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Is the NHL getting soft?

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03-02-2004, 11:11 AM
  #1
Mizral
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Is the NHL getting soft?

I was reading the paper this morning, and all in it they had Canuck players talking about Steve Moore. Some interesting reactions.

Naslund basically said that Moore was just finishing his check, he thought he did catch him with an elbow or something, but he didn't hold any malice towards him. And that 2 points were more important than getting 'revenge'.

Matt Cooke and Jarkko Ruutu said something to the effect of that it's hard to 'pull up' late, but you don't go out there to injure guys (hillarious, coming from Ruutu especially), but that 2 points mean more.

--------

Then May basically said that while they won't be headhunting, Moore will eat it somewhere along the line, and Keane said that if he hit a star player, he'd expect to have to drop 'em with Worrell or something (that'd be quick.

Pretty different reactions from two older guys compared to three 'newer' players.

Let's just imagine for a second that the Canucks to a man were still seething and wanting revenge. Wouldn't that make for a great game?

Hell, I remember when Suter nailed Bure, the Canucks came out against Suter like a house on fire the next time they matched up. I remember in the 80's if some guy cheap shot a player, there was pandemonium, and getting revenge the next game wasn't necessarily encouraged, but the NHL wasn't discouraging it either, and the next game there'd be a dozen fights and the fans would be cheering/booing their ***** off all night.

Now I hope people don't think I'm saying the Canucks should go out for revenge, I'm not saying this because I think Moore ought to 'eat it'. But would it be so bad if the NHL relaxed it's policies a bit and allowed teams to 'settle' these sorts of disputes without VP of the NHL breathing down their necks? I mean, Colin Campbell called Brad May after the Moore-hit game because May said that they will take revenge. You think that would fly in the 80's? Can you imagine the NHL offices trying to tell Dave Semenko he couldn't pound some little putz into the ground because he cross-checked Gretzky?

Personally, I think the NHL, while they shouldn't encourage things to get out of hand, should encourage players to settle these things amongst themselves.

Oh, and get rid of the instigator.

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03-02-2004, 11:33 AM
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Mats_Hallin
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Hip checking is illegal so of course NHL is being sissyfied constantly.

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03-02-2004, 11:36 AM
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If Foote or Forsberg delivered that check, there would of been a price on their head, why waste energy taking out a 4th liner like Moore?

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03-02-2004, 11:44 AM
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If things are getting soft, I think the players are behind it a bit, too. Why didn't anyone do anything during the game Naslund got whacked? I'm not talking about anything cheap either. Just a big, clean hit or two to send a message. I don't see the point of waiting until afterwards to start talking about it.

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03-02-2004, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleHossa
If Foote or Forsberg delivered that check, there would of been a price on their head, why waste energy taking out a 4th liner like Moore?
Set the tone and get revenge!
Some "fans" like you should go and try to change another sport.

Canucks could do threee things:

Go after Moore: Moore and his likes would see that throwing borderline hits at a star players isn't worth the retribution.

Ignore it: It would just send the OK for everybody to check Naslund silly without facing retribution. And remember, checking legal, at least for now..

Go after Forsberg/Sakic: things would just escalate and both teams would end up hurting even more.

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03-02-2004, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
If things are getting soft, I think the players are behind it a bit, too. Why didn't anyone do anything during the game Naslund got whacked? I'm not talking about anything cheap either. Just a big, clean hit or two to send a message. I don't see the point of waiting until afterwards to start talking about it.
Good point. Where was big bad Bert when his buddy got checked?

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03-02-2004, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
If things are getting soft, I think the players are behind it a bit, too. Why didn't anyone do anything during the game Naslund got whacked? I'm not talking about anything cheap either. Just a big, clean hit or two to send a message. I don't see the point of waiting until afterwards to start talking about it.
May went after Moore right away and got slapped with an extra penalty. It was right at the end of the 2nd, and in the 3rd the Canucks came out and focused on winning, which was the right thing to do. They knew they would get their chance later.

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03-02-2004, 11:57 AM
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ceber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaloFan
May went after Moore right away and got slapped with an extra penalty.
Ok, I didn't know that. So then why all the talk afterwards if someone already got at him?

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03-02-2004, 11:58 AM
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Because the Vancouver media are a bunch of slack-jawed idiots.

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03-02-2004, 12:02 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaloFan
May went after Moore right away and got slapped with an extra penalty. It was right at the end of the 2nd, and in the 3rd the Canucks came out and focused on winning, which was the right thing to do. They knew they would get their chance later.
So throwing a good hard check was to much to ask for?
Nucks won't get anywhere in the playoffs if Naslund is on the IR and they should've risked a couple of penalties to send a message. A talking big after the game doesn't count...

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03-02-2004, 01:46 PM
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Malefic74
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The NHL has been soft for pretty close to 15 years now. From all appearances it will not revert to being the tough, edgy game it should be at any point in my lifetime.

It's progressive. In the beginning, right through until the mid 70s players worked hard to protect themselves. Beliveau, Howe, Richard, Orr and all those guys could score a ton, but they knew how to fight too. They created space for themselves by earning respect throughout the league.

Then in the 80s it changed. Suddenly stars were not protecting themselves anymore, they were relying on a team policeman to do it for them. Gretz had Semenko, Yzerman had Probert, Savard had Manson etc...

And now players make absolutely no effort at all to protect themselves. They rely on referees and the league office to do it. The league has gotten so soft compared to its roots they might as well put padding on the boards.

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03-02-2004, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats_Hallin
So throwing a good hard check was to much to ask for?
Nucks won't get anywhere in the playoffs if Naslund is on the IR and they should've risked a couple of penalties to send a message. A talking big after the game doesn't count...
In a divisional game, the score that close, you don't go after guys and get extra penalties, not with Colorado's PP. That's why players are so pissed because your star can get decked but you can't make the other team answer for it without taking a penalty. Sure you can line up a hit, but hits don't always send a message. Looking for a big hit will put you out of position and give the other team a scoring chance.
Talking after the game was pure emotion. If you just see your friend get decked, you're gonna be pretty pissed about it when you talk about it afterwards. Personally, I would've accepted it if May dropped the gloves and went after Moore, but he hit Moore(probably to see if Moore would drop 'em too to prevent an instigator) and the officials got in there pretty quickly.

It's not so much about softness as it is respect IMO. Players just don't respect each other anymore other than their talents.

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Old
03-02-2004, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Because the Vancouver media are a bunch of slack-jawed idiots.
I can agree with that

I will give props to Keane. After he gave a very questionable hit on Hamhuis, that actually earned him a boarding major.....He did drop the gloves with Hartnell when he flew in. That shows some decency in what was a classless play. In other words, at least Mike backs up his talk.

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03-02-2004, 03:12 PM
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I laugh when I hear May talk all this smack. He's not a heavyweight. What is going to happen when he tries to make Moore "eat it" and big Worrell steps in? Hey Brad, guess who will be eating it?

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03-02-2004, 03:28 PM
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The NHL is softer than in the past 15-20 years. Goalies have bigger padding but whine more and players lay on the ice like they've been shot out of a cannon. I don't know if its the influx or European players or not but, think back to the days when a player got up off of the ice because he didn't want anyone to think that he was hurt. You could say its the opposite now.

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03-02-2004, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orv
I laugh when I hear May talk all this smack. He's not a heavyweight. What is going to happen when he tries to make Moore "eat it" and big Worrell steps in? Hey Brad, guess who will be eating it?
Brad May has always done well for himself despite his size. Besides, Worrell has been having a terrible season, and even when he's on his game, his punching power is non existant. Can Brad May beat Worrell? I don't know, but he certainly isn't afraid of big Worrell.

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03-02-2004, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats_Hallin
Good point. Where was big bad Bert when his buddy got checked?
He lined up two avs defensemen, slammed into them to take them out and passed the puck to his winger which resulted in a goal.

I'm pretty sure Bert knew the relavence of the game and that the win was more important right now -- Moore will be dealt with in due time.

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Old
03-02-2004, 03:36 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxtang
Brad May has always done well for himself despite his size. Besides, Worrell has been having a terrible season, and even when he's on his game, his punching power is non existant. Can Brad May beat Worrell? I don't know, but he certainly isn't afraid of big Worrell.
I agree Worrell ain't got the best KO punch but he broke Boulton's orbital bone.

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03-02-2004, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
He lined up two avs defensemen, slammed into them to take them out and passed the puck to his winger which resulted in a goal.

I'm pretty sure Bert knew the relavence of the game and that the win was more important right now -- Moore will be dealt with in due time.
Two defensemen? Wow he is such a badass as the Nucks homers says he is.

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03-02-2004, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
He lined up two avs defensemen, slammed into them to take them out...
That was probably the funniest hit I have ever seen. And they scored on it to boot!

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Old
03-02-2004, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxtang
Brad May has always done well for himself despite his size. Besides, Worrell has been having a terrible season, and even when he's on his game, his punching power is non existant. Can Brad May beat Worrell? I don't know, but he certainly isn't afraid of big Worrell.
Not to mention the fact that if Langdon can beat Worrell, I'm pretty confident that Brookbank can as well.

The Canucks, IMO, responded as they should have. May went after Moore right away, as much as he could. The refs jumped in early and saved Moore. If the Canucks continued a revenge-parade to the penalty box, they would have lost the game. Instead they win it and send the avs on a losing skid. Moore was one of the defenders that Bertuzzi bowled over on the winning goal. Instead of being 8 points back (with the avs having 2 games in hand at the time), the Canucks are now 1 point back.

The Canucks have and will continue to take every opportunity to take Moore out legally. Should the game turn into a blowout for either side, I suspect it could get a bit more ugly. But to essentially sacrifice the division in order to get hollow "revenge" would have been nothing short of stupid.

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03-02-2004, 03:54 PM
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Mizral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats_Hallin
Two defensemen? Wow he is such a badass as the Nucks homers says he is.
Actually he isn't exagerating on this one. It was like Human bowling on that play.

Again, I'm not talking about the Moore incident only. The fact that guys like Marchment and Ruutu are even able to survive in this league should lend to my theory that the NHL these days doesn't want as many rivalries built on blood. Would the big Avs/Wings rivalry exist if not for the big smackdown at the Joe with the huge fights and Vernon/Patty going at it? Maybe, but nothing like it was. Over the years, it's gotten tamer and tamer, as the players simply no longer need to police themselves, because the instigator penalty will do it for them. This leads to guys like Havlat (no offense Sens fans) taking swings at guys.

If Havlat took a two hander to Gretzky's chops, he'd wake up in a hospital bed the next morning. Now, he just gets a 2-day suspension, comes back, and the Flyers probobly won't do dick about it because they can't without possibly sacrificing 2 much-needed points by being on the PK half the night.

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03-02-2004, 03:58 PM
  #23
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Regarding talk about not wanting to give up a penalty in a close game: What kind of message might this send to your opponents? "If the game is close, go ahead and run our top guys. We won't do anything about it for fear of taking a retaliation penalty." Maybe, maybe not. Were the two points worth it? Will they be worth it the next time Naslund gets taken out for a week? Two weeks? It's not the current game I'd be worried about, it's future, more important games. Just a thought.

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Old
03-02-2004, 04:03 PM
  #24
Mats_Hallin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
Not to mention the fact that if Langdon can beat Worrell, I'm pretty confident that Brookbank can as well.

The Canucks, IMO, responded as they should have. May went after Moore right away, as much as he could. The refs jumped in early and saved Moore. If the Canucks continued a revenge-parade to the penalty box, they would have lost the game. Instead they win it and send the avs on a losing skid. Moore was one of the defenders that Bertuzzi bowled over on the winning goal. Instead of being 8 points back (with the avs having 2 games in hand at the time), the Canucks are now 1 point back.

The Canucks have and will continue to take every opportunity to take Moore out legally. Should the game turn into a blowout for either side, I suspect it could get a bit more ugly. But to essentially sacrifice the division in order to get hollow "revenge" would have been nothing short of stupid.
They didn't do ****. The only one with a bit of emotion in Brad May made one halfhearted attempt but it wasn't anything much.
Do you want Moore to injure another Canuck? I don't but why shouldn't he, it's not like the Canucks are going to do anything anyways.

"Vancouver tough guy Brad May has already received a call from NHL vice-president Colin Campbell for declaring a "bounty" on Moore the night of the hit. He says chances are the rematch will result in a tilt between the team's team's tough guys."
http://www.canoe.ca/Slam040302/nhl_colvan-cp.html

What good will a fight between Worrell and Brookbank, and May and Cummins do?
Entertaining yes, for a purpose, no..

No more rivalries. NHL is ruined..


Last edited by Mats_Hallin: 03-02-2004 at 04:09 PM.
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Old
03-02-2004, 04:10 PM
  #25
incawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats_Hallin
They didn't do ****. The only one with a bit of emotion in Brad May made one halfhearted attempt but it wasn't anything much.
Do you want Moore to injure another Canuck? I don't but why shouldn't he, it's not like the Canucks are going to do anything anyways.
Oh give me a break. They did what they could without being stupid. What exactly did you want them to do? This isn't 1970 anymore. Did you want bertuzzi to cross-check moore in the face and get suspended for half a dozen games? Giving up a division title in order to get shallow revenge is counter-productive. The avs get the last laugh if the canucks go out and take stupid penalty after stupid penalty in a crucial game. Heck, if I'm playing for the avs and the canucks do that, I sure as hell take every opportunity to take out a star player on their team.

If Brookbank goes after Moore, Moore turtles...Brookbank gets the instigator penalty and the avs get a powerplay. Woopty-doo, some revenge. I'd rather have the 2 points.

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