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Old
11-16-2008, 02:29 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
I'm all with getting Barker, to go along with the theme of other thread. But we would have to resign Havlat to a new contract as he already makes $6 million now and will command more.
when it comes time for any team to sign havlat to a new contract, hed be lucky to get 6 again with the way his career has been full of injuries. he needs to realize, accept and find a team willing to give him a FAIR contract for what he brings, but doesnt overpay for what hell inevitably bring(lost games to injuries). ill be suprised if he ever gets a similar contract again unless he has 2 full seasons of back to back 77+ appearances.

edit-id like to add that id love to have havlat as he would easily replace the creative void sykora left. also, the whole best buds thing would help too. but at 6 mil...its tough to gamble on.

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11-16-2008, 02:32 PM
  #52
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what bothers me most about the article...which sucks by the way....is Brooks making Elias out to be the source of all the Devils problems. There are many problems on this team. Yes, Elias is way overpaid and nowhere near the player he used to be, but, he's still the second best offensive player on this team (until Rolston comes back) and that says more about the Devils offensive talent as a team than it does Elias himself.

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11-16-2008, 02:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by devilzrule27 View Post
I don't think Havlat is getting that contract again. I think he may be expecting 5 million tops. Regardless it will most certainly be a short term(2 years 3 max) deal because of his health.
Yeah but we have seen plenty of money thrown around at UFA's over the past several months, so anything can happen. But I can certainly see a GM out there giving him $6 million again.

Lou has taken chances with often injured players before (Bobby Carpenter), but I'd like to think that Brian Rolston will be the last big ticket offensive player for a while.

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11-16-2008, 02:34 PM
  #54
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Brooks does get the result correct - Elias´ production has indeed gone downhill post lockout. Too bad he doesn´t get too insightful looking at possible reasons for that decline to happen.

The team has been through huge transition, or whatever you want to call it, after the depature of certain Hall of fame defenders. It is unfair to point out one player, if the team as a whole is going through difficulties. Of course it is fair and legitimate to weigh the effort from the team leaders. If the team isn´t really in a state of going deep in the playoffs, should journalists write columns upon underachieving star players or upon underachieving team or a team that plays to its potential?

Patty has scored less than in the past, yes. He should´ve scored more, but on the other hand, did he get support from anyone else than Parise last year, for instance? And on the other hand Elias has done well playing at both ends of the rink. One shouldn´t forget that when evaluating Elias.

During the past years Elias has played in various roles from first line center and point man on pp to checking line winger and has had all kinds of linemates from Gomez and Parise to Rasmussen and Rupp. The latter duo, well, nevermind.

The chemistry between Elias and Sutter wasn´t really overwhelmingly warm last year and I´m not sure if that´s the case now, though it has got better. It wasn´t too good approach on Sutter´s behalf that he took at Elias. It´s not like he´s a rookie that needs some lessons.

I really can´t see how Elias is above criticism. He has had his share on these boards too. Besides he is not taking off nights and thereby being deserving for blaming. The effort is there every night. The only thing missing are goals. With a few bounces gone the Devils´ way Elias could easily have ten goals plus ten assists by now and we wouldn´t be going through this discussion at all. Or at least having a different approach at it Elias being productive after few slower seasons...

Elias would be sorely missed, if he was shipped elsewhere. I´m glad that he´s with the Devils, though maybe scoring less than in the early 2000´s.

Just my few cents...

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11-16-2008, 02:34 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Yeah but we have seen plenty of money thrown around at UFA's over the past several months, so anything can happen. But I can certainly see a GM out there giving him $6 million again.

Lou has taken chances with often injured players before (Bobby Carpenter), but I'd like to think that Brian Rolston will be the last big ticket offensive player for a while.
Then we're going to be struggling for a while as well especially if we traded Elias.

@Dali

Thts Brooks' problem i don't think he watches hockey. He just looks through media guides and makes assumptions about things. "Oh Elias didn't get 90 points he must be one of the worst players now. time to trade him for Pavel Brendl."

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11-16-2008, 02:36 PM
  #56
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i pray that this upcoming off season, lou really takes a step back from his normal boring team concept and restructures this team to the new nhl. theres no reason he cant have his cake and eat it too, take a look at detroit. of course lou doesnt have the roster, but hes still got the clout and brain in that large melon of his to form a somewhat similar team.

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11-16-2008, 02:40 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by devilzrule27 View Post
Then we're going to be struggling for a while as well especially if we traded Elias.
Well, our offense has been struggling for like a really long time now and we certainly know about our defense struggling as well that's for sure.

But we are basically a team that even without injuries, is a team at the cap ceiling that seems to always underperform on offense, can be suspect on defense, that is all held together by incredible goaltending.

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11-16-2008, 02:40 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by åboriginal View Post
i pray that this upcoming off season, lou really takes a step back from his normal boring team concept and restructures this team to the new nhl. theres no reason he cant have his cake and eat it too, take a look at detroit. of course lou doesnt have the roster, but hes still got the clout and brain in that large melon of his to form a somewhat similar team.
Indeed... More Nordics! haha

Detroit takes pride in the players they develop but they aren't afraid to bring in superstars as well. They also aren't afriad to tel la player no if he asks for to much money regardless of his standing and history with the team. (Jay Pandolfo)

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11-16-2008, 02:44 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Yeah but we have seen plenty of money thrown around at UFA's over the past several months, so anything can happen. But I can certainly see a GM out there giving him $6 million again.

Lou has taken chances with often injured players before (Bobby Carpenter), but I'd like to think that Brian Rolston will be the last big ticket offensive player for a while.
Wait wait wait........on a team STARVED for offense, you don't want Lou to improve that at all? I'd hardly call Rolston a big ticket offensive player too. While you call him that and bemoan Elias they've had roughly the same amount of points. Elias more assists and Rolston more goals. So cut the ****.

Since the lockout

Elias 45(38 games) 69, 55. = 169 in 187 games for .9 PPG

Rolston 79(82 games), 54, 59 = 202 in 242 games for .84 PPG.

So almost a whole tenth of a point and Elias gets 975K more a real negligible difference.

Yet Rolston is big ticket and Elias is not. Give me a break.

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11-16-2008, 02:48 PM
  #60
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Elias for Pavel Kubina and Alexei Ponikarovsky

Elias-Sundin-Antropov
Kulemin-Grabovski-Gaborik
Hagman-Steen-Blake
Mayers-Moore-Stajan

Kaberle-Schenn
Colaiacovo-Finger
Van Ryn-Stralman

Toskala

Stanley cup here we come.

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11-16-2008, 02:49 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Elias for Pavel Kubina and Alexei Ponikarovsky

Elias-Sundin-Antropov
Kulemin-Grabovski-Gaborik
Hagman-Steen-Blake
Mayers-Moore-Stajan

Kaberle-Schenn
Colaiacovo-Finger
Van Ryn-Stralman

Toskala

Stanley cup here we come.
Psst, Sundin doesn't play in Toronto anymore, nor will he.

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11-16-2008, 02:50 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Elias for Pavel Kubina and Alexei Ponikarovsky

Elias-Sundin-Antropov
Kulemin-Grabovski-Gaborik
Hagman-Steen-Blake
Mayers-Moore-Stajan

Kaberle-Schenn
Colaiacovo-Finger
Van Ryn-Stralman

Toskala

Stanley cup here we come.
its one thing how we bastardize our own threads and fill them with line up posts....but a leafs one now.

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11-16-2008, 02:51 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
Wait wait wait........on a team STARVED for offense, you don't want Lou to improve that at all? I'd hardly call Rolston a big ticket offensive player too. While you call him that and bemoan Elias they've had roughly the same amount of points. Elias more assists and Rolston more goals. So cut the ****.

Since the lockout

Elias 45(38 games) 69, 55. = 169 in 187 games for .9 PPG

Rolston 79(82 games), 54, 59 = 202 in 242 games for .84 PPG.

So almost a whole tenth of a point and Elias gets 975K more a real negligible difference.

Yet Rolston is big ticket and Elias is not. Give me a break.
Yes, Elias does have an expensive contract. Yes, Elias is a big ticket item. That contact was given to Elias almost 3 years ago. We have a lot of money tied up in forwards right now, espeically since signing Brian Rolston most recently.

I'm talking post Rolston/going forward from now on.

I'm kind of not sure what the hell you're taking about.

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11-16-2008, 02:54 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Elias for Pavel Kubina and Alexei Ponikarovsky

Elias-Sundin-Antropov
Kulemin-Grabovski-Gaborik
Hagman-Steen-Blake
Mayers-Moore-Stajan

Kaberle-Schenn
Colaiacovo-Finger
Van Ryn-Stralman

Toskala

Stanley cup here we come.
Throw in Luke Schenn too?

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11-16-2008, 02:56 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Yes, Elias does have an expensive contract. Yes, Elias is a big ticket item. That contact was given to Elias almost 3 years ago. We have a lot of money tied up in forwards right now, espeically since signing Brian Rolston most recently.

I'm talking post Rolston/going forward from now on.

I'm kind of not sure what the hell you're taking about.
My beef is that you've got a problem with Elias, yet no worries with Rolston at all. Yet I showed you that they're the same player with around the same contract. People are willing to offer these numbers to guys like Patty and Rolston and I'd rather have them on my team than on anyone else's. Lets face it, they don't score because they play here, especially Elias. No one has come here and scored at a high offensive pace. I bet Ovechkin himself could become a Devil and not crack a 100 points.

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11-16-2008, 02:58 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by devilzrule27 View Post
Thts Brooks' problem i don't think he watches hockey. He just looks through media guides and makes assumptions about things. "Oh Elias didn't get 90 points he must be one of the worst players now. time to trade him for Pavel Brendl."
Or this is just a feature of so called sports journalism that tries to "create discussion" by overstating and inflating some aspect of a player or whatever and taking it out of its original context. Such is this Brooks article upon Elias´ declining performance.

Pavel Brendl... He was a total bum when he played for Jokipojat in Finland during the lockout and I don´t think I´ve heard of him since.

I can´t recall him skating into their own zone at all but floating around at center ice and then trying to dangle his way up with the puck. But yes, he was an NHL star for marketing purposes

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11-16-2008, 03:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
My beef is that you've got a problem with Elias, yet no worries with Rolston at all. Yet I showed you that they're the same player with around the same contract. People are willing to offer these numbers to guys like Patty and Rolston and I'd rather have them on my team than on anyone else's. Lets face it, they don't score because they play here, especially Elias. No one has come here and scored at a high offensive pace. I bet Ovechkin himself could become a Devil and not crack a 100 points.
O.K. fair enough. I liked the Brian Rolston signing a lot because he could play Center & wing and a really big reason that Rolston was brought here was his ability to help the PP.

How cany anyone yet make an assessment, have any worries or criticize Rolston if has only played like 5 games so far???

And believe me, if our team was healthy and our offense and PP still sucked as the season progressed, I and practically everyone here will be getting on Rolston too.

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11-16-2008, 03:02 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dali View Post
Pavel Brendl... He was a total bum when he played for Jokipojat in Finland during the lockout and I don´t think I´ve heard of him since.
wow pavel brendl...totally forgot about him, gee i wonder why. hes prolly hanging out with patrik stefan in siberia somewhere.

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11-16-2008, 03:03 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
O.K. fair enough. I liked the Brian Rolston signing a lot because he could play Center a big reason that Rolston was brough here was his ability to help the PP.

How cany anyone make an assessment on Rolston if he played only 5 games?

And believe me, if our team was healthy and our offense and PP still sucked, I and almost everyone here will be getting on Rolston too.
The way this board is, that's a fair bet on Rolston . Though he may get a pass with people saying he's still recovering from the ankle sprain.

God I hate the Thrashers.

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11-16-2008, 03:03 PM
  #70
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Though I may only be echoing the argument presented by Dali above the exact premise of the argument which is made in the article is essentially equivalent to the age-old one that Marty only benefited from playing behind the defense and system in which he did.

In this case it's Patrick Elias is somehow, someway, single-handedly responsible for the declination of the Devils and our overall offensive woes. What isn't being asked or presented are a lot of variables to the entire situation. First off, his best season to-date was why? Not because he was younger, not because he was more skilled or the Devils played much different hockey, but because he had an incredible amount of chemistry with his linemates.

Now when he came back from Hep and had arguably his most productive season/post-season since then (in terms of points per game) why is it that he was able to do so? He had great chemistry with Gomez and Gionta.

What remains to be seen is if any chemistry would build with Patty and Rolston because the amount of time he played has been so minimal and non-impactful. Right now the contracts that look the worst to me are Colin White's, Brian Rolston's, and just on salary alone Brian Gionta's & Jay Pandolfo's (although we did owe him for being underpaid).

The thing often lost in all of this is that, as much as we all think we KNOW the team, we don't. We're not in the locker room, we're not on the bench or on the ice, we're mere spectators with information at our disposal in which we base our judgments and decisions. But the fact of the matter is Patrik might not be worth his contract, but he is NOT what people are making him out to be.

The reality beneath this all is that, if you have watched Patrik's better days you'll know that it had more to do with being able to use others to utilize his skills, not be the lead dog pulling the sled. Thus far, since Gomez has left, no one has stepped up and been able to build with him and Sutter hasn't allowed much because he changes lines more than an obsessive compulsive person washes their hands. A few short weeks ago, Patrik clearly had some good chemistry building with Petr Vrana and what happens? The pairing lasts maybe 2 1/2 games and eventually Vrana is relegated to playing whenever Sutter feels like it and then is scratched.

The last two games Patty has basically scored by his own hard work, but there is no question it is going to be short lived until he can find guys he gels with. I don't think that makes him invisible or makes him not worth keeping, I think it means we have to evaluate our personnel beyond him as well.

Overall the front office has done a poor job since the lockout, our best move so far was trading Cam Janssen for Bryce Salvador and everyone knows that had more to do with JD's hard-on for Cam than it did Lou's ability to make great trades.

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11-16-2008, 03:04 PM
  #71
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wow pavel brendl...totally forgot about him, gee i wonder why. hes prolly hanging out with patrik stefan in siberia somewhere.
I believe he has like 17 goals in 25 games in the KHL. I thought there was a thread about him on the main boards.

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11-16-2008, 03:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
O.K. fair enough. I liked the Brian Rolston signing a lot because he could play Center & wing and a really big reason that Rolston was brought here was his ability to help the PP.

How cany anyone yet make an assessment on Rolston if has only played like 5 games so far?

And believe me, if our team was healthy and our offense and PP still sucked as the season progressed, I and practically everyone here will be getting on Rolston too.
i 100% believe that when rolston comes back, paired with salmelas recent assimilation to NA rinks/confidence in his own game...the pp will be improved a good deal. nobody can say whether or not well be on rolstons back or not, but with the focus off him on the pp, the results HOPEFULLY will be positive. id like to think then that part of rolstons signing will be accomplished then. all hed need to do is click with patty and we got ourself 2 very good lines again as opposed to one.

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11-16-2008, 03:06 PM
  #73
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Muttley, who in your opinion ears their salary and isn't trade-worthy? Zach and maybe Marty, or should we expect more consistency from him at $5.2?

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11-16-2008, 03:11 PM
  #74
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wow pavel brendl...totally forgot about him, gee i wonder why. hes prolly hanging out with patrik stefan in siberia somewhere.
the bum has 17 goals and ONE assist in the KHL right now. haha.
apparently Mika Noronen is on his team. I was wondering what happened to that guy. Ok so maybe i wasn't.

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11-16-2008, 03:15 PM
  #75
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patrik elias is not going anywhere.

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