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Old
11-20-2008, 04:36 PM
  #26
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Therrien’s latest comments about Kostitsyn and Siberia were not only stupid and offensive, they were also very ignorant.
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insults presented as ‘humour’
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and to a lesser extent Dave Morissette and Gabriel Grégoire who were probably hired as part of some special programs for the mentally challenged.
Irony anyone?

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11-20-2008, 04:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MikhailGrabovski View Post
Irony anyone?
No way! I'm funny and I know it! No way am I playing the comedian card only once I get caught saying something offensive. That ace is in my sleeve from the start!

Nothing about Perron riding the small but to school?

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11-20-2008, 04:48 PM
  #28
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alright, you're not playing the comedian card? well it still is stupid and offensive

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11-20-2008, 04:52 PM
  #29
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I'm not sure who you feel I've offended with this. Morissette and Grégoire or the people who are really part of these programs?

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11-20-2008, 04:57 PM
  #30
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The list is pretty near perfect Haddock. But overall your last sentence should have bolded. "That’s what? Ten-twelve guys out of almost eighty counting the guests, the collaborators, the athletes writing columns. Is the media as evil as some make it sound to be? Could it be that we see things darker than they are when the team is not winning? Of course it is. Take a deep breath, chill the f out, stay away from yellow journalism at all time and enjoy the intelligent coverage." Because that is the core issue here. There are 10-12 losers, and of those only about 4 who are true snakes, giving the rest of the media a bad name.

Out of you list I place Toad at the top of the list. The worst are the bolded ones. The rest are certainly not as revolting.

Jack Todd-Barely deserves mention. However, if ever there was a person who could be used to describe "yellow journalism," it's Todd.

Michel Villeneuve-I stopped caring about what he had to say a long time ago. He's tolerable on La Zone.

Réjean Tremblay-The guy just doesn't matter anymore. I imagine him writing his columns with hand carved pens dipped in snake venom. There's so much bitterness in what he writes.

Jean-Charles Lajoie-He's moving up the ranks! Soon he'll be up there with legends like Todd, Tremblay and Villeneuve. Keep at it JC and soon people will curse your name with as much vehemence as the other spineless members of the Montreal media.

Michel Bergeron-The best combination you can ask for in a commentator: loud and ignorant. Seems like a nice guy and is clearly passionate about hockey, but man is he backwards in his thinking.

Useless but not pernicious:

Gaston Therrien- Lacks the necessary skills in evaluating hockey to be an effective analyst.

Marc Bureau-Seems like a really miserable person. Not quite a hall of shame guy as he really only does 110%, but he certainly doesn't add anything to a discussion.

Gabriel Grégoire-He was funny whenever the topic of fighting came up on 110% or CKAC. Other than that pretty useless.

The guys I give a little leeway to:

PJ Stock-I tend to give him a free pass because he seems like a good guy, but he could use some more professionalism.

Jean Perron-He's an intellectual mind with a moron's mouth. I really wish he would cut the xenophobic stuff because I like the guy and I think he knows his hockey, but he gets sidetracked easily and that's when puts his foot in his mouth.

Dave Morissette- I cut him some slack because again he seems like a good guy. Doesn't always add much but I don't think he's malicious like Villeneuve/Tremblay or woefully incompetent like Todd.

Stubbs and Hickey don't deserve to be on the yellow list, but they certainly get a free pass for a lot of mediocre articles. Some of their stuff is really lazy and repetitive.

So, to summarize I would have even fewer people on my list than Haddock. To me there are really only 5 "evil" members of the Montreal media. They are persistently pernicious, constantly conniving and nearly noxious to one's health. The rest range from merely mediocre to slightly sub-par.

But it's fairly easy to stay away from the bad ones because there more good content than bad.

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Old
11-20-2008, 05:00 PM
  #31
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I have to agree, this was a very well written and interesting post.

But there's a name I didn't see in that list and nobody mentionned him. Yvan Martineau. He IS the definition of yellow journalism. He's the one always asking questions to which the answers can easily be taken out of context. And he uses that alot.

Exemple (after Brière's first visit in MTL - the booing):
Martineau: So Daniel, do you think the people from Montreal lack class?
Brière: Well they pay for their tickets and have the right to express themselves
(Martineau could've stop there, but of course, he didn't)
Martineau: But Daniel, they booed you because you didn't sign with their team!...
Brière: Like I said, they have the right to express themselves... (visibly annoyed)
Martineau: Well does it bother you that you're public enemy no1 right now in MTL?
Brière: I play in Philly, so no (loved that answer)

I also developped the reflex of changing channel as soon as I hear JC Lajoie's voice. It's better for my health.

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Old
11-20-2008, 05:13 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Haddock View Post
Blanchard, now head of the sport section of La Presse
Michel Blanchard hasn't been the head of La Presse sports section since 1998. He's been retired for three years, apart from a certain number of columns he had to write every year. I think he's done now.

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11-20-2008, 06:14 PM
  #33
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Michel Blanchard hasn't been the head of La Presse sports section since 1998. He's been retired for three years, apart from a certain number of columns he had to write every year. I think he's done now.
You could have kept the "iirc" that I put in there.

I clearly did not recall correctly.


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11-20-2008, 07:22 PM
  #34
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Haddock, thanks. I've wanted to see something like this for awile as the media itself interests me and I don't have broad enough knowledge of La P. and J de M to have even attempted it. Well done.

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11-21-2008, 01:45 AM
  #35
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The problem I think stems for this expantion in recent years of the Montreal Sports Talk show scenes of the last few years. The show 110% at TQS started to have an ermomous popularity with huge numbers where the concept was basicaly a dog cage debate show. The result of that was last year SRC created La Zone and this year RDS came up with L'Anti-Chambre. Around the same time a few years ago, a businessman smelled money, bought CKAC radio show and turned it into CKAC Sport where it's 24 hours a day of sports talk, mainly Habs talk all the time. What 110% and CKAC did was that from now on, everything became an opinion piece. Everything about sports has become opinions and journalism has been reduced to nothingess. The big men with the dollars have realised that the model of 110% of debates and opinions is a hot rod and controversy bring heat and as such makes people react, make people watch and it generate success. It's the Howard Stern shock jock mentality.

When I heard RDS had hired Michel Bergeron it was easy to read between the lines. The guy was the most controversial player of the top sports talk show 110%.

But what I would like to have is more integrity from a channel dedicated to sports like RDS. As a fan I want to have the most knowledgable guys there. I want some damn professionalism. I don't care if 110% stir **** up. I don't care what CKAC does because it's on radio and they need the ratings. But I wish RDS, the face of sports in Quebec, the representatives of the Habs in front of the World would know better. L'anti-chambre started interesting and different but it quickly turned into a 110% wannabe. And why? What is the point of that. As a sports fan I want to be informed, I don't want to see somebody crying the same thing a friend could say to me in a bar. And the reason why RDS is doing that is simple: money. That's the only thing they care about.

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11-21-2008, 02:11 AM
  #36
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Question: where the hell did they get the name l'anti-chambre from? What does it mean?

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11-21-2008, 07:28 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
The problem I think stems for this expantion in recent years of the Montreal Sports Talk show scenes of the last few years. The show 110% at TQS started to have an ermomous popularity with huge numbers where the concept was basicaly a dog cage debate show. The result of that was last year SRC created La Zone and this year RDS came up with L'Anti-Chambre. Around the same time a few years ago, a businessman smelled money, bought CKAC radio show and turned it into CKAC Sport where it's 24 hours a day of sports talk, mainly Habs talk all the time. What 110% and CKAC did was that from now on, everything became an opinion piece. Everything about sports has become opinions and journalism has been reduced to nothingess. The big men with the dollars have realised that the model of 110% of debates and opinions is a hot rod and controversy bring heat and as such makes people react, make people watch and it generate success. It's the Howard Stern shock jock mentality.

When I heard RDS had hired Michel Bergeron it was easy to read between the lines. The guy was the most controversial player of the top sports talk show 110%.

But what I would like to have is more integrity from a channel dedicated to sports like RDS. As a fan I want to have the most knowledgable guys there. I want some damn professionalism. I don't care if 110% stir **** up. I don't care what CKAC does because it's on radio and they need the ratings. But I wish RDS, the face of sports in Quebec, the representatives of the Habs in front of the World would know better. L'anti-chambre started interesting and different but it quickly turned into a 110% wannabe. And why? What is the point of that. As a sports fan I want to be informed, I don't want to see somebody crying the same thing a friend could say to me in a bar. And the reason why RDS is doing that is simple: money. That's the only thing they care about.
I'm hardly an authority as I only watch short clips of the shows, but I have the impression that Bergeron has been slipping into a grandfather role on the show rather than saying anything too controversial.

I think what happens is that with the expansion of the industry, there are a lot of people working with little expertise.

Listen to the Team 990's morning show, Casavant and Price have been around, will criticize, fairly, but both have perspective. The 3rd guy Starr, who has improved a lot over the last few years, doesn't always get what they get.

I was driving home from somewhere just pre draft, and the Team had a few guys discussing whether Sundin would leave Toronto or not. They doubted it, talek about having to uproot his wife and kids. I got home, figured these guys, Campbell and McKenna, would be better served if they had facts, so I e mailed that the guy was single, no kids. Didn't matter, no real desire to get it right. It's a lack of quality control, because they'll quickly move on to something else.

My point is that it takes time to get the experience to be good at this, and by then, they aren't marketable .

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11-21-2008, 07:52 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Question: where the hell did they get the name l'anti-chambre from? What does it mean?
Antichambre is a vestibule in french. A hall, a waiting room....still makes no sense though. Really bad name...

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11-21-2008, 08:10 AM
  #39
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Great post!

Best of the best : Dany Dubé, Enrico Ciccone, Stephane Lebeau, Mathias Brunet, Marc-Antoine Godin, François Gagnon, Marc De Foy, Pat Hickey, Dave Stubbs, Joel Bouchard, Jacques Demers

Unbearable : Benoit Brunet, Alain ‘Le Baron’ Chantelois, Yannick Bouchard, Dave Morissette, Michel Langevin, Gabriel Grégoire, Gaston Therrien, Marc Bureau

Worst or the worst : Jean-Charles Lajoie


Last edited by gillyguzzler: 11-21-2008 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Forgot how much I can't stand Bureau and had to add him...
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11-21-2008, 05:31 PM
  #40
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Hi there Haddock you could add this link in the great legacy of Rejean Tremblay: http://radioego.com/ego/listen/608

This prove undoubtedly how Reggie use is newspaper for personal vendetta.

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Old
11-21-2008, 05:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Great post!

Best of the best : Dany Dubé, Enrico Ciccone, Stephane Lebeau, Mathias Brunet, Marc-Antoine Godin, François Gagnon, Marc De Foy, Pat Hickey, Dave Stubbs, Joel Bouchard, Jacques Demers

Unbearable : Benoit Brunet, Alain ‘Le Baron’ Chantelois, Yannick Bouchard, Dave Morissette, Michel Langevin, Gabriel Grégoire, Gaston Therrien, Marc Bureau

Worst or the worst : Jean-Charles Lajoie
+1 agreed. I would put Bureau right along side with J-C Lamarde

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11-21-2008, 06:31 PM
  #42
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The media isn't exactly evil, but it certainly needs more journalists and a lot less analysts. Analysts is such a safe escape from having to have integrity. The papers of course love controversy and questionable comments, but it would be nice to see some integrity back in hockey journalism. We put Bob McKenzie on a pedestal, but its obvious he deserves it when you got PJ Stock, Al Strachan, Gason and Rejean running amok.

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11-21-2008, 07:03 PM
  #43
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Patrick Roy's Father was interviewed by Melnick and his gang this afternoon. If an interviewer is skilled, you can actually learn things, maybe even change your opinion about things.

I saw M. Roy interviewed briefly on Antichambre and thought it was just an exercise for the panel to get across what points they had to make.

I listened for about 10 minutes today and feel like I know more than when I turned on the radio. That's why we have media, it's just a shame we don't have more quality.

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Old
11-22-2008, 04:26 AM
  #44
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I'm hardly an authority as I only watch short clips of the shows, but I have the impression that Bergeron has been slipping into a grandfather role on the show rather than saying anything too controversial.

I think what happens is that with the expansion of the industry, there are a lot of people working with little expertise.

Listen to the Team 990's morning show, Casavant and Price have been around, will criticize, fairly, but both have perspective. The 3rd guy Starr, who has improved a lot over the last few years, doesn't always get what they get.

I was driving home from somewhere just pre draft, and the Team had a few guys discussing whether Sundin would leave Toronto or not. They doubted it, talek about having to uproot his wife and kids. I got home, figured these guys, Campbell and McKenna, would be better served if they had facts, so I e mailed that the guy was single, no kids. Didn't matter, no real desire to get it right. It's a lack of quality control, because they'll quickly move on to something else.

My point is that it takes time to get the experience to be good at this, and by then, they aren't marketable .
Casavant is one of the few I feel has integrity and wouldn't turn everything into an opinion piece on a whim. For instance when he does play-by-play for any sport, he rarely say his opinion: he just describes what he's seeing as the play go on. In contrast to Pierre Houde who's going to describe things but then saying things like "what a bad play! what a mistake!". Can you imagine Bob Cole or any CBC play-by-play guys saying this?

As a whole, sometime I fear where the Montreal media are coming from, like if they had the proper teachers, guys with integrity, real newsmen to show up and comers journalist how it's done. The North American english press have had a long tradition of hard nose newsmen that would be serious about their medium, about checking facts, about professionalism. I wonder if the french side has had that or maybe the clumsiness is mainly related to sport journalism...? Or maybe that boiling latin blood has to do with the outburst and guys having less objectivity? Either it's hard finding truly good journalists. Even the veterans such as Pednault and Marc Defoy and others do not seem to have the stuff of great newsmen. When they talk they act and think like any other sports fans anywhere and they seem to be as clueless as us about most things. They say Pedneault has great contacts yet he never comes up and reveal things about anything. Something new that would make us see things differently. Like Pierre Lebrun does for instance.

Also the talk radio scene does not have a Bob McCown type in french Quebec. Heck we don't even have less than him. I mean a guy with integrity that's going go point by point about multiple subjects, about multiple sports and take something apart point by point. Somebody that's going to go in details about the business of sports for instance. If we look at CKAC the best guy is about the level of a PJ Stock.

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Old
11-22-2008, 07:25 AM
  #45
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Who are we talking about?
Haddock,

A nice job at whitewashing. A lot of writing on your part that paints a serene and tranquil landscape but you've taken your picture from a far far distance and ignored all the details. You would make a good spin doctor. As for some of the details:

Francois Gagnon and The Kovalev Affair. I read his (and his co-writer's) article where he claimed they went over the Russian transcript and made sure the translation was accurate. I remember asking myself but did you make sure the Russian transcript was authentic and then dismissed the thought because he's a journalist and should know his job.

To add insult to injury he went on a tirade on team 990 calling Kovalev a liar and when he was asked point blank do you have the tape of him saying these things, Francois answered yes. Lo and behold, we find out later that Francois had no tape, only an article. He further embarrassed himself when he went onto the team 990 and retracted his "Yes we have the tape" comment by declaring, "Well you know my English is not that good." His English is not that good yet he accepts a regular gig on an English station. That shows lots of respect for the anglophone population. Another lie on his part.

That's one example. Another: journalists - I use that term loosely - break into Koivu's hospital room and snap pictures of him when it was public knowledge that he was not to have any lights shine into his eyes.

Yet another. Jacques Demers going on team 990 and declaring that he read the report and yes Shane Doan did say ****ing frogs. Lo and behold, the report comes out. Shane Doan never said those words. Did Jacques retract his declaration. No.

Again with Jacques Demers. Last year when the Habs were in a slump, Jacques wrote a senile article where he made declarations that it was time for the leader to leave. He never named the player but it was obvious he meant Koivu. It was a gutless, stupid article. When the leader proved himself to be worthy, Jacques never apologized or retracted his comments.

These are some of the examples that come to mind early on a Saturday morning. I'm not going to bore the people on this site with more. But when your intention is to whitewash you step back and give an overall picture. You ignore the nitty gritty. That's what you've done.

Not to put too fine a point on it, you admit that Therrien's outburst lacked class to say the least. But ask yourself how he was able to get away with it and why was there no apology from the station?

And you know what I find most insulting about Therrien's outburst, it's not the fact that two Russians (he couldn't even get their nationality right) were taking jobs from nice Quebecois boys but that he makes assumptions and then runs away with those assumptions.

Where's the proof that the Kostitsyns' threatened to leave? The first time I heard of it was from that idiot.

From your posts I get the impression you're a tolerant and fair person but I also think you tend to ignore details that don't suit your outlook on things.


Last edited by onice: 11-22-2008 at 07:32 AM.
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11-22-2008, 08:58 AM
  #46
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Yet another. Jacques Demers going on team 990 and declaring that he read the report and yes Shane Doan did say ****ing frogs. Lo and behold, the report comes out. Shane Doan never said those words. Did Jacques retract his declaration. No.

Is this the reason he no longer comes on the air on english radio? I seem to remember him being a semi regular on Melnyk's show but haven't heard him in a long time. I was wondering why..... now I know.

Demers is turning into a bit of a French version of Don Cherry..... and he always looks agitated about something whenever he's on the air..... Too bad, I used to enjoy his commentary. His act is wearing thin, hope RDS comes up with something better.

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11-22-2008, 09:02 AM
  #47
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Haddock,

A nice job at whitewashing. A lot of writing on your part that paints a serene and tranquil landscape but you've taken your picture from a far far distance and ignored all the details. You would make a good spin doctor. As for some of the details:

Francois Gagnon and The Kovalev Affair. I read his (and his co-writer's) article where he claimed they went over the Russian transcript and made sure the translation was accurate. I remember asking myself but did you make sure the Russian transcript was authentic and then dismissed the thought because he's a journalist and should know his job.

To add insult to injury he went on a tirade on team 990 calling Kovalev a liar and when he was asked point blank do you have the tape of him saying these things, Francois answered yes. Lo and behold, we find out later that Francois had no tape, only an article. He further embarrassed himself when he went onto the team 990 and retracted his "Yes we have the tape" comment by declaring, "Well you know my English is not that good." His English is not that good yet he accepts a regular gig on an English station. That shows lots of respect for the anglophone population. Another lie on his part.

That's one example. Another: journalists - I use that term loosely - break into Koivu's hospital room and snap pictures of him when it was public knowledge that he was not to have any lights shine into his eyes.

Yet another. Jacques Demers going on team 990 and declaring that he read the report and yes Shane Doan did say ****ing frogs. Lo and behold, the report comes out. Shane Doan never said those words. Did Jacques retract his declaration. No.

Again with Jacques Demers. Last year when the Habs were in a slump, Jacques wrote a senile article where he made declarations that it was time for the leader to leave. He never named the player but it was obvious he meant Koivu. It was a gutless, stupid article. When the leader proved himself to be worthy, Jacques never apologized or retracted his comments.

These are some of the examples that come to mind early on a Saturday morning. I'm not going to bore the people on this site with more. But when your intention is to whitewash you step back and give an overall picture. You ignore the nitty gritty. That's what you've done.

Not to put too fine a point on it, you admit that Therrien's outburst lacked class to say the least. But ask yourself how he was able to get away with it and why was there no apology from the station?

And you know what I find most insulting about Therrien's outburst, it's not the fact that two Russians (he couldn't even get their nationality right) were taking jobs from nice Quebecois boys but that he makes assumptions and then runs away with those assumptions.

Where's the proof that the Kostitsyns' threatened to leave? The first time I heard of it was from that idiot.

From your posts I get the impression you're a tolerant and fair person but I also think you tend to ignore details that don't suit your outlook on things.
Where to start? And why should I really? I think you’ve made it clear over the threads about media that you are clearly in the group who think that they’re responsible for everything wrong surrounding the team.. Kind of hard for me to even think that whatever I write will convince you of anything. I’m back from the night shift, I’m not going to bed for a little while, you took the time to write, might as well take a look at your points.

The whole Kovalev affair has been beaten to death around these parts. I still don’t know the real, full story. I’m not siding with the journalists from La Presse, Kovalev, or the russian journalist involved. To pretend to have the thruth with a capital T on that subject is not something I’m ready to claim. Both La Presse and Kovy moved on, I suggest you do the same.

That a photographer from the JdM took a picture of Koivu’s eye n the hospital is very unfortunate indeed and reflects more on the photographer than the journalist. Blame him, that’s what I do.

Demers read the report that said that the ref tought they heard Doan say those words. I heard him say on RDS that he now believes Doan and that Nagy was probably the one guilty. No controversy there as everyone tought Doan was involved at first. Demers is clearly not one of my favorite media personnality, I think I made it clear in my original post. I just don’t see the point in asking for him to retract or apologize for a personnal opinion about last year’s leadership. Last time I checked, he’s allowed to have opinions, no matter how crazy they sound, as long as he’s not being disrespectful, wich he isn’t.

By all means, write to RDS, write to Therrien, write to the CRTC, write to RIS and RDS’ sponsors, force the man off the air, force the network to act against him. Don’t insinuate what you’re insuniating by asking me how and why he got away with saying what he said. Don’t just imply something like that, come out and say it.

I appreciate your reply but I don’t like being told that I’m whitewashing the situation and acting as a spin doctor. I see the same bad examples of journalism, and quite frankly, of bad human beings, in the Montréal media market. I’m just not ready to paint them all with the same brush as some are eager to do. The gray zone is an awesome place to be.

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11-22-2008, 09:59 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
What a long post. I read it all, but I sure hope you have another use for your text - you study journalism, maybe? Otherwise, it seems like throwing pearls at swine, if you catch my drift.

I agree with most but not all you write. For instance, I don't find Villeneuve that objectionable on CKAC, maybe I've missed some bad parts, I don't know. He had an excellent interview with Patrick Roy yesterday, really got him to open up. Réjean Tremblay has recently gained respect for Gainey apparently. He wrote a column last month or so that was very respectful of him and recognized not only his hockey acumen but also his human qualities. It was a good read.

Hickey and Stubbs are very often innaccurate in their reporting and have in the past referred to francophone quebecers as "french", which bothers me a lot. You know, Bertuzzi, Gretzky, Podborski are "canadian", but Gagné and Pelletier are "french". Imagine for a second that Villeneuve was to refer to PK Subban as "african"...

Stubbs last year had a write-up of an interview with Gordie Howe, in which Howe referred a lot to Jean Béliveau. Stubbs, when quoting Howe, wrote things like "John was a heckuva player", "John was a leader", etc.. Now, I don't expect Mr. Howe to know how to pronounce "Jean" (he is, after all, canadian). But you would expect a Montréal journalist to at least know better. But no, I guess Béliveau didn't deserve that kind of respect.

All in all, your analysis is interesting, but, like I said, I hope you didn't write all that for naught.

Edit : and that is probably my longest post ever on HF.
Not sure this is a fair assessment of Dave Stubbs. Stubbs has a tremendous amount of respect for the history of the game in Montreal and for it's players, past and present. That respect is built into most of his feature articles. I was heavily involved in one of his articles a couple years back and discoverd he was a pleasure to deal with. My best guess is that a line such as "John was a leader" was used to create a feeling of authenticity to his readers.

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11-22-2008, 10:08 AM
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Lone Rogue
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
Not sure this is a fair assessment of Dave Stubbs. Stubbs has a tremendous amount of respect for the history of the game in Montreal and for it's players, past and present. That respect is built into most of his feature articles. I was heavily involved in one of his articles a couple years back and discoverd he was a pleasure to deal with. My best guess is that a line such as "John was a leader" was used to create a feeling of authenticity to his readers.
I'm pretty sure Gordie always called Beliveau "John" as a nick name. He respected him more than any other player, so having a nickname for one of your rivals is not a big surprise, and the nickname simply anglicizing "Jean" is probably an easy name.

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11-22-2008, 10:08 AM
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compared to the Toronto media that's just as bad or maybe worse, that's alot.

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