jersey, St. Louis, Long Island or Pittsburgh, you would still see poor attendance. In those cases, it would be because they were smart fans who don't want to waste their money on a bad product. Since it's happening in Florida it must be because it's a bad market.

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11-17-2008, 06:57 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
regardless of what the hockey ops are or arent, SSE as a whole supposedly made $9.1 million. that means alan cohen made $9.1 million. he sells the panthers, he loses control of the arena and that money is out the window.
That's simple, arena stays, team leaves.

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11-17-2008, 10:38 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
i've read what forbes printed and i'm more inclined to believe the local media over them.

regardless of what the hockey ops are or arent, SSE as a whole supposedly made $9.1 million. that means alan cohen made $9.1 million. he sells the panthers, he loses control of the arena and that money is out the window.

and as far as the rest of your post....if you just "gave up" allegiances because of an owner...you were never a true fan to begin with. hawks fans that stayed through bill wirtz or bruins fans that stayed through jacobs. both of which are MUCH worse than what we have here.

cohen isn't a good owner but it isn't for a lack of effort. he has good intentions...he wants to win. he just doesnt have any idea on how to run a professional sports organization. GP's idea of hiring a "hockey czar" to run the organization from head to toe is likely the best solution to cohen's problem. the problem is....who is really a candidate? only scotty bowman or pierre lacroix come to mind.
You trust local media over a nationally published magazine?!?!???? Are you joking? Not only has Forbes been printing that report every yr for the past several yrs, but the local media is given their "facts" usually from the organization. So which one is more trustworthy...an independent review of the information or a self-serving statement of what everyone wants to believe??

Regardless, I feel like Cohen and the organization are taking advantage of the county since they were suppose to share in the revenues of the arena. But because the team loses so much money, the county never gets anything. Remove the financial albatross of the team and the arena makes at least $17 million a year!! Some of that money could be going towards other valuable public interest projects that would benefit more of the area than just a hockey team, as much as I hate to say that (the magic number is $14 million so the county should be getting its share of $3 million).

See I could understand from Wirtz' perspective because he wanted fans to come to the arena. Hockey really can only be appreciated live and he thought that broadcasting the games on TV would take away from that. Sure he had less altruistic motives and thought it would mean more money for himself. The situation in Boston was not all that different from Florida's for a time...inconsistencies in the front office and behind the bench led to poor results on the ice. The difference is that Boston is an original 6 team, loaded with history and several generations now have grown up watching the team. Florida is got maybe one generation of fans at this point.

I grew up watching teams like Detroit, the Islanders, and Chicago. I immediately supported a local team when the Panthers were awarded a franchise. But once Cohen's name was involved with the team, the state of the organization has not improved. Gone are the days of that hard-working team that made the SCFs, gone are the days of superstar Pavel Bure and his amazing speed and skill, and now, we're left with an organization without an identity. How is a fan suppose to relate to and support this team?? I could stand the losing...so long as there was a vision and everyone was on the same page regarding that vision. That's never happened since Cohen has owned the team (or it just changed so many times and haphazardly that I couldnt understand it). Can you tell me right now what the vision and identity of this team? Cause I can't see it for the life of me and I have tried to look from time to time.

What's that old saying...the road to hell is paved with good intentions! But you're right that Cohen has no idea how to run a professional sports franchise. He obviously needs to step back and hire someone to handle all the hockey-related ventures. He should only focus on the fan experience and business aspect of things. He wants to set a budget for player payroll...thats fine and should be expected. But saying who should stay and who should go is a decision that should be left to the hockey people like the GM.

A hockey czar might make things better or could make things worse (Alan Eagleson ring any bells??). No question, that there are limited guys you could trust to do the job. I know it might not be the most popular idea but I'd say Doug McLean would be a name to consider. He's linked to the team from the past, he's done the job as a hockey czar already in Columbus, and he's passionate about the sport. I think he could do the job as team president and making everyone accountable from GM to coach to players. Just IMHO

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11-17-2008, 11:55 PM
  #92
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You trust local media over a nationally published magazine?!?!???? Are you joking? Not only has Forbes been printing that report every yr for the past several yrs, but the local media is given their "facts" usually from the organization. So which one is more trustworthy...an independent review of the information or a self-serving statement of what everyone wants to believe??

Regardless, I feel like Cohen and the organization are taking advantage of the county since they were suppose to share in the revenues of the arena. But because the team loses so much money, the county never gets anything. Remove the financial albatross of the team and the arena makes at least $17 million a year!! Some of that money could be going towards other valuable public interest projects that would benefit more of the area than just a hockey team, as much as I hate to say that (the magic number is $14 million so the county should be getting its share of $3 million).

See I could understand from Wirtz' perspective because he wanted fans to come to the arena. Hockey really can only be appreciated live and he thought that broadcasting the games on TV would take away from that. Sure he had less altruistic motives and thought it would mean more money for himself. The situation in Boston was not all that different from Florida's for a time...inconsistencies in the front office and behind the bench led to poor results on the ice. The difference is that Boston is an original 6 team, loaded with history and several generations now have grown up watching the team. Florida is got maybe one generation of fans at this point.

I grew up watching teams like Detroit, the Islanders, and Chicago. I immediately supported a local team when the Panthers were awarded a franchise. But once Cohen's name was involved with the team, the state of the organization has not improved. Gone are the days of that hard-working team that made the SCFs, gone are the days of superstar Pavel Bure and his amazing speed and skill, and now, we're left with an organization without an identity. How is a fan suppose to relate to and support this team?? I could stand the losing...so long as there was a vision and everyone was on the same page regarding that vision. That's never happened since Cohen has owned the team (or it just changed so many times and haphazardly that I couldnt understand it). Can you tell me right now what the vision and identity of this team? Cause I can't see it for the life of me and I have tried to look from time to time.

What's that old saying...the road to hell is paved with good intentions! But you're right that Cohen has no idea how to run a professional sports franchise. He obviously needs to step back and hire someone to handle all the hockey-related ventures. He should only focus on the fan experience and business aspect of things. He wants to set a budget for player payroll...thats fine and should be expected. But saying who should stay and who should go is a decision that should be left to the hockey people like the GM.

A hockey czar might make things better or could make things worse (Alan Eagleson ring any bells??). No question, that there are limited guys you could trust to do the job. I know it might not be the most popular idea but I'd say Doug McLean would be a name to consider. He's linked to the team from the past, he's done the job as a hockey czar already in Columbus, and he's passionate about the sport. I think he could do the job as team president and making everyone accountable from GM to coach to players. Just IMHO
I don't think it's true, I think it's just a stupid rumor. I think it's pretty impossible to get the Panthers to the playoffs, but have to cut $3million in salary yet keep JBo (which I think he's as good as gone)

IF, IF Cohen does sell the team, why is it automatic that the team will be dismantled and moved somewhere's else?

Also, I don't think anyone can critisize the fans of the franchise, honestly, I remember watching games back then,and seeing them now on youtube, of Panther games at the Miami Arena,and it was sold out, same with last season,during the 7 game stretch, we were nearly sold out every game. I think the problem is ,like people keep saying, we always hear the same run around year after year about making the playoffs and wanting to win, but it never happens so people get fed up.
All I gotta say is look at Pitt, before Malkin,Crosby,Stall, and Fluery, they nearly were sold and moved somewheres else. Once those players were drafted, they sold out every game. All I'm saying is if our players such as Horton,showed up to every game, and we signed free agents who were good for the team, not all 3rd liners, then I think this team would make the playoffs every year and sell out games. We don't need a team of overpaid superstars like the Rangers, but we need players who mesh well together,like the Panthers 96 team. I think once we get some good complimentary players,we'll be ok

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11-18-2008, 01:07 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
That's simple, arena stays, team leaves.

JOL
what are you talking about? if the team leaves - cohen loses the lease. simple as that.

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11-18-2008, 01:18 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
You trust local media over a nationally published magazine?!?!???? Are you joking? Not only has Forbes been printing that report every yr for the past several yrs, but the local media is given their "facts" usually from the organization. So which one is more trustworthy...an independent review of the information or a self-serving statement of what everyone wants to believe??
forbes has been pleeeeeeeeeenty wrong before. i don't care enough to do the research - but they've been so inaccurate with alot of their reports that....

yeah, i'll trust the local media.

Quote:
Regardless, I feel like Cohen and the organization are taking advantage of the county since they were suppose to share in the revenues of the arena. But because the team loses so much money, the county never gets anything. Remove the financial albatross of the team and the arena makes at least $17 million a year!!
Cohen and the organization aren't taking advantage of anyone. Broward signed that lease to H. Wayne Huizenga. Cohen inherited it. do you expect him to break the lease because....uh....it's profitable for the org.? give me a break.



Quote:
See I could understand from Wirtz' perspective because he wanted fans to come to the arena. Hockey really can only be appreciated live and he thought that broadcasting the games on TV would take away from that. Sure he had less altruistic motives and thought it would mean more money for himself.


taking away home games from the fans is criminal. every sports organization wants fans to come to games and there's acceptable ways to go about making that happen.

defending what wirtz did is just asinine.


Quote:
The situation in Boston was not all that different from Florida's for a time...inconsistencies in the front office and behind the bench led to poor results on the ice. The difference is that Boston is an original 6 team, loaded with history and several generations now have grown up watching the team. Florida is got maybe one generation of fans at this point.
cohen's intentions are pure. he wants a winner, just doesn't know the right way to go about getting one.

jacobs is a sleezebag. big difference.


Quote:
I grew up watching teams like Detroit, the Islanders, and Chicago. I immediately supported a local team when the Panthers were awarded a franchise. But once Cohen's name was involved with the team, the state of the organization has not improved. Gone are the days of that hard-working team that made the SCFs, gone are the days of superstar Pavel Bure and his amazing speed and skill, and now, we're left with an organization without an identity. How is a fan suppose to relate to and support this team??
if you're a fan...you support the team, win-or-lose.

Quote:
I could stand the losing...so long as there was a vision and everyone was on the same page regarding that vision. That's never happened since Cohen has owned the team (or it just changed so many times and haphazardly that I couldnt understand it). Can you tell me right now what the vision and identity of this team? Cause I can't see it for the life of me and I have tried to look from time to time.
regardless, i'll support the team because i'm a fan of the team. i may not support the moves that they make or like the players on the ice or back the general manager...but i'm a panthers fan. when that jersey steps out on the ice, i support it. simple as that.

Quote:
What's that old saying...the road to hell is paved with good intentions! But you're right that Cohen has no idea how to run a professional sports franchise. He obviously needs to step back and hire someone to handle all the hockey-related ventures. He should only focus on the fan experience and business aspect of things. He wants to set a budget for player payroll...thats fine and should be expected. But saying who should stay and who should go is a decision that should be left to the hockey people like the GM.
i don't really buy what garrioch spews so quoting it as fact doesn't really add anything to your argument.

Quote:
A hockey czar might make things better or could make things worse (Alan Eagleson ring any bells??). No question, that there are limited guys you could trust to do the job. I know it might not be the most popular idea but I'd say Doug McLean would be a name to consider. He's linked to the team from the past, he's done the job as a hockey czar already in Columbus, and he's passionate about the sport. I think he could do the job as team president and making everyone accountable from GM to coach to players. Just IMHO

a hockey "czar" implies the guy is knowledgable and successful - neither of which fits maclean's description. he may have been a hockey czar in columbus, but he failed miserably.


Last edited by Acadmus: 11-18-2008 at 07:56 AM. Reason: calling another poster "bandwagoner"
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11-18-2008, 09:03 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
forbes has been pleeeeeeeeeenty wrong before. i don't care enough to do the research - but they've been so inaccurate with alot of their reports that....

yeah, i'll trust the local media.
Yeah except Forbes has been publishing that report for 10 yrs now! They'd likely have been called out a lot sooner on any inaccuracies of the report. I believe they get some of their information straight from the league offices too.

Heck Forbes even says in the article itself that other media reports are inflating what organizations are worth...
Quote:
"Media reports saying the Edmonton Oilers and Nashville Predators were sold for $200 million and $193 million, respectively, are not accurate. The enterprise values (equity plus net debt) of these deals for the franchise and arena leases were really $170 million and $174 million, respectively."
Enjoy trusting the local media who is not going to be accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
Cohen and the organization aren't taking advantage of anyone. Broward signed that lease to H. Wayne Huizenga. Cohen inherited it. do you expect him to break the lease because....uh....it's profitable for the org.? give me a break.
Well I wonder if Huizenga had still owned the team whether things would've been different and the county might've been getting some money from the arena. Regardless, no I dont expect him to break the lease because its profitable. But if another owner came in, yes I do expect them to break the lease and probably move the team. The arena would then go back under control of the county where it would benefit more people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
taking away home games from the fans is criminal. every sports organization wants fans to come to games and there's acceptable ways to go about making that happen.

defending what wirtz did is just asinine.
I didnt defend Wirtz...I just said I understood what he was doing. I didnt say I agreed with him. There's a big difference...seeing and understanding another person's point of view can keep you objective and more knowledgeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
cohen's intentions are pure. he wants a winner, just doesn't know the right way to go about getting one.

jacobs is a sleezebag. big difference.
But the thing is...Boston has had success recently in these last 2 seasons. BIG difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
if you're a fan...you support the team, win-or-lose.

regardless, i'll support the team because i'm a fan of the team. i may not support the moves that they make or like the players on the ice or back the general manager...but i'm a panthers fan. when that jersey steps out on the ice, i support it. simple as that.
Being a fan of the sport supercedes being a fan of the team in my view of the world. If the moves of the front office of the team cause damage to the sport than thats my choice to not support them. And in the end, that is every fans' choice...doesnt make them any more or less of a fan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trombone Olesz View Post
i don't really buy what garrioch spews so quoting it as fact doesn't really add anything to your argument.
Where have I quoted Garrioch to support any of my stances??? I dont even believe all of what Garrioch is saying. However, I do believe at least 2 of the things he mentioned has been stated...but still contradict each other, depending on how you look at it (make the playoffs and cut payroll). If FL deals off Bouwmeester and gets some scoring forwards in return, then both of those mandates could come to fruition.

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11-25-2008, 08:07 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
I don't think it's true, I think it's just a stupid rumor. I think it's pretty impossible to get the Panthers to the playoffs, but have to cut $3million in salary yet keep JBo (which I think he's as good as gone)

IF, IF Cohen does sell the team, why is it automatic that the team will be dismantled and moved somewhere's else?

Also, I don't think anyone can critisize the fans of the franchise, honestly, I remember watching games back then,and seeing them now on youtube, of Panther games at the Miami Arena,and it was sold out, same with last season,during the 7 game stretch, we were nearly sold out every game. I think the problem is ,like people keep saying, we always hear the same run around year after year about making the playoffs and wanting to win, but it never happens so people get fed up.
All I gotta say is look at Pitt, before Malkin,Crosby,Stall, and Fluery, they nearly were sold and moved somewheres else. Once those players were drafted, they sold out every game. All I'm saying is if our players such as Horton,showed up to every game, and we signed free agents who were good for the team, not all 3rd liners, then I think this team would make the playoffs every year and sell out games. We don't need a team of overpaid superstars like the Rangers, but we need players who mesh well together,like the Panthers 96 team. I think once we get some good complimentary players,we'll be ok
You are correct PantherFan12. I've had season tickets since Sid's rookie year and we didn't start selling out consistently until January/February of his second year when the team started winning consistently. If we hadn't lucked into Crosby the Penguins would be in Kansas City or Hamilton right now.

Pittsburgh has passionate sports fans (not that the Miami area doesn't) but you still need a quality product to bring them to the stadium. Heck the year the Steelers went 6-10 and were able to draft Roethlisberger I was able to go down and tailgate before the last two home games and get tickets for free because people didn't want to sit in the cold to watch a crappy team and our city is OBSESSED with the Steelers.

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11-25-2008, 08:38 AM
  #97
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the first couple of years when the cats were competitive the miami arena was sold out!!!! the cats were the hot ticket in town and the city was panther crazy for the cup run!!!!! a competitive team will bring fans. just about any city with a team that had our record would be hurting for ticket holders as well. as a matter of fact any city with our record over teh past 10 years would be in a simlar, or worse situation!!!!!

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11-25-2008, 08:57 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
I don't think it's true, I think it's just a stupid rumor. I think it's pretty impossible to get the Panthers to the playoffs, but have to cut $3million in salary yet keep JBo (which I think he's as good as gone)

IF, IF Cohen does sell the team, why is it automatic that the team will be dismantled and moved somewhere's else?

Also, I don't think anyone can critisize the fans of the franchise, honestly, I remember watching games back then,and seeing them now on youtube, of Panther games at the Miami Arena,and it was sold out, same with last season,during the 7 game stretch, we were nearly sold out every game. I think the problem is ,like people keep saying, we always hear the same run around year after year about making the playoffs and wanting to win, but it never happens so people get fed up.
All I gotta say is look at Pitt, before Malkin,Crosby,Stall, and Fluery, they nearly were sold and moved somewheres else. Once those players were drafted, they sold out every game. All I'm saying is if our players such as Horton,showed up to every game, and we signed free agents who were good for the team, not all 3rd liners, then I think this team would make the playoffs every year and sell out games. We don't need a team of overpaid superstars like the Rangers, but we need players who mesh well together,like the Panthers 96 team. I think once we get some good complimentary players,we'll be ok
you've just contradicted yourself - what were the 96 panthers if not a team of muckers and grinders that just played incredibly well together? first line talents on that team? with your comparison, you've unintentionally hit on the reason for those signings, however - they're the types of guys, marginal scoring line forwards (that's generous in some cases) who *could* possibly gel into a group that is greater than its sum. all this at a pretty low cost and without giving up assets. just hasn't panned out. yet.

i do agree wrt horton - he's the best player on the team and absolutely must play at that level every night. if/when he does, we do well.


Last edited by zeroG: 11-25-2008 at 09:03 AM.
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11-25-2008, 09:02 AM
  #99
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i do agree wrt horton - he's the best player on the team and absolutely must play at that level every night. if/when he is, we do well.
Take last night as an example. Horton skated to every loss puck, back checked, played the body and just showed the energy we all want to see from him. What happened? The team went as Horton went.

Sadly, this means he'll disappear for another 10 games.

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11-25-2008, 09:13 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
the first couple of years when the cats were competitive the miami arena was sold out!!!! the cats were the hot ticket in town and the city was panther crazy for the cup run!!!!! a competitive team will bring fans. just about any city with a team that had our record would be hurting for ticket holders as well. as a matter of fact any city with our record over teh past 10 years would be in a simlar, or worse situation!!!!!
The arena relocation didn't help much either. The population density in Sunrise is much smaller than it is in Miami; fewer people are likely to drive up there than they are / were to go to Miami (even if the old stadium was awful).

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