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(Game #21) 11/17 Ottawa Senators @ New York Rangers 7:00 PM MSG

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11-18-2008, 09:12 AM
  #601
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Again, i defend and support Renney ALL THE TIME. I feel he is a great coach. The best we have had in a LONG time. May end up being the best coach the organization ever had when all is said and done. I love his calm demeanor and his respect for his players. And most of the credit for this organizations good health is because of him and his staff and Sather.

That does not mean i have to agree with everything he does.

And he was wrong in this instance. Benching players is always wrong. you address it in practice and/or in the locker room. You tap the player on the shoulder on the bench and mention your displeasure with what he did. But DO NOT bench him. During practice make him work on it. In the locker room show him video. DO NOT hurt the whole team by benching him.

I NEVER agree with benching a player in any situation. Unless he deliberately skated the puck in your own zone and deaked your own goaltender and scored on your own net. Or did some other bizarre out of control thing.

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11-18-2008, 09:15 AM
  #602
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PS the whole point of citing Lundqvist earning wins is thus:

The coach has no effect on Lundqvist other then saying - you are or are not starting today. So it is fair to say that their is no correlation between the goaltender and the coach.

Now with all the other aspects of the game, a matter of coaching and training. So when you subtract Henrik - you see more of a litmus test of Renney's coaching successes and failures.

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11-18-2008, 09:18 AM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
PS the whole point of citing Lundqvist earning wins is thus:

The coach has no effect on Lundqvist other then saying - you are or are not starting today. So it is fair to say that their is no correlation between the goaltender and the coach.

Now with all the other aspects of the game, a matter of coaching and training. So when you subtract Henrik - you see more of a litmus test of Renney's coaching successes and failures.
the toronto game perhaps?

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11-18-2008, 09:19 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You are contradicting you self.

If player A plays lackluster it is OK because he is what he is. But if player B doesn't play his best game he should be benched?
You dont get it.

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11-18-2008, 09:19 AM
  #605
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Anyway, I'm glad Zherdev bounced back and scored in the shootout.

This team needs to get Gomez back so we have someone who can skate the puck into the zone on the Power Play.

And possibly need to make a deal sometime soon to get a scorer.

Someone like Frolov, who is being relegated to the "checking" line in LA.

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11-18-2008, 09:20 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
This blind faith mentality and ignorance must be great.

But i guess i don't have to follow the leader, i have the ability to deduct and reason on my own.

Real logic would suggest that if a coach WERE to subject a player to benching, it should happen after allowing two short handed goals against.

Not while playing an off game. That is why there are 20 guys dressed every game. Because not everyone plays to 100% capacity every game.
Its a matter of opinion. In the coaches eyes(the only one that matters and a professional) saw what he percieved as a lack of effort with Zherdev. Rosival it was a boneheaded play(s).

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11-18-2008, 09:20 AM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If you READ, then you will have saw this:
I did read, and saw this a few posts before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Here is the problem with Renney benching Zherdev:

Rozsival has been SINGLE-HANDEDLY responsible for MULTIPLE short handed goals against, among other boneheaded plays.

Renney then DEFENDS him openly to the press and against the fans.

Zherdev, who has been arguably our BEST skater all season, gets benched... for what reason?

That is the problem. I defend Renney all the time, but he targets the WRONG players to take his frustrations out on.

Can't bench the multi-million dollar investments who play lack luster most of the game, but he can bench the young guys who play with 110% effort every game, all game long.
That entire post consists of you complaining that he didn't bench Rozsival.

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11-18-2008, 09:20 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You dont get it.
I completely get it.

I think we have to agree to disagree.

I never believe in benching players. It is counter productive.

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11-18-2008, 09:22 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I completely get it.

I think we have to agree to disagree.

I never believe in benching players. It is counter productive.
Except in this case, Zman came out with a fire in his belly and scored a great shootout goal. Renney or not here he came !

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11-18-2008, 09:22 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I did read, and saw this a few posts before:



That entire post consists of you complaining that he didn't bench Rozsival.
What i was saying is that it is never OK to bench a player.

And if he WERE to, why let a player get a pass when he HURTS the team blatantly.

But bench a player because he was not playing his best game.

It is a contradictory situation.

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11-18-2008, 09:23 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
absolutely ridiculous statement. are you serious? broken.

gimme a break. yeah, renney needs to break z. renney should kiss his arse for winning games single handedly this season. he is our single most dynamic player. he has immense talent and with that comes dangling and flair. he makes no more mistakes than say gomez and his idiot passes to no one or rozy and his stevie wonder defense.

so far i have seen more from zherdev then i ever expected. he is our most complete forward, he bangs, he passes, he backchecks, he scores huge goals and hes exicted when he does it. hes our ovechkin and i want no part of renney trying to break him. period.

if renney has his way, hell break z all right... hell suck the life out of him and make him into friggin blair betts.

god help us all.
Absolutely ridiculous if you take it literally and ignore the use of quotations.

So all of those things you've seen from Zherdev magically appeared in his game when he was traded to NY, and was in no way attributable to Tom Renney and his coaching. Got it.

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11-18-2008, 09:24 AM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I completely get it.

I think we have to agree to disagree.

I never believe in benching players. It is counter productive.
I'd guess that upwards of 90% of people who have ever coached a professional hockey team would disagree with you.

And for all you people who are defending Zherdev from Renney as if Renney was an abusive father, remember this: Z's former coach, Ken Hitchcock, has been credited by Z himself for really getting through to him and helping him grow as a player. If you know anything about Ken Hitchcock, you'll know that he didn't do that by coddling him.

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11-18-2008, 09:24 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Except in this case, Zman came out with a fire in his belly and scored a great shootout goal. Renney or not here he came !
I don't know that he scored in the shootout as a result of being benched.

Had it been 5v5 then you can assume that.

In a shootout? I can't say that.

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11-18-2008, 09:25 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I'd guess that upwards of 90% of people who have ever coached a professional hockey team would disagree with you.
Well for anyone who ever played competitive hockey, if you are benched, it does not always effect everyone in a positive manner.

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11-18-2008, 09:25 AM
  #615
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Agree with the benching - but it should not be just the young guys. It should be consistent.

And hopefully Z will shake this off. I have never seen a player not come out for a star and a round of applause during a win. Thats a problem.

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11-18-2008, 09:34 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Whoot Whoot View Post
Agree with the benching - but it should not be just the young guys. It should be consistent.

And hopefully Z will shake this off. I have never seen a player not come out for a star and a round of applause during a win. Thats a problem.
Again, Renney clearly (and correctly, in my and other people's opinion) sees a difference when it comes to benching due to physical mistakes and benching due to lack of hustle.

You claim that Roszival's mistakes were due to lack of hustle, but I certainly don't. And clearly his head coach doesn't think so, either. No offense, but I'm gonna take Renney's word over yours.

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11-18-2008, 09:35 AM
  #617
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I think we're looking too far into this. Let's not forget that Voros was benched along with Z.

Perhaps Renney is trying to jumpstart the playstation line? Let's face it, they've cooled off tremendously the past few games. Maybe benching them will be what they need to get their spark back.

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11-18-2008, 09:36 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Well for anyone who ever played competitive hockey, if you are benched, it does not always effect everyone in a positive manner.
So Ken Hitchcock was wrong to do it to Zherdev too, even though Zherdev himself has praised the way Hitchcock handled him?

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11-18-2008, 09:38 AM
  #619
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Let's see how Zherdev reacts before people start complaining...Renney has gained my trust over the years where I will stand by his decisions until I am given a reason to believe otherwise

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11-18-2008, 09:38 AM
  #620
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Again, Renney clearly (and correctly, in my and other people's opinion) sees a difference when it comes to benching due to physical mistakes and benching due to lack of hustle.

You claim that Roszival's mistakes were due to lack of hustle, but I certainly don't. And clearly his head coach doesn't think so, either. No offense, but I'm gonna take Renney's word over yours.
http://rangers.nhl.tv/team/console.j...8&event=NYR386

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11-18-2008, 09:39 AM
  #621
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11-18-2008, 09:49 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
What i was saying is that it is never OK to bench a player.

And if he WERE to, why let a player get a pass when he HURTS the team blatantly.

But bench a player because he was not playing his best game.

It is a contradictory situation.
I explained that in my last response to you.

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11-18-2008, 09:49 AM
  #623
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Um no, he got picked. What, are you complaining that he couldn't catch up with Daniel freaking Alfredsson after Alfie got about two and half steps on him? Yeah, that makes total sense.

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11-18-2008, 09:57 AM
  #624
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Um no, he got picked. What, are you complaining that he couldn't catch up with Daniel freaking Alfredsson after Alfie got about two and half steps on him? Yeah, that makes total sense.
He stopped skating. Plain and simple.

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11-18-2008, 10:05 AM
  #625
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He stopped skating. Plain and simple.
You dont understand - Rosy takes the net side, Shoey was supposed to take Alfie from the front of the net. The failure to check his man was shoey's, he even said so after the game.

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