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Is trading Leetch necessary?

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03-02-2004, 12:55 PM
  #1
Fletch
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Is trading Leetch necessary?

after Kazo's post, which basically states that if Leetch isn't traded, the rebuilding won't work because we'll have a bunch of mid-round picks and more of the same of what we've already got (sorry for the bad paraphrase, kazo, feel free to edit).

Wondering what y'all thought. Personally, like I've said, Leetch should be a win-win situation. Trade him for the right package (not like the package PITT got for Jagr, or what WASH got for Jagr), or keep him. If you keep him, you essentially retain a guy who doesn't want to leave and who should be at the top of his game a few more seasons, affording time to find the next Leetch.

As for the rebuilding...that's gonna be tough, but the first step is to get out the old, especially the Mironovs and Malakhovs. Move on without Messier. Get rid of Hlavac. Then, hope that Kovalev can return something, that Sather can make something of this season's draft, that some other prospects turn out to be decent. Personally, while there's a lot of 'hoping', there's not much more than can be done. Can make much out of what here currently, in terms of moving vets for prospects, and in terms of prospects already here. And you don't need a team with all players under 30 - keeping Holik, Jagr, deVries and Kaspar, among a few others, should aid in the transition if the GM acquires/signs players needed, as opposed to whose available.

But, of course, nothing's going to be complete without a coach.

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03-02-2004, 01:07 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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On the one hand, you can't say trading Leetch is neccessary becuase if all you are offered is one top 10 prospect OR 1 late 1st rounder, it ain't worth it.. But if the offer is a top prospect and a #1 then, yes, it is mandatory because it is the best way for this rotten organization to improve the future in a leap...

The worst of all worlds, Sather is offered bupkis for Leetch and we keep him and most probably he continues playing the same inconsistent, often spectacular, but zero-leadership hockey. In a nut shell, we retain a good player for another year but it really doesn't do anything about the future....That's why if the offer is there, you take it and don't look back no matter who the trading partner is..

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03-02-2004, 01:11 PM
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I hear you, although...

top prospect may mean bumpkis too. It's risky business either way. It's tough turning on that rebuilding switch because you still need to acquire the right players - whether they're 21 or 32 - you still need the right mix and there's little guarnatees that your #1 will pan out, or that a top prospect, say one who's in juniors currently, will become that top guy. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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03-02-2004, 01:14 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
after Kazo's post, which basically states that if Leetch isn't traded, the rebuilding won't work because we'll have a bunch of mid-round picks and more of the same of what we've already got (sorry for the bad paraphrase, kazo, feel free to edit).

Wondering what y'all thought. Personally, like I've said, Leetch should be a win-win situation. Trade him for the right package (not like the package PITT got for Jagr, or what WASH got for Jagr), or keep him. If you keep him, you essentially retain a guy who doesn't want to leave and who should be at the top of his game a few more seasons, affording time to find the next Leetch.

As for the rebuilding...that's gonna be tough, but the first step is to get out the old, especially the Mironovs and Malakhovs. Move on without Messier. Get rid of Hlavac. Then, hope that Kovalev can return something, that Sather can make something of this season's draft, that some other prospects turn out to be decent. Personally, while there's a lot of 'hoping', there's not much more than can be done. Can make much out of what here currently, in terms of moving vets for prospects, and in terms of prospects already here. And you don't need a team with all players under 30 - keeping Holik, Jagr, deVries and Kaspar, among a few others, should aid in the transition if the GM acquires/signs players needed, as opposed to whose available.

But, of course, nothing's going to be complete without a coach.
First, let me say that I'm not anti-Leetch. Quite the contrary, I've always been a big Leetch fan. And if everything was peaches 'n cream I'd want him to stay.

My point is if Brian stays than how much is going to happen thru this deadline? Maybe Kovalev gets a 2 and a mid-level prospect. Then you look at Mironov, Malakhov, Rucinsky, Barnaby, etc....you all know the usual suspects. Some are worth a 3, 4, 5th rounder. Some are worth nothing for different reasons.

So, if the Rangers are really serious, they almost have to try and move Brian for the best offer out there. I would think two pretty good roster players with some upside along with a #1. Something to get the organization moving again because right now nothing is happening. Besides Leetch, who else are you going to trade that would make an impact?

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03-02-2004, 01:18 PM
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I admit...

there's nothing besides Leetch, and I'm not anti-trading Leetch. I have said all along that the deal, however, must knock my socks off if I were going to take it. Like you said - a couple decent roster players and a #1 get it done for me, too (Ott, Morrow and a #1 would be sufficient, in my opinion, of course I do believe Dallas would be crazy, but again, it's gotta be one-sided otherwise keep Leetch).

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03-02-2004, 01:18 PM
  #6
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With what Tyutin said today in the papers (I can't remember which one, but King posted the link) I think keeping Leetch would be a smart thing. Tyutin is supposed to be the Rangers future on the blue line, and of all the Rangers for Tyutin to learn from, Leetch would be by far my choice as the best option. That said, if someone offers a trade that you can't turn down, Sather definitely should not turn it down.

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03-02-2004, 01:26 PM
  #7
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My take on why it will be idiotic if they trade Leetch.

-I don't think the package offered will be in line with what I could justify such a move.

-If the NHL implements these rules to bring skill and skating back into the fold is there ANYBODY out there you rather have lugging the puck from the blueline or making outlet passes other than #2??

-if the team is even halfway decent next year you absolutely know they will be looking to acquire a d-man to replace what Brian brought and when this happens they'll surrender even more then they got for Leetch in a package for a Sergei Zubov or the like.

And from what I hear this yrs draft isn't all that deep so everybody looking to get all this picks I really don't feel this is the best year to adopt this stratagy.A late 1st this yr is likely a 2nd rounder in last years draft.


NO thanks.

Leetch has at least 3 top end yrs left and still is a top 10 d-man who goes very underappreciated by far too many on this board IMO.


Last edited by JR#9*: 03-02-2004 at 01:39 PM.
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03-02-2004, 01:31 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
So, if the Rangers are really serious, they almost have to try and move Brian for the best offer out there. I would think two pretty good roster players with some upside along with a #1. Something to get the organization moving again because right now nothing is happening. Besides Leetch, who else are you going to trade that would make an impact?
Sorry but to me a mid-level prospect and what would likely be a late 1st rounder don't come close to justifying such a move.

I don't think moving Leetch is nearly as vital to helping the NYR's get on the right track.Adding an addition 1st rounder would be nice but if it's in the 20-30 range it's a crap shoot that isn't worth moving a guy like Leetch for,

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03-02-2004, 01:32 PM
  #9
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I know it's hard for you to be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
On the one hand, you can't say trading Leetch is neccessary becuase if all you are offered is one top 10 prospect OR 1 late 1st rounder, it ain't worth it.. But if the offer is a top prospect and a #1 then, yes, it is mandatory because it is the best way for this rotten organization to improve the future in a leap...

The worst of all worlds, Sather is offered bupkis for Leetch and we keep him and most probably he continues playing the same inconsistent, often spectacular, but zero-leadership hockey. In a nut shell, we retain a good player for another year but it really doesn't do anything about the future....That's why if the offer is there, you take it and don't look back no matter who the trading partner is..
anything but cynical, BUT!!!...

I am going to state three factors on why I think things may be different next year.

(1) One of the statements that came out upon Sather relieving himself of the coaching duties was that the Rangers are shifting their approach towards construting a team. They are supposedly moving away from the star-driven approach of the past. This might signal that they expect the financial landscape for the league to change.

(2) Sather cried to his crony in Vancouver how he wanted to build, not fix, a team, but there was a different mandate. Sure, Sather's taking shots at Dolan. But, now the spin is out, so sather has his excuse to stick around.

(3) On FAN 590, JD told the interviewers that Sather and Maloney are locked away preparing for the upcoming trade deadline. JD said he expects Kovalev, Nedved and Malakhov to be gone.

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03-02-2004, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
anything but cynical, BUT!!!...

(1) One of the statements that came out upon Sather relieving himself of the coaching duties was that the Rangers are shifting their approach towards construting a team. They are supposedly moving away from the star-driven approach of the past. This might signal that they expect the financial landscape for the league to change.

(
.

That would be fine and dandy if they didn't just acquire Jagr and his $44 million 4 contract 3 F'in weeks ago but to me I certainly don't think we'll see a true rebuild coming.You know they'll be looking to bring in a bigtime center to replace Lindros next year, and you know they'll replace Kovalev with another big name UFA or the like and you know that if they did move Leetch that next year they'd be looking to reacquire the same type of player and they'd wind up sending a sweeter package then the one they'd likely get for Leetch.

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03-02-2004, 01:38 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
My take on why it will be idiotic if they trade Leetch.

-I don't think the package offered will be in line with what I could justify such a move.

-If the NHL implements these rules to bring skill and skating back into the fold is there ANYBODY out there you rather have lugging the puck from the blueline or making outlet passes other than #2??

-if the team is even halfway decent next year you absolutely know they will be looking to acquire a d-man to replace what Brian brought and when this happens they'll surrender even more then they got for Leetch in a package for a Sergei Zubov or the like.


NO thanks.

Leetch has at least 3 top end yrs left and still is a top 10 d-man who goes very underappreciated by far too many on this board IMO.
I don't know, it sounds a lot like you're talking adding free agents in order to make the team halfway decent next year.

I'm talking about tearing this thing down and then rebuilding it. Maybe that really is too drastic a move for NYR but tha't the only way to get rid of the losing attitude.

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03-02-2004, 01:46 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
I don't know, it sounds a lot like you're talking adding free agents in order to make the team halfway decent next year.

I'm talking about tearing this thing down and then rebuilding it. Maybe that really is too drastic a move for NYR but tha't the only way to get rid of the losing attitude.

OK but what you want and what will likely happen are probrably to very different things.

To me the trade for Jagr said it all.Even at that point it was an outside chance they would make the PO this year and everyone at MSG knew this and still made the deal.

You simply don't make that move if your going with a "tear it all down and suck for a few yrs "attitude and that's why I'm not holding my breath for such a scenario and that's why my feelings about moving Leetch are what they are.

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03-02-2004, 01:59 PM
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I disagree, JR

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
OK but what you want and what will likely happen are probrably to very different things.

To me the trade for Jagr said it all.Even at that point it was an outside chance they would make the PO this year and everyone at MSG knew this and still made the deal.

You simply don't make that move if your going with a "tear it all down and suck for a few yrs "attitude and that's why I'm not holding my breath for such a scenario and that's why my feelings about moving Leetch are what they are.
I think Sather still had designs on this year, and thought getting Jagr could goose the Rangers the way the Knicks getting Marbury improved their lot. Reality finally set in last week. You don't entertain trading Leetch if next year remains business as usual.

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03-02-2004, 02:15 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
OK but what you want and what will likely happen are probrably to very different things.

To me the trade for Jagr said it all.Even at that point it was an outside chance they would make the PO this year and everyone at MSG knew this and still made the deal.

You simply don't make that move if your going with a "tear it all down and suck for a few yrs "attitude and that's why I'm not holding my breath for such a scenario and that's why my feelings about moving Leetch are what they are.

Let me say that I don't think the Jagr aquisition and a rebuilding/reloading have to be mutually exclusive..I'll agree that the big Jagr aquisition gives me pause about buying into a rebuilding because we can easily see the return of the whining, pouting, all-for-himslef, want-no-part-of -rebuilding Jagr that I saw on display in Washington if that happened.

Here's the scenario that I HOPE plays out...First, I think things have changed quickly at the garden as the problems and the anger/apathy of the fans has finally been relalized but, more importantly, I don't think this is gonna be a total overhaul as much as it will be a re-commitment to youth and the future....jagr will still have buddies to play with like Holik and a few key UFAs/RFAs but they will mainly be complimented by lower cost-higher energy younger players and there will be a commitment to buiolding the system with young players and that is where trading Leetch comes in...

if the offer is there, you can't pass up the opportunity to restock the future especially when Leetch or a similar UFA/RFA can be obtained with just money..Yeah, this seems like the same old Ranger philosphy but if the FAs are kept to a minimum and selected smartly it may work....

The other scenario is that nothing has changed and all is a smoke-screen from Sather and his cigar...In that case, why trade Leetch?

Call me foolish, but I think the 1st scnario is more possible right now...Eh, who the hell knows what will happen...We will know soon enough.....Until then, everything is just opinions like those great pre-season prognostications..

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03-02-2004, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
OK but what you want and what will likely happen are probrably to very different things.

To me the trade for Jagr said it all.Even at that point it was an outside chance they would make the PO this year and everyone at MSG knew this and still made the deal.

You simply don't make that move if your going with a "tear it all down and suck for a few yrs "attitude and that's why I'm not holding my breath for such a scenario and that's why my feelings about moving Leetch are what they are.
You're right about the Jagr deal. It was idiotic and made absolutely no sense as eveyone outside of MSG was and is aware.

But, at some point, somebody has to draw the line and begin cutting loses. Whether it's Sather or whoever. This thing will continue to rot until somebody takes the bull by the horns and has the stones to do what needs to be done. That means making smart trades and otherwise getting rid of players who don't want to be here or don't need to be here.

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03-02-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
Let me say that I don't think the Jagr aquisition and a rebuilding/reloading have to be mutually exclusive..I'll agree that the big Jagr aquisition gives me pause about buying into a rebuilding because we can easily see the return of the whining, pouting, all-for-himslef, want-no-part-of -rebuilding Jagr that I saw on display in Washington if that happened.

Here's the scenario that I HOPE plays out...First, I think things have changed quickly at the garden as the problems and the anger/apathy of the fans has finally been relalized but, more importantly, I don't think this is gonna be a total overhaul as much as it will be a re-commitment to youth and the future....jagr will still have buddies to play with like Holik and a few key UFAs/RFAs but they will mainly be complimented by lower cost-higher energy younger players and there will be a commitment to buiolding the system with young players and that is where trading Leetch comes in...

if the offer is there, you can't pass up the opportunity to restock the future especially when Leetch or a similar UFA/RFA can be obtained with just money..Yeah, this seems like the same old Ranger philosphy but if the FAs are kept to a minimum and selected smartly it may work....

The other scenario is that nothing has changed and all is a smoke-screen from Sather and his cigar...In that case, why trade Leetch?

Call me foolish, but I think the 1st scnario is more possible right now...Eh, who the hell knows what will happen...We will know soon enough.....Until then, everything is just opinions like those great pre-season prognostications..
At the end of the day we always have that caveat that rebuilding is fine and getting younger is fine but not at the expense of remaining competitive. That is the one thing that trumps everything else. Never mind that in doing that the team doesn't remain competitive. Classic catch-22.

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03-02-2004, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
. You don't entertain trading Leetch if next year remains business as usual.

Who said he is entertaining offers on a serious level?

Of course he'll listen to offers being thrown at him but that is a big difference between that and actively shopping the guy and an immenent deal.

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03-02-2004, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Who said he is entertaining offers on a serious level?

Of course he'll listen to offers being thrown at him but that is a big difference between that and actively shopping the guy and an immenent deal.
Who said he's not? Unless you have facts either way, both are possibilites and NONE of us know despite what Sather's track record is..

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03-02-2004, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
Who said he's not? Unless you have facts either way, both are possibilites and NONE of us know despite what Sather's track record is..
That is my point.We all know he is LISTENING but NONE of us know how serious Glen is about actually pulling the trigger on an offer.

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03-02-2004, 02:42 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazo
At the end of the day we always have that caveat that rebuilding is fine and getting younger is fine but not at the expense of remaining competitive. That is the one thing that trumps everything else. Never mind that in doing that the team doesn't remain competitive. Classic catch-22.
Oh Great Kazo, believe me I hear you big time..It it was up to me, I would burn the mother down and start all over but I can't see Ranger mangement thinking that way for one iota and why I can't really entertain that scenario..And while I'll take a commitment to youth with FAs and spending money still involved..Beggars can't be choosers...But, as always, we shall see..

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03-02-2004, 02:45 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
That is my point.We all know he is LISTENING but NONE of us know how serious Glen is about actually pulling the trigger on an offer.
Crossed-wires...That is true..Only the next 7 days will show..And despite having no reason to have any hope or confidence in Sather, I think there is a possibility he finally does the right thing....Yeah, I know, always the optimist...

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