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11-23-2008, 04:18 PM
  #1
LyricalLyricist
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Drafting College Players

The habs have a very good sense of drafting, we've seen them in the last few years get players that are already the core of the team and they will be complimented by future picks and current prospects yet to make the cut. The thing that worries me(slightly) is drafting out of the NCAA. Obviously the tactic from drafting from collehe hockey is it gives the canadiens an extra few years to evalute a player, let him develop and sign the player as opposed to CHL where they have to be signed after 2 years. We see it right now going on with fischer(who probably won't be signed at the end of this year) and other college prospects. So whats the problem? Well, it isn't a big problem, not at all, I find it an excellent drafting technique especially considering there's a signed player limit for NHL teams, so not wasting your roster spots and having more time to evaluate a player and have him develop outside of your organization only amplifies that when they come to the pros they are more NHL ready and there isn't a space wasted for a long term project. However, as small as this may be, it bothered me when Komisarek lost to Lucic, and why did he lose?(besides that Lucic is a tough M.F. even if he'd lose to laraque) Probably from being in college. There's no fighting in college and komi clearly didn't have the background of fighting of a Lucic type. I realize this isn't a major thing, but at the same time, when we draft more physical tough players, is the college route the wrong place to look. It's been said the WHL is much more physically tough than the QMJHL for example, I wonder how much of a difference it is compared to college. It isn't everything, but to me, it's starting to feel like a similar concept to the emelin playing a NA game in Russia. The whole doesn't max his development issue. I'm not saying they shouldn't have drafted who they have drafted, I like who we have on the team and in the system, I just ask myself and obviously, you, if more physical players should be drafted in a market where they trive, as good as emelin is for instance, would we have been better off drafting a slightly less rated prospect in the same mold that is in a better environment. It's no secret the habs say they always go for the best pick/player available, but at what point is the BPA not worth drafting because he's not in the best league available for his development?(assuming he intends to stay in that league/market).

This can easily be shot down, but I'm kind of bringing it out there for discussion, rather than rejection or approval. Just food for thought.

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Old
11-23-2008, 04:32 PM
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Ncaa is an excellent league to develop a player, but as it is different from others, it is better for some, and not as good for otehrs, as you pointed out.

The only guy I worry about it Andrew Conboy. He was drafted to become a kind of Chris Neil type, I believe... If he never fights, he's not really a Chris Neil, maybe he's gonna learn it later on, but he won't be able to practice his style for like 3-4 years..

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11-23-2008, 04:36 PM
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Who cares about fighting as long as you're not soft (See Komi) and you have the necessary skill (See Pacioretty) you will win hockey games and that's what matters.

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11-23-2008, 04:37 PM
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Chris nylan played at northeastern university...

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11-23-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek View Post
Who cares about fighting as long as you're not soft (See Komi) and you have the necessary skill (See Pacioretty) you will win hockey games and that's what matters.
Komisarek is an excellent player but you do wonder had he practiced fighting more if guys like lucic and such would've even got the opportunity to thrive against us. With his size and strenght, if he was a far better fighter(when he punches he just swings, looking down or he grapples with a guy) signing guys like laraque wouldn't have been necessary.

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11-23-2008, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Markov79fan View Post
Chris nylan played at northeastern university...
George Parros is an Ivy leaguer....Princeton.

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11-23-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Komisarek is an excellent player but you do wonder had he practiced fighting more if guys like lucic and such would've even got the opportunity to thrive against us. With his size and strenght, if he was a far better fighter(when he punches he just swings, looking down or he grapples with a guy) signing guys like laraque wouldn't have been necessary.
Guys like Lucic thrive against Montreal cause the habs lack more Komisareks. It has nothing to do with fighting.

Montreal simply lacks overall toughness and size to battle bigger opposition.

Brisebois, Bouillon, Gorges, O"Bryne lack strength and/or size.

And frankly, there forwards are even worse. Eric Cole dominated the habs for years and that had nothing to do with fighting. It had to do with size, skill, strength, skating, and physical play.

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11-23-2008, 04:58 PM
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Unique to North American professional team sports, the National Hockey League (NHL) and most minor professional leagues in North America do not eject players outright for fighting but major European and collegiate hockey leagues do.
From wikipedia. So, fighting isn't banned but certainly not accepted in the NCAA. So these guys still have a chance to fight but if a guy like parros or nilan fought in the NCAA and if a guy like komisarek did, there's a big difference in what they bring. Lose parros, you lose a tough guy, lose komisarek you lose a top pairing D. Enforces have come from the NCAA, granted, that means something, but more often than not, most real skilled players from the NCAA can't fight and not regret it in college.

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Old
11-23-2008, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
Guys like Lucic thrive against Montreal cause the habs lack more Komisareks. It has nothing to do with fighting.

Montreal simply lacks overall toughness and size to battle bigger opposition.

Brisebois, Bouillon, Gorges, O"Bryne lack strength and/or size.

And frankly, there forwards are even worse. Eric Cole dominated the habs for years and that had nothing to do with fighting. It had to do with size, skill, strength, skating, and physical play.
Fighting was an example, but it's made as more of a example, such as the emelin one, in a league where his style doesn't thrive.

As for cole, it shouldn't come as a surprise a guy who was nearly a point per game the last 3 years and having an average of 32.8 goals per season over a 82 game season the last 3 years. No **** he'd make points against a team that didn't make the playoffs or just snuck in before that. He's a good player and he too played in college. But honestly, it's not a because they played overseas and not in the CHL they are nobodys. Alex ovechkin's from russia, played in russia, he scores and is a dominating physical player, but no ****, he too is a good player. The question is, if komisarek played in the chl for instance, or if emelin was drafted out of the CHL, in the long run, would they be better players than they are now? Komisarek in the fighting aspect and emelin just plain in terms of his game where his style is allowed. There are other players to consider im sure.

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Old
11-24-2008, 08:05 AM
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Even if Komisarek had played in the Dub and were a good fighter, do you want your #2 D fighting on a regular basis? I personally don't want Komi to a) risk injury or b) be off the ice for five minutes very often, and that has nothing to do with the fact that he's not very good at fighting. It's because he's more valuable to us on the ice than in the penalty box or on IR.

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11-24-2008, 09:31 AM
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Fighting in the NCAA is rare but it still happens. Heck even Chris Higgins had a fight while at Yale.

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11-24-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
Guys like Lucic thrive against Montreal cause the habs lack more Komisareks. It has nothing to do with fighting.

Montreal simply lacks overall toughness and size to battle bigger opposition.

Brisebois, Bouillon, Gorges, O"Bryne lack strength and/or size.

And frankly, there forwards are even worse. Eric Cole dominated the habs for years and that had nothing to do with fighting. It had to do with size, skill, strength, skating, and physical play.
You guys are blowing Lucic's value way out of proportion. Boston has not beaten us the last 2 games because of Lucic...it's been because of guys like Savard, Krejci, Kessel. They have beaten us with skill, and partly because we have beaten ourselves(the game 10 days ago) with giveaways and dumb penalities.

As for Cole it's a fluke thing, certain players have great luck against certain teams...just look at Umburger last year, every puck he shot seemed to hit something or go in(or our goalie would misplay it).

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11-24-2008, 10:54 AM
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I like the strategy Timmins and Gainey are employing in drafting from the NCAA on principal but is the NCAA developing superstars or other high-end calibre players? I honestly do not know as I do not follow college hockey. Do the prospects get enough games and who are some stars that came from NCAA? I know the Habs players but outside of them I do not know.

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11-24-2008, 11:27 AM
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Why was Komi the one fighting Lucic? I've seen the fight, but I didn't see what led up to it. Had Lucic just laid someone out and Komi was giving the immediate response? Was Laraque not dressed that night? Komisarek's a tough kid, but he's too valuable to be doing the dirty work.

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11-24-2008, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Fighting in the NCAA is rare but it still happens. Heck even Chris Higgins had a fight while at Yale.
Since then...I haven't seen him push or yap at somebody.....Not even saw a nasty look.....

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11-24-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You guys are blowing Lucic's value way out of proportion. Boston has not beaten us the last 2 games because of Lucic...it's been because of guys like Savard, Krejci, Kessel. They have beaten us with skill, and partly because we have beaten ourselves(the game 10 days ago) with giveaways and dumb penalities.

As for Cole it's a fluke thing, certain players have great luck against certain teams...just look at Umburger last year, every puck he shot seemed to hit something or go in(or our goalie would misplay it).
Its in regards to players not teams we are referring to. Certain players thrive against the habs and it has a lot to do with their makeup. We aren't saying that Kessel or Savard have nothing to do with it but its the combination of those players with Lucic that makes it effective.

Montreal for years has had trouble with guys who have size, skill and can skate. A lot of teams do, however Montreal seems prone to it because of the lack of size and strength on the backend. Toronto even dominates Montreal down low the last few years with guys like Ponikarovsky and Antropov.

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11-24-2008, 02:58 PM
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It's not only about komisarek. You wonder had sergei played elsewhere, would he still have that type of fiesty attitude? People say playing under hunter(i think) is what made him this way.

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Old
11-24-2008, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Since then...I haven't seen him push or yap at somebody.....Not even saw a nasty look.....
There ya go WS.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg habs.jpg‎ (30.3 KB, 8 views)

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Old
11-24-2008, 03:07 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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There ya go WS.
Classic.

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11-24-2008, 03:08 PM
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There ya go WS.
Got me there...

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11-24-2008, 03:09 PM
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Got me there...
I've got one more for you, just awaiting the good timing.

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