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Old
11-19-2008, 07:59 PM
  #1
Mr.Sinister
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Goalie Bandaid Strategies

Same achilles heal for the Flyers which has lasted for many many years, whats Holmgren going to do for a goalie next year to ice a competitive team?

I cant see Biron and Niittymaki back again, so hes either has to trade, or go to Free Agency.

History would suggest the starting goalie comes via Free-Agency,

i see Holmgren getting Niklas Backstom at the Trade dealine or at Free Agency. Another possibility would be bringing back Brian Boucher, but Brian Boucher is that good because of the team in front of him. Another avenue would be Europe, I can see them signing a Free agent Swede like Jonas Gustavsson (this guy is the next Backstrom) , being conservative, but the Flyers are never conservative.

Anyways, what is everyones thoughts, cuz this weakness never seems to be addressed properly by the GM and it really is the weakest link for the FLyers for the last 10 years.

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11-19-2008, 08:06 PM
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Keep Biron and hope for a home run euro goalie

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11-19-2008, 08:18 PM
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Paul Holmgren will not bring back Boucher.

Seriously?


Boucher?

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11-19-2008, 08:24 PM
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if our starting goalie next year is brian boucher..... FAIL.

unless they make some kind of move or find someone from europe i'd have to think that biron will probably be back on a 1-2 year deal. i wish we had a decent goalie prospect.

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11-19-2008, 08:27 PM
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Look at San Jose. With Nabakov injured, Boucher is playing great.

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11-19-2008, 08:27 PM
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Mr.Sinister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sinister View Post
Same achilles heal for the Flyers which has lasted for many many years, whats Holmgren going to do for a goalie next year to ice a competitive team?

I cant see Biron and Niittymaki back again, so hes either has to trade, or go to Free Agency.

History would suggest the starting goalie comes via Free-Agency,

i see Holmgren getting Niklas Backstom at the Trade dealine or at Free Agency. Another possibility would be bringing back Brian Boucher, but Brian Boucher is that good because of the team in front of him. Another avenue would be Europe, I can see them signing a Free agent Swede like Jonas Gustavsson (this guy is the next Backstrom) , being conservative, but the Flyers are never conservative.

Anyways, what is everyones thoughts, cuz this weakness never seems to be addressed properly by the GM and it really is the weakest link for the FLyers for the last 10 years.
Let me Clarify , Boucher returning to Flyers, 1%, all appologies

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11-19-2008, 09:06 PM
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How about Dubnyk or Deslauriers from Edmonton? I can't see EDM holding on to both of them, especially with Garon around. With Pisani out long term they might be willing to take on a certain veteran winger who is a UFA at the end of the year, but it would take a prospect as well to get it done. Who that prospect might be is the debatable part. How badly do we want a solid goalie waiting in the wings, especially when we are so stacked up front?

Of course this means having Biron back for at least another year, but that's hardly a deplorable situation.

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11-19-2008, 09:14 PM
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y in a million years would we not sign Biron? He's wat 30-31? been solid as far as starters go. Great stats, huge saves...amazing in playoffs. I dunno man my bets on Biron in philly no doubt.

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11-19-2008, 09:44 PM
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I have been thinking about goaltenders recently and i think that the Flyers should resign Biron in the offseason IF the flyers can't add a beter tender through the deadline, or free agent, or even through a trade. I see Backstrom as a possibility, Pascal Leclaire as a possibility, even Kari Lehtonen.

If the flyers cannot bring in a starter to replace Biron, as i do not see him being the goalie that will backstop this team to a stanley cup (no disrespect to marty, he is a great goalie, but only plays as well as the team i front of him) they need to either draft a stud goaltender or acquire one in a trade. What would a Pavelic out of Atlanta cost, a Birnier out of LA cost? My bet is alot, but i think a young goalie signed to a long term contract pending their early preformance could be good, to go along with richie.

It seems, as the initial posts have indicated that the Flyers always seem to lack that game breaker in between the pipes, who was the last to don the Flyers Jersey?

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11-19-2008, 10:13 PM
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There's only so much we can do with the cap. We have great forwards, trying to build good D, we won't be able to have a stud goalie (unless we draft him). My money is on Biron returning, and hopefully picking up some talent on D.

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11-19-2008, 10:40 PM
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they don't need a bandaid they need a ****ing transplant. I'd go after a young goaltender. Find someone to fill the whole for a year (Biron or Nitty) would do and let that young guy be the back up and then take over the following year.

I don't want to end up paying out the ear for a guy like Backstrom who is in the same general sphere as Biron. Doesn't make sense.

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11-20-2008, 08:22 AM
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Not boucher, he's a NHL backup at best. He's one of the streakiest goalies you'll see, he'll have 4 straight shutouts and then be awful for 4 games. If you saw the SJ vs chicago game, he didn't look stellar, they just outscored the other team. You basically have to get lucky and have a goalie get on a hot streak during the playoffs(cam ward anyone), or be detroit and be so good, you just need a goalie who doesn't let in weak ones. And not letting your goalie out to dry like the flyers did the first month of the season helps as well. You can't ask your goalie to steal every series, at some point, you just have to be the better team. Once the pens committed to playing better defense instead of outscoring teams, it was like throwing a switch, the flyers were outcoached in the pens series, not out goaltended. The flyers were relying on their scoring talent and kimmo and coburn to win them games, it was checkers vs chess. But the flyers loosing their top pair is a goalie problem?

The goalie who's going to pitch a shutout every playoff game and lead them to victory doesn't exist, not in the first round, not in europe, not on this planet. The "stud" goalies who did win the cup, had a lot of help on the backend. Chris Osgood won the stanley cup last year, proves he's a winner, could the Flyers win a cup with him? Giggy didn't win until they got pronger and neidermier. And marty brodeur has a unit of 5 guys committed to preventing entry into the zone and making his life easier. Good defense wins cups, goalies can get you there, but eventually you've got to outplay the other team.

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11-20-2008, 08:39 AM
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Cory Schneider - With Luongo, this kid isn't going to play for the Canucks.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/cory_schneider

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=78704

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11-20-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Paul Holmgren will not bring back Boucher.

Seriously?


Boucher?
My sentiments.

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11-20-2008, 09:15 AM
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turkinaa
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I like Boucher, but he is streaky and a back-up at best. As kicksave27 pointed out, he gets really long shut-out periods followed by not being able to stop a beach ball. I was hoping that last season when he was still signed to the Flyers we would have moved Nitty for a prospect goalie and used Boucher as a back-up. Didn't happen, focus forward.

I think that given the last few drafts, the Flyers have had difficulties getting their early round goalie talent to develop (and often end up traded - Ouellet, Pelletier, Boucher) or trying to get European goalies over (Chechmanek, Malek). Far too often we end up trading for or FA signing veteran goalies to keep with the win now mind set, but it just leaves that hole in net. We don't need Hackets or Vanbiesbroucks. Pretty soon the Flyers will have to try draft a few goalies and see which ones pan out (another 1st round try - we haven't had a goalie picked before round 3 since 1999). I mean we have goalies in the system, but none of the are sure #1 goalies if they even reach the NHL.

We have to bite the bullet and either trade for a prospect G (losing a vet forward or prospect forward) or draft a goalie before round 3.

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11-20-2008, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
Cory Schneider - With Luongo, this kid isn't going to play for the Canucks.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/cory_schneider

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=78704
'Cept that maybe Vancouver is running Luongo into the ground, and maybe they'll need their kid sooner than expected.

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Old
11-20-2008, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
I like Boucher, but he is streaky and a back-up at best. As kicksave27 pointed out, he gets really long shut-out periods followed by not being able to stop a beach ball. I was hoping that last season when he was still signed to the Flyers we would have moved Nitty for a prospect goalie and used Boucher as a back-up. Didn't happen, focus forward.

I think that given the last few drafts, the Flyers have had difficulties getting their early round goalie talent to develop (and often end up traded - Ouellet, Pelletier, Boucher) or trying to get European goalies over (Chechmanek, Malek). Far too often we end up trading for or FA signing veteran goalies to keep with the win now mind set, but it just leaves that hole in net. We don't need Hackets or Vanbiesbroucks. Pretty soon the Flyers will have to try draft a few goalies and see which ones pan out (another 1st round try - we haven't had a goalie picked before round 3 since 1999). I mean we have goalies in the system, but none of the are sure #1 goalies if they even reach the NHL.

We have to bite the bullet and either trade for a prospect G (losing a vet forward or prospect forward) or draft a goalie before round 3.
It's tough to pull out solid goaltending prospects in the draft. Probably moreso than in other positions. There are solid bonafides, and then there are guys who literally come out of nowhere.

One problem that any Flyers GM has or will have is that we don't have the patience to cultivate a new goaltender. It's win now.

I don't see replacing Biron unless he bolts for ridiculous money someplace else. There's no reason to get into the free agent goaltender shuffle, it's rarely satisfying (ask the Caps how the like Theodore).

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11-20-2008, 09:29 AM
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'Cept that maybe Vancouver is running Luongo into the ground, and maybe they'll need their kid sooner than expected.
He's also only 29 years old.

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11-20-2008, 09:34 AM
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wonder if maybe its not just the goalies but more of the coaching. san jose consistently has great keepers and i can't help but think it has something to do with their coaches as well as their scouts. we've had some talented goalies who play over their heads, but never take it to that next level. maybe we need to upgrade our goalie coach.

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11-20-2008, 09:44 AM
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wonder if maybe its not just the goalies but more of the coaching. san jose consistently has great keepers and i can't help but think it has something to do with their coaches as well as their scouts. we've had some talented goalies who play over their heads, but never take it to that next level. maybe we need to upgrade our goalie coach.
But, but, but...we have Rejean Lemlin!

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11-20-2008, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
wonder if maybe its not just the goalies but more of the coaching. san jose consistently has great keepers and i can't help but think it has something to do with their coaches as well as their scouts. we've had some talented goalies who play over their heads, but never take it to that next level. maybe we need to upgrade our goalie coach.
Well, they had a string of what? Three good caliber goaltenders? Except they all came up at the same time, so they traded two away. If they were so good at consistently developing goaltenders, why did they need to acquire Boucher as a backup last year?

I see your point about coaching, though. And it may not be that NHL level coaching but the development coaching.

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11-20-2008, 10:56 AM
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I think Marty will be resigned. He had a real horrible slump at the beginning of the year but he is playing very well at the moment. Let's see how it looks at the trade deadline.

Not sure about Niitty, although I'd like him to stay. However, I could see Scott Munroe climb up the ranks this year. BTW, do the Flyers have some kind of deal with Huntsville, Alabama? Jared Ross is from there, Munroe went to College there.

As for Free Agent goalies: I really like Khabibulin, but I'm not sure what Chicago is going to do. I think they could try to trade Huet and resign Khabibulin. Anyways, Khabby is probably out of our prize class anyways.

Boston also has a strange situation. Both Thomas and Fernandez are playing very well this season and both are turning UFA next season. Both would be within our Prize class and Thomas clearly is outplaying Marty at the moment.

The last option I find viable is Niklas Backstrom. A very capable goaltender who could come at a decent price, even though it will certainly get jacked should he not sign somewhere before the Free Agency period begins. However, he is also largely unproven in the playoffs.

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11-20-2008, 11:30 AM
  #23
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I see your point about coaching, though. And it may not be that NHL level coaching but the development coaching.
Lemelin used to be the goalie coach for both the flyers and phantoms.(worked out so well didn't it) Now neil little is working with the phantoms. Most canadian jr teams do not have their own goalie coaches(they have roving consultants), alot of euro nations have a goalie coach in their development program. Jukka Ropanen for the fins is one of the best, he developed kiper, nitty, kari, etc.

Birons utter failure in the shootouts and just plain not improving on obvious holes in his game(such as lateral movement while down in the bf) are direct results of Lemelin not fixing the problems. Most goalies growing up only have proper instruction during week long camps and maybe a few weekends during the year. They can fix a ton of stuff. Biron has Lemelin, who's only job is to coach him and he can't fix little things?

The sharks and ducks have two of the best coaches, i'd try to cherry pick one of their backups if you can

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Old
11-20-2008, 12:22 PM
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Every one is assuming that they can resign Biron if they want to. Obviously if he continues to have a bad season they wonít want to. Realistically if he ends up having a good year he will be asking for Huet type money. Can/will the give him $5.6mm per year? They are already up against the cap for next season and it isnít even here yet. They have $49mm committed for 16 players. They would need to make a trade probably just to fit Biron. If they are making trade why not do it for a better, younger goalie? My guess is this is Bironís last season with the Flyers unless he is will to take discount to stay.

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11-20-2008, 12:24 PM
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Every one is assuming that they can resign Biron if they want to. Obviously if he continues to have a bad season they wonít want to. Realistically if he ends up having a good year he will be asking for Huet type money. Can/will the give him $5.6mm per year? They are already up against the cap for next season and it isnít even here yet. They have $49mm committed for 16 players. They would need to make a trade probably just to fit Biron. If they are making trade why not do it for a better, younger goalie? My guess is this is Bironís last season with the Flyers unless he is will to take discount to stay.
Such as and who are you trading for this better, younger goalie?

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