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You can see why NHL Players don't want NFL type deal

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:10 AM
  #51
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
The logic is inescapable. A couple of teams fold and the league will be much healthier and fans will be much happier. Salaries and as a result, ticket prices will go down. Profits go up for the survivors. The quality of play will go up. If more than a couple teams fold, so much the better. Why do we favour a lockout and new system? I can understand that for fans of the bankrupt teams but sometimes the good of the many should take precedence over the good of the few.
Your logic is escaping me.

A couple of teams fold. So you are tell me that will increase quality and interest. You want me to believe salaries and ticket prices will go down?

Just like I said, living a dream. Dynasties are a dream. Better quality with lower ticket prices is a dream.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
Give me one good reason why that shouldn't happen. Give me one good reason why Edmonton has to have a team in the NHL. Or Pittsburgh if Mario doesn't get his rink.
Give me one good reason the NHL needs Tom "real fan" Benjamin?

Hope sells better then quality in todays sports world. If the NHL keeps all its current franchies and gives all of them, what the fans think, is an equal chance to win, the NHL will start making money hand over fist.

Salary caps dont kill dynasties. They were already killed by big contracts and big egos. Salary caps do increase competitive balance. Salary caps do give fans the feeling their team can win. Do they make every team mediocre? Thats up to you to decide.

Weneed to understand this is the business of hockey board not the I love dynasites cause Im a real fan board. Some type of salary cap system will allow the NHL to keep all its francihses and draw more casual fans. It will bring in more money. If that turns off Tom Benjamin so what. The NHL needs to do what it has to do to draw more fans not keep real fans.

Cause in the end we all know the real fans are going to keep watching no matter how much they complain about the new system.

Everyone take a look around at the other major sports. Its what the NHL is doing. Baseball, basketball, football. Which ones have a salary cap and which one is losing fans. What do you really the NHL will do?

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Old
03-09-2004, 01:05 PM
  #52
Tom_Benjamin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Your logic is escaping me.

A couple of teams fold. So you are tell me that will increase quality and interest. You want me to believe salaries and ticket prices will go down?
I don't believe this. To believe something that stupid, I'd have to believe player salaries affect ticket prices. The NHL tells me that and lots of fans who support salary caps tell me that it is true, but I think demand sets prices. I don't even think talent in the NHL is diluted but I'm told that is true, too.

If all that I have been told is true, getting rid of Edmonton is an excellent solution. If it is not true, what's the problem?

Quote:
Hope sells better then quality in todays sports world. If the NHL keeps all its current franchies and gives all of them, what the fans think, is an equal chance to win, the NHL will start making money hand over fist.
Hope sells better than quality. Now there's a sad comment, but it's probably true and not just in hockey. The product doesn't have to be any good as long as Madison Avenue exists.

There is a chump born every minute. It's too bad so many of them grow up to be hockey fans. Profits for billionaires are more important than the game. That's the business of hockey.

Sad.

Tom

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Old
03-11-2004, 07:46 AM
  #53
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
I don't believe this. To believe something that stupid, I'd have to believe player salaries affect ticket prices. The NHL tells me that and lots of fans who support salary caps tell me that it is true, but I think demand sets prices. I don't even think talent in the NHL is diluted but I'm told that is true, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
The logic is inescapable. A couple of teams fold and the league will be much healthier and fans will be much happier. Salaries and as a result, ticket prices will go down.
So are you saying player salaries do affect ticket prices or they dont?

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Old
03-11-2004, 04:23 PM
  #54
Tom_Benjamin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
So are you saying player salaries do affect ticket prices or they dont?
I haven't been clear enough for you? I'll simplify it. If you are right about the business of hockey, the correct solution is obvious. Get rid of Edmonton. I think you are wrong about the business of hockey so that it is not necessary, but stick to your guns. The inescapable conclusion to your argument is that the league should get rid of the Oilers.

I am so sick of Oiler fans and their whining I no longer care. If the owners lock out the players, fine, Edmonton's got to go. Too bad. Just desserts for Oiler fans.

Player salaries have zero impact on ticket prices. Demand sets ticket prices. I believe the owners - smart businessmen all - sit around and try to figure out how to get more from our pockets. I do not believe they sit around trying to figure out how to reduce prices. They charge as much as they possibly can for a ticket. They would charge that if every player played for ten cents and they would charge that if every player played for $10 million dollars. The owners try to collect every penny they can from every fan.

Tom


Last edited by Tom_Benjamin: 03-11-2004 at 04:41 PM.
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Old
03-11-2004, 05:36 PM
  #55
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IMO it's a little bit of both team alary and the demand, however it leans more in favor of the salary.... you see teams w/ smaller salaries w/ cheaper tix... not tlaking small market either, w/ the enormity of hockey in minnesota, the wild could be making a mint if it were all about the demand, but they keep their ticket prices relatively low last i can remember hearing... demand doesn't drive ticket prices as much as tom claims it does IMO,

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Old
03-13-2004, 04:21 PM
  #56
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dummy

Arguing with misinformed people who believe illogical things must be really frustrating.

Ottawa's payroll has gone from 27 million in 02 to 49 million this season.

Yeah, we really cant compete. We're selling out our suites left and right, have 12 straight sellouts and are going to surpass 96% capacity this year. In fact, in the last 14 games of the season, there have been exactly 400 unsold tickets. Thats it.


Demand sets prices. PERIOD. There is absolutely, positively NO way to get around it. You will NEVER be able to produce a logical argument to DEFY this. Impossible.

If Ottawa can sell 190 dollar tickets with a team that has a 33 million dollar payroll (last year) they will do it. PERIOD. If Ottawa wins the Cup this year (which wont happen unless Prusek gets his chance) then I guarantee every single seat will be full at the CC next year.

Team gets good, fans sell out games, (except in NJ) and the team gets expensive. Revenues from increased demand and ticket sales go to pay the increased payroll. Players in the NHL are paid mostly by AGE, not talent level. A 31 year old 75 point player will 95% of the time make more than a 24 yerar old 75 point player.


And it is simply idiotic to say that there isn't parity in the NHL today.

Stop being stupid.

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Old
03-15-2004, 12:30 PM
  #57
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Player salaries might have an effect on ticket prices, but there is no way a salary cap would reduce them. Teams will charge as much as they can get away with, without it negativley affecting attendances. Salaries go down, ticket prices stay constant, teams make more profit. That is the way it would happen.

There is the viewpoint that salaries are only high because of the higher ticket prices rather than the other way around. Afterall if teams didnt have the high income then there simply wouldnt be the money for players to demand. It is a vicous circle that has to be erradicated from not just hockey, but most sports for them to survive.

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Old
03-15-2004, 03:05 PM
  #58
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Player salaries do affect ticket prices, but, certainly they aren't the only determinant. I would agree with both sides here, partially. Player salaries come under the heading, "Overhead" and overhead definately effects prices, just as much as the market does, they go hand in hand. Right now, I would feel safe to say that overhead and market pressure are both at peak levels. Customers are strapped to afford current prices, and prices can't reasonably come down unless overhead falls, if the largest determinant in overhead is player salaries...
-HckyFght

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:23 AM
  #59
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
I haven't been clear enough for you?
Youve made it perfectly clear that you want to go back to the old days and the old ways. You really dont care about anything more then what you think is best for you not the league.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
The logic is inescapable. A couple of teams fold and the league will be much healthier and fans will be much happier. Salaries and as a result, ticket prices will go down. Profits go up for the survivors. The quality of play will go up.
If you swear demand sets prices, which Im not arguing, why do you think ticket prices would go down with increased quality? Would demand decrease with increased quality? Why do you say salaries AND AS A RESULT ticket prices would go down?

Your logic is still escaping me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
I am so sick of Oiler fans and their whining I no longer care. If the owners lock out the players, fine, Edmonton's got to go. Too bad. Just desserts for Oiler fans.
Im sick of Tom "real fan" Benjamin whining and I no longer care. If the NHL adopts a salary cap and Tom Benjamin stops watching fine. Too bad. Just deserts for real fans.

One thing is inescapable. The NHL and NBA are popular, MLB is not. A salary cap has been good for business in the NFL and NBA, lack of a cap has been bad for MLB. What do you really think the NHL will do? Whats good for the business of hockey is inescapable screw the real fans.

Why does the NHL need Tom Benjamin?

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Old
03-16-2004, 04:47 PM
  #60
Trottier
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While one can see why NHL players don't want an NFL type deal, still baffled why some fans of the sport want to see one.

Sure, may be great for business (putting aside that there is enough evidence to the contrary). Sure it may make the sport more popular. (Again, based on what evidence, I wonder. Don't think there are hoards of would-be US fans just waiting for a new CBA and lower ticket prices before becoming NHL zealots.

A NFL like salary cap, however, would be wretched for long-time followers of the sport. ("Long-time" being defined as old enough to remember seeing #99 play. :p ) Just look at some of the players who NFL teams are having to let go, and the absurd amount of player movement (read: roster upheaval) taking place during the current offseason FA period in football.

Do you like that promising rookie on your NHL team? Don't get too attached; he'll be free to leave via FA in four seasons! See that solid, gritty 28 y/o second line winger? Unfortunately, he'll have to be cut in the offseason in order for your team to afford to keep your first line center and stay under the cap. And championships? Better win one today - and forget any thoughts about repeating - for your team's entire roster could be comprised of strangers next season. Some call that parity. Others of us call it socialism leading directly to mediocrity (inferior overall play, leaguewide).

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