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Old
11-24-2008, 12:12 PM
  #51
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Eklund is a fool when it comes to anything hockey-related, but he's great at marketing himself.

With the amount of Edm/NYR proposals around here it should be clear that the two organizations don't make good trading partners. They really have no need for Dubinsky as they have Horcoff, Gagner and Cogliano. The don't have a pressing need for a "pass-first" sort of RW like Zherdev, as they already have Hemsky. They need a sniper for Hemsky, we need a sniper for Gomez.

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11-25-2008, 09:59 AM
  #52
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Well, I started a new thread on what I think the Rangers will do at the deadline, but it got closed - guess this is the next best place for it. Thoughts?

I think the Rangers team that (hopefully) goes to the playoffs will be about 90% the same as the current roster. Unlike in past years, however, I think that it's a cohesive, well-designed group that has the potential to make a long run in the playoffs. And therefore, for the first time since the lockout, I think Sather will make a splash at the trading deadline (rather than the offseason) in an effort to push it over the top. I'm curious to see if folks agree - and, if so, what moves the team will make?

Personally, the more I consider it, the more I believe that Glen may finally make a move for Kovalchuk. There's no way he's staying in Atlanta when his contract expires (summer '10) and he would be a perfect fit for our team. I know, I know, EVERYONE dreams of acquiring Ilya, but he'll be expensive and not that many teams will want to take the risk of getting burned like the Penguins did with Hossa last year. Furthermore, we have the players to make it work under the cap - and the space coming free (Naslund) to give him a raise when his current contract expires (funny how Markus' contract expires the same year that Ilya's does...). I also think that we have enough assets that Atlanta will want and that Atlanta will be motivated to move him this year rather than wait until his contract year (given that what happened with Hossa will probably drive down the price of impending big name FAs at the trade deadline in their walk years... AND out of desire to *ahem* improve their odds in the draft lottery of '09).

Here's my proposal:

Atlanta gets
-Rozsival (primarily to make the $$$ work, but hopefully he moves forward from yesterday's improved performance to be a desirable player once again)
-Korpikoski (yeah, I know, I like him too, but ya gotta give to get)
-Dawes (makes the money work almost exactly and, although he's been disappointing for the first few games he's played this year - on a very short leash, it should be noted - he's shown enough in the past that he has the potential to develop into a 30 goal scorer)
-Sanguinetti (you need to include a big-time prospect)
-1st rounder 2009

Rangers get
-Kovalchuk

The team then trades Prucha (not nearly as big a cap hit by the trading deadline) for either an NHL ready 6th Dman or a mid-level defensive prospect in the AHL (allowing Potter/Sauer to be promoted). If you need another Dman, you deal a 3rd/4th to get one (if I remember correctly, Backman cost a 4th last year, right?) or you deal Betts and promote Moore (unlikely given Renney's love of Betts, but by the same token, we have Rissmiller - plus Blair's a FA next year and I don't think we'll be making the best offer for him given our cap constraints). The team then looks like this:

Kovalchuk-Gomez-Drury
Naslund-Dubinsky-Zherdev
Voros-Anisimov-Callahan
Sjostrom-Betts-Fritsche
Extras: Orr, Rissmiller (who can replace either Anisimov, if he's not ready, or Betts, if he gets dealt)

Redden-Girardi
Mara-Kalinin
Staal-Sauer
Extas: Unidentified 7th Dman to be named later

In my opinion this works out almost perfectly for us (the only way it could be better would be if we could get them to a) take the package minus Sangs/the pick or b) if Ilya magically became a RW instead of a LW so that Drury doesn't have to play out of position. ) - AND I think that's relatively fair value for a team that's targetting the lottery and that knows the player ain't coming back.

Thoughts on the above scenario? Other visions of what will go down at the deadline and what the team will look like for the PO run?

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11-25-2008, 10:03 AM
  #53
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We will never get Kovy, let it go already. When he becomes a UFA, we won't have enough to sign him so theres no point in throwing out all of our depth guys along with prospects to acquire him for a year. The new NHL is built on depth and building up your prospects, especially first round picks. Why would we trade Korpedo and Sanguinetti for Kovy and his (going to be) around 8-9 mil ass. Look for Slats to make a trade for someone more Zherdev type. Low key, around 3.5-4.5 mil, has offensive upside and creativity.

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11-25-2008, 10:22 AM
  #54
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I think the Rangers have what it takes to get a good winger in for Gomez

Rozsival would be coveted.........Ranger fans boo him but he has had multiple good yrs

Dawes also would be coveted, he is young and has potential

from their Prucha and Fritsche are the next to move

I am totally coold with those 4 players for a top winger and back end D man................then Rissmiller can be the main back up and their is still good Hartford callups

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11-25-2008, 10:23 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
We will never get Kovy, let it go already. When he becomes a UFA, we won't have enough to sign him so theres no point in throwing out all of our depth guys along with prospects to acquire him for a year. The new NHL is built on depth and building up your prospects, especially first round picks. Why would we trade Korpedo and Sanguinetti for Kovy and his (going to be) around 8-9 mil ass. Look for Slats to make a trade for someone more Zherdev type. Low key, around 3.5-4.5 mil, has offensive upside and creativity.
First of all, although I would always have liked Kovy, I haven't been one of those posting to go get him for years. This is the first time I'm advocating it, because I think it's the first time it makes sense.

As to the money question, I think you're actually dead wrong, because a) we'd have to clear $6.4MM just to bring him over in the first place (which my proposal does) meaning you've already got that much towards his next contract, b) Naslund's contract expires at exactly the same time that Kovy's does (funny how that works...) and c) recent history has shown that a "hometown discount" does exist in the NHL - players have been willing to take less than open market value to stay in a place they like or to win a cup. We would be able to offer Kovy both.

And, even if we couldn't resign him... so what? I'd give up those assets to have him with the current core for two playoff runs.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way - if you can point out any other Zherdevs in the market, I'll be the first to sign up. Frankly, I don't think there are any, which is why I was so dang happy to get him when we did.

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11-25-2008, 12:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
First of all, although I would always have liked Kovy, I haven't been one of those posting to go get him for years. This is the first time I'm advocating it, because I think it's the first time it makes sense.

As to the money question, I think you're actually dead wrong, because a) we'd have to clear $6.4MM just to bring him over in the first place (which my proposal does) meaning you've already got that much towards his next contract, b) Naslund's contract expires at exactly the same time that Kovy's does (funny how that works...) and c) recent history has shown that a "hometown discount" does exist in the NHL - players have been willing to take less than open market value to stay in a place they like or to win a cup. We would be able to offer Kovy both.

And, even if we couldn't resign him... so what? I'd give up those assets to have him with the current core for two playoff runs.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way - if you can point out any other Zherdevs in the market, I'll be the first to sign up. Frankly, I don't think there are any, which is why I was so dang happy to get him when we did.
1) Ok, so go aquire Kovy. If you think he will take anything below 7 mil you're sadly mistaken. At the end of the day, its still a business.

2) Cap space will free up, but you don't think we need to sign our own players? Let me just show you who is due for new contracts this year AND next year

Staal,Dubi, Zherdev,Korpedo(since we are trading him, I'll exclude him), Callahan, we lose 2 defenseman (which need to be replaced obviously and since you've just traded Rozy and Sanguinetti, the only person I can see coming up is Potter.) Oh, and Valiquette needs to be resigned.

How do you manage all of that AND get Kovy?... I also havent mentioned Sjostrom and Fritsche in the above signings.

Edit: The cap is ALSO going down in the following years.


Last edited by levski87: 11-25-2008 at 12:59 PM. Reason: I forgot to mention, the cap is also going down.
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11-25-2008, 01:05 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
1) Ok, so go aquire Kovy. If you think he will take anything below 7 mil you're sadly mistaken. At the end of the day, its still a business.

2) Cap space will free up, but you don't think we need to sign our own players? Let me just show you who is due for new contracts this year AND next year

Dubi, Zherdev,Korpedo(since we are trading him, I'll exclude him), Callahan, we lose 2 defenseman (which need to be replaced obviously and since you've just traded Rozy and Sanguinetti, the only person I can see coming up is Potter.) Oh, and Valiquette needs to be resigned.

How do you manage all of that AND get Kovy?...
The point you're missing though is that I recognized the business aspect. My proposed package clears $6.575MM by itself ($5MM for Rozsie, $987K for Korpi and $588K for Dawes). You don't think we can devote a $500K-$1MM out of the $4MM cleared when Naslund leaves to re-up Kovy?

Furthermore, Dubi, Zherdev and Callahan all need to be signed this year - when Kovalchuk would still have another year left on his existing contract. So re-upping them is not relevant to whether or not you re-sign Kovy.

Lastly, I would be willing to do that deal to then see him walk in the summer of 2010 (although I would fight to keep him) just to have him with the current core for two runs at the cup.

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11-25-2008, 01:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
The point you're missing though is that I recognized the business aspect. My proposed package clears $6.575MM by itself ($5MM for Rozsie, $987K for Korpi and $588K for Dawes). You don't think we can devote a $500K-$1MM out of the $4MM cleared when Naslund leaves to re-up Kovy?

Furthermore, Dubi, Zherdev and Callahan all need to be signed this year - when Kovalchuk would still have another year left on his existing contract. So re-upping them is not relevant to whether or not you re-sign Kovy.

Lastly, I would be willing to do that deal to then see him walk in the summer of 2010 (although I would fight to keep him) just to have him with the current core for two runs at the cup.
Honestly, no I don't see how we can devote any type of money to resigning Kovy. IF you manage to resign Kovy, then what about Staal? Where do you get the money then?

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11-25-2008, 01:38 PM
  #59
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Honestly, no I don't see how we can devote any type of money to resigning Kovy. IF you manage to resign Kovy, then what about Staal? Where do you get the money then?
Once again, under my proposal you get Kovalchuk by trading Rozsival, Korpikoski and Dawes off the current roster. This clears up nearly $6.6MM that is going to be there anyway when it comes time to offer a contract to Staal. From there it's a matter of another $500K - $1MM, maybe $1.5MM to lock up Kovalchuk long-term.

Look at it the other way around: if you DON'T trade those three, then how do you sign Staal to the enormous contract you're anticipating that he'll receive in 2010? You've still got Rozsival's $5MM on the books. You've also got Korpikoski coming up for HIS new contract and if he's been at all successful this year and next (and we certainly better hope he will be), you need to devote $2MM to him... Hmmm... that's looking an awful lot like $7MM BEFORE you get to Staal's contract (and note that this assumes that Dawes goes for nothing) - same as if you were to trade those two for Kovalchuk.

And, as I said, I'd do that deal for the cup run the next two years EVEN IF we were to lose Kovy in the summer of '10.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 11-25-2008 at 01:43 PM.
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11-25-2008, 01:59 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Once again, under my proposal you get Kovalchuk by trading Rozsival, Korpikoski and Dawes off the current roster. This clears up nearly $6.6MM that is going to be there anyway when it comes time to offer a contract to Staal. From there it's a matter of another $500K - $1MM, maybe $1.5MM to lock up Kovalchuk long-term.

Look at it the other way around: if you DON'T trade those three, then how do you sign Staal to the enormous contract you're anticipating that he'll receive in 2010? You've still got Rozsival's $5MM on the books. You've also got Korpikoski coming up for HIS new contract and if he's been at all successful this year and next (and we certainly better hope he will be), you need to devote $2MM to him... Hmmm... that's looking an awful lot like $7MM BEFORE you get to Staal's contract (and note that this assumes that Dawes goes for nothing) - same as if you were to trade those two for Kovalchuk.

And, as I said, I'd do that deal for the cup run the next two years EVEN IF we were to lose Kovy in the summer of '10.
Like I said in the thread that got closed, even though it's a fair deal, you're exchanging a ton of depth for just one forward. Korpikoski and Dawes have enough skill to put up 50 points in a season. Maybe not this season, but next season or the year after that. Then you're also letting go of a first round pick in a deep draft.

Kovalchuk is great and all, but we've seen that he can be thrown off his game quite easily. Also, if we sign him we're going to have 3 forwards making upwards of 21 million, which is just insane. Right now I think the Rangers should stick with what they have.

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11-25-2008, 02:07 PM
  #61
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Like I said in the thread that got closed, even though it's a fair deal, you're exchanging a ton of depth for just one forward. Korpikoski and Dawes have enough skill to put up 50 points in a season. Maybe not this season, but next season or the year after that. Then you're also letting go of a first round pick in a deep draft.

Kovalchuk is great and all, but we've seen that he can be thrown off his game quite easily. Also, if we sign him we're going to have 3 forwards making upwards of 21 million, which is just insane. Right now I think the Rangers should stick with what they have.
For 2 years (Drury's contract comes off the books thereafter). IF you re-sign him. And don't forget, if you leave the team as-is, you've got $19MM in 2 forwards plus a defenseman (Rozsie).

Anyway, what's gotten lost in the shuffle here is that the trade I've proposed is what I see going down at the deadline. I think that this squad is much better prepared for a long run in the spring than any other club we've had. Given that, I think that Slats will finally make a trade deadline splash. If I'm wrong about the specific move, I'm curious to hear other thoughts. Or do you guys think we'll stick with the team exactly as-is and let the dice fall where they may come PO time?

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11-25-2008, 02:09 PM
  #62
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For 2 years (Drury's contract comes off the books thereafter).
Drury is under contract for more 3 seasons (not including this season, so 4 more total). 2008-2009, 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012.

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11-25-2008, 02:11 PM
  #63
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Drury is under contract for more 3 seasons (not including this season, so 4 more total). 2008-2009, 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012.
Right - we were talking about if we trade for Kovalchuk and then re-up him in summer 2010.

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11-25-2008, 02:19 PM
  #64
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wut about getting rid of Rosi and see how sanguinetti can do for a couple of games, if not we can throw correy potter in there

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11-25-2008, 02:50 PM
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I think if i was going for a scoring Winger i would prefer Alexander Semin to Ilya Kovalchuk simple because i dont think that Semin would cost as much to re-sign. I think with Kovalchuk you are looking for him to get $9m per even with a discount, while i think with Semin you are looking at around $7m.

Both contracts are up at the same time. 2010/11

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11-25-2008, 02:56 PM
  #66
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Anyone think a NY NY deal is possible

Bill Guerin 4.5m Andy Sutton 3

for

Rozisval-5, Prucha 1.6, Fritsche 875?

That would give the Rangers something like this


Drury, Gomez, Guerin
Naslund, Dubinsky, Zherdev
Voros, Korpikoski,Callahan
Sjostrom, Betts, Orr
Dawes, Rissmiller

Guerin is a FA next yr, Sutton has 1 more yr...........Isles have TONS of cap space so they can take Rozi on.........Prucha and Fritsche would get to play

thoughts?

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11-25-2008, 04:33 PM
  #67
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I think if i was going for a scoring Winger i would prefer Alexander Semin to Ilya Kovalchuk simple because i dont think that Semin would cost as much to re-sign. I think with Kovalchuk you are looking for him to get $9m per even with a discount, while i think with Semin you are looking at around $7m.

Both contracts are up at the same time. 2010/11
Hey, I wouldn't complain about Semin - but why would the Caps trade him? They're first in their division and they have an exciting team with good young players (including Semin) who seem to enjoy playing with each other.

Kovalchuk makes sense as a target because Atlanta HAS to trade him or lose him as a FA in 18 months.

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11-25-2008, 04:55 PM
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If only we would have picked Parise or Perry instead of Jessiman we wouldn't be having this thread. I'm not sure trading Rozsival is the answer. Kalinen's contract is only this year so if it doesn't work out and we trade Rozy, we're down to four defenseman.

Theres no way I want to trade Gomez. I think this guy is getting better as his career goes along. He does everything. Drury is clutch as well. He's leading our team in goals and like Gomez, he's so dependable in both zones.

There's a kid in our system playing in the Chzech Republic who I would like to know more about. He's having a pretty decent year in the Chzech leagues. He's a minus one but a point a game player. So as you see. I'm thinking the answer must lie from within. His name is David Kveton.

I would like to try Prucha on that left side on the first line. Dubinsky in the middle and Zherdev on the right. Z and Pruch seemed to get a long pretty well in Europe and maybe Zherdev can help Prucha with his confidence. I can see it not happening. But I would try Prucha. He arrived at camp in the best condition except for mentally and Renny is not doing him any favors. IDC. If guys like Gionta and Brierre can score in this league, I have no doubt Prucha can.

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11-25-2008, 05:00 PM
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I forgot to also mention Sjostrom. I think he might be able to score on the rw with Gomez and Drury. Sjostrom's got wheels too. I would probably then just move Fritche down to the fourth line.

Naslund Dubinsky Zherdev
Drury Gomez Sjostrom
Callahan Korpokoski Prucha
Fritche Betts Orr

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11-25-2008, 05:06 PM
  #70
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Hey, I wouldn't complain about Semin - but why would the Caps trade him? They're first in their division and they have an exciting team with good young players (including Semin) who seem to enjoy playing with each other.

Kovalchuk makes sense as a target because Atlanta HAS to trade him or lose him as a FA in 18 months.
Yeah i agree with you.

one thing is for sure we need someone to put the puck in the net

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11-25-2008, 05:08 PM
  #71
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someone posted a trade that kinda makes sense

JD and Sather hooking up

Basically Tkathuk and Polak for Rozi, Dawes ,Prucha

Tkathuck is a FA at seasons end but he would help in the stretch drive
Polak is a good young Dman

StL gets Rozi who is locked up several yrs(yea yea he is not playing great but his track record is strong), Dawes is a good young player and makes sense for Polak and JD just might give Prucha a chance

That would give the Rangers some pretty good depth

Tkachuk, Gomez, Drury
Naslund, Dubinsky, Zherdev
Voros, Korpikoski, Callahan
Sjostrom, Betts, Orr
Rissmiller, Fritsche

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11-25-2008, 05:35 PM
  #72
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Our Expectations and Future !

Our team has had a great start thus far but now they have stumbled . Many on here are calling for some major additions to be made and some subtractions to be done to get them . IMO...at this stage we have a solid nucleus or core to move forward with and into the future . We cannot trade away that future for a short term game plan or once again we as die hard fans will go thru another decade of poor teams .

We have a half decent middle of the road type of team at this point . In all actually we have probably overachieved mostly because of King Henrik's goal tending . It's of my opinion that if we had a quarterback on the PP then I think we would be a top team in the East with an improved PP but still a weak sister versus the West as are most Eastern teams at this point !

I could handle being a top team in the East for the next 2 years if I knew it was just a matter of time for us to be a top team in both Conferences because we kept our youth intact and just did some tweaking along the way .As a fan I do not want to see the team's future mortgaged so heavily only to be good enough to be an Eastern conference contender for a year ! There is not enough in our organization to enable us to win a Cup yet no matter how many trades are made .

We have all watched Kovalchuk play and the attitude that he exhibits is far from leadership like...and far and away from what is needed to carry a team towards the next level . He...or others like him would be a bad move with drastic long term consequences .

There is no one magic bullet to fix what ails us . It will take a couple of more years of addition and subtaction as well as a little luck in hoping that 1 or 2 guys land in our lap unexpectedly . Trading Dubinsky , Korpokoski , Callahan , Staal , Girardi ,Sangunetti , Potter , Del Zotto and yes even Dawes would be a step backwards IMO !

I would not be mad at the Rangers if they traded Roszival or Zherdev for a PP quarterback . Zherdev is such a Kovalev clone it just makes me shiver . His stock is high...flip him fast before he decided to take a few games or years off . We won't win championships with a guy like him even though he is pretty to watch . If he does outgrow his Kovalev like efforts and plays nite in and nite out like he did last night then I will be all for him...but I can't see that happening anytime soon .

So...be patient folks and let things come together . Rome was not built in a day nor will the Rangers be . In all fairness it might be better for us if we got worse before we got better rather then being a middle of the road type of team as we are now !

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11-25-2008, 08:20 PM
  #73
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I've said this many times.

THE ONLY WAY to get a bonifide top 6 winger, is to trade GOMEZ. Not Rozy, not redden. GOMEZ.

Even if you trade one of Redden or Rozy, you need to get another defensemen to replace them. Nobody in HFD is ready yet. Getting a good dman costs money. Getting a winger costs money. WE don't have much cap space. #'s don't add up well.

and our strength in the minors is in center. We have alot of center prospects. It makes sense to trade a center than. We arent going to trade Dubi. Betts has very limited value. Drury has an NMC. Gomez has a NTC for 3 teams, is overpaid, has pretty good value, and frankly is completely overrated by our fanbase.

you trade him and a first round pick (that contract is a killer) and you can get a good first line winger. and rid ourselves of a horrendous contract.

Totally agree. You gotta give something good to get something good. Gomez +Dawes+ 3rd rnd = top 6 forward + 5th-6th defenceman

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11-25-2008, 09:39 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy30 View Post
Totally agree. You gotta give something good to get something good. Gomez +Dawes+ 3rd rnd = top 6 forward + 5th-6th defenceman
Uh... you mean like Pittsburgh traded a top six forward to get Hossa? Or Phoenix to get Jokinen? Or San Jose to get Thornton?

I know that fans of teams about to lose a top player never want to admit this, but you (almost) never get a bona fide top line player in exchange for a bona fide top line player - if for no other reason than it defeats the purpose of acquiring the new guy in the first place. Heck, it also defeats the purpose for the team trading the guy away since a) if you're trading a top line talent, you're probably looking to rebuild (& therefore are looking for multiple talented young guys) and b) if you were only one top line player away from a long playoff run, you wouldn't want to trade the guy you already have.

What you do get is a bunch of assets that might some day add up to more than the guy you're trading away. Especially when everyone in the league knows that the guy you're trading is months away from leaving for nothing.

I think the offer I suggested for Kovalchuk is both fair and realistic (and actually might be more than the Rangers would have to give). Now, it might not be the best that the Thrash could get. And it might not be something that the Rangers would want to do. But it's silly to say that you'd have to send Gomez the other way to get him - or that the Rangers would want to do so.

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11-25-2008, 10:09 PM
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come on guys at the deadline their will be good veterans available for some prospects and picks

How about a package for Kozlov out of Atlanta?

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