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Panthers Waive Wade Belak

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Old
11-24-2008, 12:11 PM
  #101
Georgia Panther
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Not surprising he went unclaimed considering he's under contract through next season. Teams would want to dump a like contract on the Panthers to take on a multi-year and/or expensive contract. The only player on the Panthers who might get claimed is Horton and even then I think a team would swallow hard before taking on a contract so long. It would be much easier to trade him but contracts, not just picks, would have to come back in return.

PS-I forgot about Bouw. He definitely would get claimed as well as Boynton and Skrastins who are in the last year of their contracts and playing decently.


Last edited by Georgia Panther: 11-24-2008 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Memory Going
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11-24-2008, 12:13 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Not surprising he went unclaimed considering he's under contract through next season. Teams would want to dump a like contract on the Panthers to take on a multi-year and/or expensive contract. The only player on the Panthers who might get claimed is Horton and even then I think a team would swallow hard before taking on a contract so long. It would be much easier to trade him but contracts, not just picks, would have to come back in return.
Really GP? You're not that naive are you?

90% of this team would get picked up off waivers and you're foolish to think otherwise. The only guys who WOULDN'T get picked up on waivers are the ones who probably should be put on them -- Peltonen, Dvorak, etc.

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11-24-2008, 12:15 PM
  #103
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Sorry post 3-in-a-row, but I loved that he said this:

Quote:
Belak says he's "very happy" and hopes he gets to play out the rest of his contract here in FLA.

He also wanted to relay how much he was touched by the outpouring of support from the fans here. "I can't believe there was so much support from them,'' he said. When I told him the Panthers don't have a whole bunch of fans, but the ones they do have are extremely loyal, he added "I'm starting to realize that.''
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...ment-140278020

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11-24-2008, 12:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Really GP? You're not that naive are you?

90% of this team would get picked up off waivers and you're foolish to think otherwise. The only guys who WOULDN'T get picked up on waivers are the ones who probably should be put on them -- Peltonen, Dvorak, etc.
Good post...GP, you serious? I mean, you've come up with some crazy stuff before, but that one was WAY out there.

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11-24-2008, 12:18 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Really GP? You're not that naive are you?

90% of this team would get picked up off waivers and you're foolish to think otherwise. The only guys who WOULDN'T get picked up on waivers are the ones who probably should be put on them -- Peltonen, Dvorak, etc.
It's more a money thing and cap space issue than the talent issue. Teams are more interested in swapping contracts than just assuming one without getting rid of money and cap space in return. And that's not naive but economics in the Salary Cap Era.

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11-24-2008, 12:19 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Good post...GP, you serious? I mean, you've come up with some crazy stuff before, but that one was WAY out there.
See my response to Rattrick.

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11-24-2008, 12:24 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
It's more a money thing and cap space issue than the talent issue. Teams are more interested in swapping contracts than just assuming one without getting rid of money and cap space in return. And that's not naive but economics in the Salary Cap Era.
You're just digging a deeper hole.

So you're telling me Weiss's contract at 3.1 isn't a hell of a lot better than Hartnell at 4.2 or Lupul at 4.25 or Malone at 4.5 or Vrbata at 3?

The only one of the long term deals that MIGHT end up being bad is Olesz, but there is still lots of time for that to turn. You HAVE to take a chance on your young talent in the cap world. I guess Detroit looked stupid to you when they signed Zetterberg at 2.65 back in the day? What a steal that is now and that's what these contracts will look like some day.

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11-24-2008, 12:25 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Sorry post 3-in-a-row, but I loved that he said this:



http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...ment-140278020
Kudos to GR for sticking up for us die hard Panther fans!

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11-24-2008, 12:35 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
You're just digging a deeper hole.

So you're telling me Weiss's contract at 3.1 isn't a hell of a lot better than Hartnell at 4.2 or Lupul at 4.25 or Malone at 4.5 or Vrbata at 3?

The only one of the long term deals that MIGHT end up being bad is Olesz, but there is still lots of time for that to turn. You HAVE to take a chance on your young talent in the cap world. I guess Detroit looked stupid to you when they signed Zetterberg at 2.65 back in the day? What a steal that is now and that's what these contracts will look like some day.
For what Weiss is producing now and if he continues that production throughout the contract, yes, that is a lousy contract. JM is gambling on future improvement, which might happen but hasn't happened so far. A team would likely take a chance on Weiss for a year or two at that salary but not six. If you want to get rid of or trade Weiss, expect a like player, underachieving and on a long term contract, in return. In essense, the GMs would be exchanging gambles in hopes that a change of scenery would spark both players.

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11-24-2008, 12:38 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
For what Weiss is producing now and if he continues that production throughout the contract, yes, that is a lousy contract. JM is gambling on future improvement, which might happen but hasn't happened so far. A team would likely take a chance on Weiss for a year or two at that salary but not six. If you want to get rid of or trade Weiss, expect a like player, underachieving and on a long term contract, in return. In essense, the GMs would be exchanging gambles in hopes that a change of scenery would spark both players.
Really? Cause if he were not injured, he'd be on pace for a 50 point season. Of course, I hope you know points aren't everything in hockey and when not on the scoresheet, Weiss does a lot for this team. An argument could be made for him being the MVP of the team based on how they play with and without him.

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11-24-2008, 12:42 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Really? Cause if he were not injured, he'd be on pace for a 50 point season. Of course, I hope you know points aren't everything in hockey and when not on the scoresheet, Weiss does a lot for this team. An argument could be made for him being the MVP of the team based on how they play with and without him.
Oh, Weiss is one of the best players on the Panthers, I agree. I hope you realise that that isn't saying much. Weiss, on a very good team, is a third line center and $3mil+ is a lot of money for a third liner.

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11-24-2008, 12:44 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Oh, Weiss is one of the best players on the Panthers, I agree. I hope you realise that that isn't saying much. Weiss, on a very good team, is a third line center and $3mil+ is a lot of money for a third liner.
Yes, Weiss on a very good team might be a third line center, but there are probably 25 teams in the NHL where he'd be a #2 center and 3.1 million for a #2 center is a great deal.

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11-24-2008, 01:06 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Oh, Weiss is one of the best players on the Panthers, I agree. I hope you realise that that isn't saying much. Weiss, on a very good team, is a third line center and $3mil+ is a lot of money for a third liner.
Absolutely agree - I've said it over and over again, Weiss is a good 3rd line center and a decent/mediocre 2nd line center. He'll never be a major scoring threat unless you put good scorer around him, but he's solid defensively and has good hockey smarts. I also think, like Pride, that he's overpaid.

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11-24-2008, 01:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Yes, Weiss on a very good team might be a third line center, but there are probably 25 teams in the NHL where he'd be a #2 center and 3.1 million for a #2 center is a great deal.
This involved much more work than it deserved, but I just went through the entire NHL depth charts on CBS Sportline and to show how I think you exaggerate Weiss's worth, of the 30 NHL teams and assuming everyone healthy, I think Weiss would be at least the second line center on just 10 of them, Florida, St.Louis, Columbus, Vancouver, Phoenix, Anaheim, Calgary, Islanders, Toronto and Atlanta. On the other end of the equation, I think Weiss would be the fourth line center in Philadelphia.

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11-24-2008, 01:46 PM
  #115
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Weiss is a 3rd line center...on most teams? Where? Detroit and Pittsburgh?

Weiss is exactly where he should be, there's nothing wrong with needing a supporting cast, Crosby sin't producing like he did last year with the different support cast, so that doesn't make sense. Imo, the Express line is a solid 2nd line and Bouw should be moved for a top center to center Stillman and Frolik. At least to gie it a go for a bit.

Heck, Spezza, Heatley, and Alfredsson don't produce the same without each other. (Maybe I'm just missing the point, but I don't think he's a "3rd line center" at all, he's just not a first)

*What's this thread about...?

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11-24-2008, 02:03 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
This involved much more work than it deserved, but I just went through the entire NHL depth charts on CBS Sportline and to show how I think you exaggerate Weiss's worth, of the 30 NHL teams and assuming everyone healthy, I think Weiss would be at least the second line center on just 10 of them, Florida, St.Louis, Columbus, Vancouver, Phoenix, Anaheim, Calgary, Islanders, Toronto and Atlanta. On the other end of the equation, I think Weiss would be the fourth line center in Philadelphia.
I'm not going to go through all the NHL teams, but just to prove that you're wrong, I'll list Minnesota, Nashville and Buffalo as teams where Weiss would be the #2 center.

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11-24-2008, 03:18 PM
  #117
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We have no way of really knowing how Weiss would be on other teams. Personally I would agree with GP's assesment.

He truly is a 2 center at best. I would hope that people agree he's fragile, not willing to work the corners, and he is not a number one center, like we are about to display him as tonight. Even though we have no one else better than him, doesnt make him number one.

He was a 4th overall draft pick that was overrated, rushed into the NHL, and has not lived up to his promise.
Who else does this sound like?
Anyone remember Rob Niedermeyer?

Same thing, number one pick, high expectations, never really materialized. Weiss was given a 6 year deal, which looks like a steal compared to other centers, but the bottom line with him is that he has not lived up to his promise and JM has been telling everyone that he's part of the future and that we should be counting on him for offense.

Well for me, I am not impressed, and am tired of waiting for him to prove his value.

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11-24-2008, 03:26 PM
  #118
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Another player in the Weiss/Need-a-pair mold is David Legwand, a high draft pick who fell far short of offensive expectations but still plays good defensively. On a team like NSH I think it would be a wash as to who the #2 center would be, same with the BJ's as they already have Brassard and Umberger. If Hecht was healthy I'd put Hecht and Roy before Weiss for Buffalo. All this projection of what line a guy would play on is really speculative, so I don't read much into the on 25 teams or at least 10 teams talk.

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11-24-2008, 03:26 PM
  #119
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Excerpt from GR. Blog: He also wanted to relay how much he was touched by the outpouring of support from the fans here. "I can't believe there was so much support from them,'' he said. When I told him the Panthers don't have a whole bunch of fans, but the ones they do have are extremely loyal, he added "I'm starting to realize that.''

Perfectly said. I live in frickin Calgary and have stayed loyal since the beginning. I guess if I enrolled in the Navy in another life... I would be the type that would go down with the ship,lol.

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11-24-2008, 03:44 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by CanadianPantherFan View Post
I guess if I enrolled in the Navy in another life... I would be the type that would go down with the ship,lol.
Good analogy. I feel the same way. I don't care if we never win another game, I will still cheer for this team because that's what being a fan is all about. Not this Florida fair weathered/bandwagon fan that we all know and hate, but a TRUE fan.

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11-24-2008, 05:42 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
I'm not going to go through all the NHL teams, but just to prove that you're wrong, I'll list Minnesota, Nashville and Buffalo as teams where Weiss would be the #2 center.
I'll give you Minnesota. The CBS Sportsline listed the Wild last and I accidently skipped them. I don't give you Nashville and Buffalo, which would mean Weiss is a better scoring line center (the definition of a top two line center) than Legwand and Hecht, which he isn't statwise. This isn't about what Weiss possibly may accomplish but has already accomplished.

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11-24-2008, 05:44 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
Another player in the Weiss/Need-a-pair mold is David Legwand, a high draft pick who fell far short of offensive expectations but still plays good defensively. On a team like NSH I think it would be a wash as to who the #2 center would be, same with the BJ's as they already have Brassard and Umberger. If Hecht was healthy I'd put Hecht and Roy before Weiss for Buffalo. All this projection of what line a guy would play on is really speculative, so I don't read much into the on 25 teams or at least 10 teams talk.
Legwand, while not living up to expectations, has been more offensively productive than Weiss.

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11-24-2008, 06:13 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Legwand, while not living up to expectations, has been more offensively productive than Weiss.
Like I said, it's close. They both are solid defensively, and you're right Legs has been better throughout the past. I was just giving Weiss a shot at that one because it's close. I think I've expressed my feelings about Stevie Weiss over the years, and if you weren't sure, I'm not his biggest fan.

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11-25-2008, 11:48 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I'll agree he wasn't doing what he's on the team to do, but as he said, if someone doesn't want to go, he can't force them to. He's also barely being played.

I just hope he clears waivers and comes back severely pissed off.
but... how is that going to help? i initially liked the idea of having him here but it would seem he's not really able to change the tone of games with physical play, only fights and the result has been that, well, he's not able to alter the tone of games. i don't see how him being pissed off is going to help. we've got a nuclear option but it isn't really benefiting us as much as we thought.

belak's ineffectiveness is part of a bigger theme, imo, and thought i'd post a link to a discussion of the instigator rule i read on the times' blog this morning (http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...e-must-stay/); interesting read for those of us who don't remember the 70s that well (for one reason or the other ). it's persuasive.

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12-04-2008, 11:04 PM
  #125
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No doubt now that this move by Martin did indeed spark the team in one way or the other, no matter how you slice it (the waive of Belak or the actually trade).

Since the waive of Belak = 5-0-2 record in six games, 10 of 12 points.

Since the trade of Belak = 3-0-1 record in four games, 7 of 8 points.

-ghoste

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