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Is Martin Havlat a dirty player?

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Old
03-02-2004, 12:10 AM
  #26
The Mars Volchenkov
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FYI, Havlat has dropped the gloves before and fought. Just thought I'd point that out.

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03-02-2004, 12:42 AM
  #27
Winston Wolf
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Sure Havlat is dirty, but so were Howe, Lemieux, Bourque, Forsberg, etc. (not putting them all in the same class.) Hockey is one of the most physical sports and dirty plays are inevitable. I'm not condoning dirty play, but it really is a part of the game no matter what you want to believe.

And I don't see how Havlat not dropping the gloves is an issue. A dirty play is a dirty play, it doesn't matter if he's a fighter or not.

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Old
03-02-2004, 01:12 AM
  #28
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Is Martin Havlat Dirty? No. Reckless? Yes.

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Old
03-02-2004, 01:19 AM
  #29
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He reminds me a bit of Theoren Fleury back when he was a good hockey player.

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Old
03-02-2004, 03:37 AM
  #30
stardog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxtang
There is a difference between being dirty and playing with an edge. Playing with an edge means throwing checks, getting in peoples faces, and being hard to play against in front of the net, and dropping the gloves. Being dirty means being a whiney little *****, using your stick, hiding behind the instigator, and things like that.

And if I hear one more "I'd be pissed too if some grinder was hooking me" thing, I swear to god. A) so being hooked now means you should freak out? B) that grinder has more points than Havlat right now.
I agree with most of your assesments except that I dont think playing with an edge means you should have to drop the gloves. I think you can play with an edge without having to fight.

Being dirt means taking cheap shots that could injure another opponent, with no care or respect to said opponent.
Again, fighting, or not fighting, isnt a pre requiset to being dirty or playing with an edge.
There are plenty of dirty players who fight, and plenty who don't.

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03-02-2004, 03:39 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDB3939
I wouldn't call him dirty. "Chippy" seems more like it. But all of Ottawa's Europeans are that way, except Chara. I saw him play recently, I expected him to be throwing people around and being a physical force. He was solid defensively, just not very physical.
I think Chara is alot more physical than you are giving him credit for.

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03-02-2004, 06:26 AM
  #32
Steve L*
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I think Havlat plays scared, when he thinks he is going to get hit, he does something stupid and gets his stick up. At the moment he is the worst stick artist I have seen in the league.

He is not careless, careless is when when you have your stick up high but dont mean to hit someone, for example Foote on Yzerman a couple of weeks ago.

Havlat has already admitted he tried to hit Recchi with his stick so he is a self confessed dirty player.

People argueing otherwise really dont have a leg to stand on.

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Old
03-02-2004, 08:27 AM
  #33
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He's a dirty dirty rat. A Hav-rat.

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Old
03-02-2004, 09:21 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
He reminds me a bit of Theoren Fleury back when he was a good hockey player.
Good call. Fleury was a guy who let his emotions get the best of him the same way Havlat does.

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03-02-2004, 10:24 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting004
There's a difference between playing with an edge and being dirty. Havlat doesn't look to hurt people...he just gets pissed off when he's constantly being grabbed, slashed or hooked. That isn't dirty. I'd likely be pretty pissed off myself if I was that good and some grinder could do that to me without getting a penalty.
I hope you are not refering to Reechi as a grinder.

I don't think Havlat is dirty just careless. He may not have intent to injure when getting his stick up in someones face but must be aware what he is doing.

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03-02-2004, 10:30 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
He's a dirty dirty rat. A Hav-rat.

Other Dave
The funny thing is with his facial hair, he actually looks like a rat, the resemblance is uncanny!

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Old
03-02-2004, 12:11 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Daddy
Why does Havlat need to fight? That's not his game, and there's nothing wrong with that. It certainly doesn't make him a worse players, nor would it make him better if he did drop the gloves. He still plays with an edge and scores great goals. Doesn't drop the gloves? Who cares
He doesn't need to "fight". The only single "fight" he's ever had was the purse swinging affair with mrs. Yannick Trembley.
He needs to get his ass pummeled though.

And most people do care if a dirty player fights or not. That's what seperates the the cheap players from the tough.

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Old
03-02-2004, 12:13 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
The funny thing is with his facial hair, he actually looks like a rat, the resemblance is uncanny!
Don't bother trying to hide your blatent bias against Havlat or anything... real objective.

Havlat plays with an edge, he's always been a ***** disturber. He's prone to pulling a stupid stunt, like he did with Recchi, but it's a type of attitude the Sens need. Havlat is not a dirty player that goes out and looks for cheap shots, I know this because I've watched him his whole career. His game actually has nothing to do with cheap shots, as it solely relies on puck possession and speed. When the only way the opposition can contain him is hack, hook, obstruct and couple that with his edge you're going to get a few explosions. I'm not justifying them as acceptable, but I think the price he pays in suspensions, fines, stereotypes is something that gives him a stronger identity and right now it's something the Sens need.

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Old
03-02-2004, 12:35 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbl1p
Don't bother trying to hide your blatent bias against Havlat or anything... real objective.
I don't think it matters if he is biased against Havlat or not because he's right. When Havlat gets the whisper thin moustache going and those few little chin hairs, he looks just like a rat.

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03-02-2004, 12:36 PM
  #40
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Is Havlat dirty? Absolutely.

Is that a bad thing for Ottawa? Heck no.

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Old
03-02-2004, 12:36 PM
  #41
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Cross-checking involves hitting with the stick held between the hands. A forearm is not a cross-check. Two players were guilty of stick fouls in the Havlat incident -- Recchi and John Leclair.

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Old
03-02-2004, 12:37 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbl1p
Don't bother trying to hide your blatent bias against Havlat or anything... real objective.

Havlat plays with an edge, he's always been a ***** disturber. He's prone to pulling a stupid stunt, like he did with Recchi, but it's a type of attitude the Sens need. Havlat is not a dirty player that goes out and looks for cheap shots, I know this because I've watched him his whole career. His game actually has nothing to do with cheap shots, as it solely relies on puck possession and speed. When the only way the opposition can contain him is hack, hook, obstruct and couple that with his edge you're going to get a few explosions. I'm not justifying them as acceptable, but I think the price he pays in suspensions, fines, stereotypes is something that gives him a stronger identity and right now it's something the Sens need.
Nice spin, do you work for the government?

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Old
03-02-2004, 02:30 PM
  #43
paxtang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_fan
Cross-checking involves hitting with the stick held between the hands. A forearm is not a cross-check. Two players were guilty of stick fouls in the Havlat incident -- Recchi and John Leclair.
Blatant homerism at its worst.

The reason I said Havlat should at times drop his gloves is because I don't think he has a dirty game. He flips out like you guys say. This results in dirty actions. I would accept this, if he woudl back it up. If he fights Recchi later, then that proves to me and everyone else, he lost it, but he isn't a reckless kid who will purposly hurt someone with his stick when he gets hooked. He got pissed and did something stupid, but proves that he still has respect for the other players. If you play an on the edge game, occasionaly that stuff happens, every physical player has happened to throw a cheap shot, whether by accident or not. If you willfully take your medicine, then that should prove that you aren't a reckelss player who will try to hurt people, you just play the game on the edge. If you hide behind the instigator like guys like Holik, then it just shows you as a coward.

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Old
03-02-2004, 03:28 PM
  #44
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I think you guys need to define "dirty" in order for people to decide whether or not he belongs. As far as I'm concerned, a dirty player is someone who goes out of his way to piss off other players and uses cheap tactics while the referee isn't watching.

Havlat doesn't fit in this description as far as I'm concerned as he always does his actions as a retaliation of sorts. If anything, he reminds me a little of Rocket Richard. A skilled player with a short fuse who reacts before thinking about the consequences.

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Old
03-02-2004, 04:22 PM
  #45
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This is still going on?

As Rob Ray put it..Havlat is buying himself some time and space ..now opponents will think twice about hooking him down or whatever because they think he is a little careless with the stick. And all those infractions he committed were largely due to the fact that a player like Cairns was performing some kind of wrestling manoeveur on him.

Who cares if he plays a little dirty? You need to have that sort of edge to gain an advantage in this league nowadays especially if you are a speedy, skilled player like Havlat.

And dont confuse Martin Havlat with Daniel Alfredsson ( who looks like a rat with that stache)

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Old
03-02-2004, 04:32 PM
  #46
paxtang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by south-sentral
This is still going on?

As Rob Ray put it..Havlat is buying himself some time and space ..now opponents will think twice about hooking him down or whatever because they think he is a little careless with the stick. And all those infractions he committed were largely due to the fact that a player like Cairns was performing some kind of wrestling manoeveur on him.

Who cares if he plays a little dirty? You need to have that sort of edge to gain an advantage in this league nowadays especially if you are a speedy, skilled player like Havlat.

And dont confuse Martin Havlat with Daniel Alfredsson ( who looks like a rat with that stache)
Ok, if you are fine with him being a dirty gutless puke who will never back up his actions fine. Ray is simply saying that because he is on his team, if he was back on the Sabres he would love the chance to punch Havlat's brains in.

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Old
03-02-2004, 04:49 PM
  #47
Mats_Hallin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by south-sentral
This is still going on?

As Rob Ray put it..Havlat is buying himself some time and space ..now opponents will think twice about hooking him down or whatever because they think he is a little careless with the stick. And all those infractions he committed were largely due to the fact that a player like Cairns was performing some kind of wrestling manoeveur on him.

Who cares if he plays a little dirty? You need to have that sort of edge to gain an advantage in this league nowadays especially if you are a speedy, skilled player like Havlat.

And dont confuse Martin Havlat with Daniel Alfredsson ( who looks like a rat with that stache)
I can't believe this bs.
So Matt Johnson is a mentally retarded pitbull as some poster said for his slash on Cooke while little Sens Frodo Halvat was just buying himself some time and space when he crosschecked Recchi?
I don't have a problem with cheapshots, they are a part of the game. But these things should be put in perspective.

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Old
03-02-2004, 05:05 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats_Hallin
He needs to get his ass pummeled though.
He's not going to though, and doesn't that make you hate him even more? :p

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Old
03-02-2004, 05:16 PM
  #49
paxtang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
He's not going to though, and doesn't that make you hate him even more? :p

Other Dave
Actually, it makes me enjoy it more, because it reinforces what I feel about most Sens players and their fans who defend him. He is a gutless puke, despite his skill set. I won't cry if he gets a stick in the chop, but I'm sure you will.

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Old
03-02-2004, 05:39 PM
  #50
south-sentral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats_Hallin
I can't believe this bs.
So Matt Johnson is a mentally retarded pitbull as some poster said for his slash on Cooke while little Sens Frodo Halvat was just buying himself some time and space when he crosschecked Recchi?
I don't have a problem with cheapshots, they are a part of the game. But these things should be put in perspective.
I haven't seen the slash against Cooke so I can't comment on that but chances are Johnson's slash on Cooke was probably intentional while Havlat's was not. Any 'illegal' thing Havlat does is out of frustration not sheer lunacy. If you don't have a problem with cheapshots then why are you fussing so much about the Havlat incident?

Love him or hate him. You will love him on your team..same thing goes with paxtong even if he is the undisputed Havlat hater.

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