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Are these legit skates? white vapor XXXX's completely different look.

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Old
11-29-2008, 03:20 PM
  #26
HeHateMeFrisbee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt24 View Post
Yeah. Bauer has their Chinese production factory make them Easton knockoffs that say Bauer XXXX on them. That makes perfect sense.
Actually it does. They made samples to show bauer what kind skates they can make. But go ahead and think they are some kind of other skate. But before you do that, explain to me why they are synergys with bauer logos?

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11-30-2008, 11:59 AM
  #27
lunaxod
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Hi gang, I


Last edited by lunaxod: 11-30-2008 at 12:06 PM.
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Old
11-30-2008, 12:09 PM
  #28
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Hi gang, Iím the guy whoís selling these skates, so I thought to stop by and clear up few things. To the mods, Iím not here for advertising of any kind, or flame wars, but want to end rumors of any kind with regards to my skates. If anyone whishes to obtain more information on a purchasing please do it thru Ebay or Craiglist and not thru this forumís bandwidth.

First off all I like the criticism some of you made that means I have to improve on certain points for my potential customers.

If you look at the pictures of toe cap itís a V40, and I will guarantee that I use stock V40ís and now starting on One95.

Everything is done by hand, so yes there will be imperfections, but mind you, I have no designer education, nor experienced, Iíve never used a sewing machine before, since this is my third pair, I think itís not bad, far from perfect of course as you pointed out.

Now the stitching is crooked, two things. If you watched a video of ďHow Itís madeĒ skate edition, when they manufacture skates everything is sewn flat then formed around a Foot Last, with computerized sewing machines which are programmed to stitch perfectly around the edges, I have not made enough money on this to purchase these machines, plus theyíre useless to me since I canít take a part the whole skate and put it back again, I can only stitch around it. But the quality of the cutout and stitching will improve as I make more of these. Also I use 128 heavy thread even thought the stitching looks crooked now, it will never come off, itís much heavier thread then on stock V40 skates. Iím also willing to give one year guarantee that if it comes off for any reason at all Iíll fix it for free.

As for material Iíve experimented with many types, but itís hard to find some gin strong, water repellant and light in weight plus in white color, so the combo I stopped on is the black PU is super light and the white PU is heavier then the silver PU Bauer uses. But white PU is thicker and a lot stronger then the Bauerís silver one, plus after experimenting with my screen-printing guy it prints better on this leather then any other type.

Weight issue, since I strip some of the silver stuff it reduces weight, but then I add more, so without the felt tongue itís heavier about by 30 grams, with the tongue itís another 30 grams. Now if you ordered custom model from Bauer with a long white felt tongue and stiffer model then retail, Iím sure mine would be on par in weight with that skate. If youíre anal about your skate weight, then play on empty stomach:-) Remember one thing if a heavy skate fits perfectly on your foot, it will always feel lighter then one which is loose, but lighter in weight.

As for stiffer skates not for everyone, well if youíre paying $700 US for my skates I want it to last longer then retail version, some will say One95 is not stiff enough for them, so itís all subjective.

Now the synergy look, yes itís similar, but as with everything in our society people borrow other peoples designs and change them, I simply went with something I thought would look good, so it has some synergy similarity, but not on the back of the skate, the only resemblance is the side cut.



Someone mentioned that there is a white SE for $500, thatísí right there is also an RBK white version, thatís why Iím only doing models which even the pros canít order in white version. Itís also not for everybody, as with all unique things in life to have something one of a kind you have to pay more then the average.

Next issue, Kovalev reference, it has nothing to do with him heís a CCM/RBK guy and most likely will stay forever; itís simply a marketing strategy for the search function.

Also Bauer has nothing to do with this version, I think a 400million company knows that investing in a limited edition skate is not very profitable, especially when you have shareholders.

Now the price, lets see my cost for a skate is $450 CND, plus screen-printing which is done every time from scratch because each size needs a new screen, so thatísí another $80 CND, plus if I wanted to add white ink which is in my other concept models then it has to be printed twice, thatís another expense. Also my leather cut outs are one-piece so everything is oversized and must be specially printed on larger machines for screen-printing, which is extra cost

Then there is the cost of special ink, plus all other materials, then I have to pay the guy who rivets it back, after everything Iím barely making a $200 CND and it takes two full days non stop work, so Iím working for less then minimum wage for now, oh yeah plus the $50 for Ebay advertising, so actually $150 CND. If things pick up, Iíll buy the necessary machines to cut cost and save time, plus it will allow me to make more complex and better looking designs. But as we all know Vapor 40ís dropped in price the economy is not as good so people stay away from expensive purchases. Also my prices are in US and teh CND dropps all the time which does not help my situation.

Now lets do some math, Vapor 40 dropped in price so the cheapest way is $550 CND I think at National Sports plus tax your at $600 CND, now if you wanted a white felt tongue installed thatís minimum $100 CND more, now youíre at $700, mine is only $150 CND more, do you think that it's really outrages for all that work?

If you can find someone who will draw a design for you from scratch, will find proper materials, will print logos, change eyelets, stitch everything properly, so it wonít fall off after heat molding or your first skate and will do it cheaper then my price, please let me know, Iíll hire that person today.

Now my next skate ONE95, Iíll take pictures every step of the process so you will understand that itís hard work and not a cheap knock off.

Itís good to have a healthy argument as long as no emotions are involved and no personal agenda, so please fire away your questions and criticism as well.

Cheers

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Old
11-30-2008, 12:44 PM
  #29
AHF
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I think your title is what is throwing everybody off. Don't call it something it isn't.

Don't label it Kovalev, don't label it Vapor XXXX, don't label it One95...because they aren't.

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Old
11-30-2008, 01:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHF View Post
I think your title is what is throwing everybody off. Don't call it something it isn't.

Don't label it Kovalev, don't label it Vapor XXXX, don't label it One95...because they aren't.
But they are, just dressed differently. It's not an Easton or CCM skate that is dressed as Vapor. Plus I'm not fooling anyone, if you read the full description everything is there. How am I different from any other manufacturer which puts out the same model of skate or sticks every year then invents different technical words so people think itís something new, but Iím not even doing that. My title is simply for you to click on it after that you draw your own conclusion. I'm not selling a $50 skate for $700 so I donít se that is the problem here.


Cheers

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11-30-2008, 01:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHF View Post
I think your title is what is throwing everybody off. Don't call it something it isn't.

Don't label it Kovalev, don't label it Vapor XXXX, don't label it One95...because they aren't.

Gotta agree with him. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions for ya for alternate titles.

I think if you want to include the One95 or the quadX in your description, that's fair and you should get quite a few hits like that. But using it in a title without an explanation could be misleading.

But $700 for a custom made - I prefer the word prototype, since it's not an exact model that's down to a certain process yet - skate? I'll be honest, that price tag will catch my eye, but for all the wrong reasons. My advice, and it may not be advice that you want to hear, is start low. If it means using equipment that costs less (read: slightly lower quality), then that might be a route you might have to go. As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was CCM...or something like that.

That's my 0.02 USD.

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Old
11-30-2008, 01:37 PM
  #32
lunaxod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjs View Post
Gotta agree with him. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions for ya for alternate titles.

I think if you want to include the One95 or the quadX in your description, that's fair and you should get quite a few hits like that. But using it in a title without an explanation could be misleading.

But $700 for a custom made - I prefer the word prototype, since it's not an exact model that's down to a certain process yet - skate? I'll be honest, that price tag will catch my eye, but for all the wrong reasons. My advice, and it may not be advice that you want to hear, is start low. If it means using equipment that costs less (read: slightly lower quality), then that might be a route you might have to go. As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was CCM...or something like that.

That's my 0.02 USD.


What weíre discussing here is ethics, which is never ending argument, since everybody has their own point of view. Iím here to discuss the actual product and its quality, not ethics. Misleading or not is subjective and how each one interprets it. For example that ad of GM on TV you see for a low price of 19,999.99 and a very tiny print on the bottom which tells you youíre not getting it for that price is also misleading to the most extreme power, but itís still there and have been for many years. Another example is, if I take a CLK55 change the body kit and rims and paint it different color, does it change to a different car if the mechanical parts are still the same?

But Iím not misleading anyone in MY OPINION, the description says it all, how you interpret it I canít control.

Cheers

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Old
11-30-2008, 04:01 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunaxod View Post
But they are, just dressed differently. It's not an Easton or CCM skate that is dressed as Vapor. Plus I'm not fooling anyone, if you read the full description everything is there. How am I different from any other manufacturer which puts out the same model of skate or sticks every year then invents different technical words so people think itís something new, but Iím not even doing that. My title is simply for you to click on it after that you draw your own conclusion. I'm not selling a $50 skate for $700 so I donít se that is the problem here.


Cheers
Name it properly is all I'm saying. Had you done so, this thread would not exist.

Something along the lines of "Customized Vapor XXXX" is all you need.

I understand that you want to get 'hits' but all you're doing is creating false advertising.

"Nike Bauer Vapor 40 & ONE95 Kovalev White Skates XXXX" doesn't make any sort of sense. How the heck can it be both a Vapor 40 and One 95 at the same time? Call it what it is, it'll save your credibility and it'll save you a lot of problems.

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11-30-2008, 11:04 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunaxod View Post
What weíre discussing here is ethics, which is never ending argument, since everybody has their own point of view. Iím here to discuss the actual product and its quality, not ethics. Misleading or not is subjective and how each one interprets it. For example that ad of GM on TV you see for a low price of 19,999.99 and a very tiny print on the bottom which tells you youíre not getting it for that price is also misleading to the most extreme power, but itís still there and have been for many years. Another example is, if I take a CLK55 change the body kit and rims and paint it different color, does it change to a different car if the mechanical parts are still the same?

But Iím not misleading anyone in MY OPINION, the description says it all, how you interpret it I canít control.

Cheers
I knew it was you, Rubo.

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11-30-2008, 11:23 PM
  #35
The Tikkanen
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If somebody is dumb enough to buy those then that is what the market says they're worth. Personally, I don't think there is a market for $700 skates that have custom hand made stuff done to them by somebody who admittedly has no experience.

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12-01-2008, 06:36 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunaxod View Post
What weíre discussing here is ethics....
all I needed to read.

Uhhh, best of luck I guess.

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12-01-2008, 10:12 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ModSquad View Post
I knew it was you, Rubo.
Sorry do I know you?

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12-01-2008, 11:03 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by lunaxod View Post
Sorry do I know you?
You post on my site.

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12-01-2008, 11:33 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ModSquad View Post
You post on my site.
There are few mods on that site most of whom don't like my posts; you guys edit my posts all the time, so I stopped getting involved in discussions, mostly reading I guess. That's why I never posted anything about my skates over there; you guys close it down very quick. I can't say I'm mad or bitter, I understand the politics of your operation. The question is, how long before the mods here will start doing it too. Iím here only to answer questions about my skates, donít want to get involved in any discussions, I've learned long time a go that my ideas & concepts are not for everyone to understand, so there is no reason to waste my breath on it. Letís not waste bandwidth, if you want we'll move it to a private discussion or thru email.

Cheers

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12-01-2008, 02:41 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeHateMeFrisbee View Post
Actually it does. They made samples to show bauer what kind skates they can make. But go ahead and think they are some kind of other skate. But before you do that, explain to me why they are synergys with bauer logos?


Yeah, I'm just gonna listen to this smart guy from now on...

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12-01-2008, 02:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HeHateMeFrisbee View Post
Actually it does. They made samples to show bauer what kind skates they can make.
Because every skate isn't custom designed by the company with custom equipment and setup needed to make it? I very much doubt that they're the same factory too. Not to mention that at least the nicer models are made in Canada or the US...

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12-01-2008, 07:19 PM
  #42
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Those skates are not even VaporXXXX's!
I would start to worry about copyright infringement!
Peolple might be watching! You never know who is out there my friend!

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12-01-2008, 10:42 PM
  #43
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these were some nice white skates
I remember wanting those skates so badly when I was like 14. I used to go into the local hockey store just to look at them. Thank goodness my dad never bought them for me. white skates are for figure skating...

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12-01-2008, 10:44 PM
  #44
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I'd rather have these for $500.

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12-01-2008, 10:50 PM
  #45
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Because every skate isn't custom designed by the company with custom equipment and setup needed to make it? I very much doubt that they're the same factory too. Not to mention that at least the nicer models are made in Canada or the US...
He's being sarcastic. Probably bored at work. Rich - go do something.

Retail XXXXs are made in China. Only retail skate made in Canada is the ONE95 along w/ Custom XXXX, 95 and FL12.

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12-02-2008, 12:44 PM
  #46
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Retail XXXXs are made in China. Only retail skate made in Canada is the ONE95 along w/ Custom XXXX, 95 and FL12.
Really, that few? That's pretty pitiful.

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12-02-2008, 12:56 PM
  #47
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Everyone has to remember he's selling these on ebay. Half the game on ebay is just getting potential buyers to look at your product so his ad's title is somewhat justified since he clearly descibes them in the ad. I don't necessarilly agree with the "phishing" auction title techniques but having been a member of ebay for a long time I do realize their affectiveness in attracting potential buyers. Since his "franken-skates" are just that, his title could be a variety of things and as I stated before, the fact that he clearly describes them in the auction body is more important than the auction title itself (if someone is dumb enough to buy something on ebay by a title alone then they deserve to lose their money). If he was a store or an actual manufacturer, rather than just an individual who does this on the side, then I would most definitely expect a legitimate and clear auction title, but since he's just someone who decided to sell his arts and crafts projects then I guess he gets the same slack as the rest of the ebay community.

Now on to my opinion of those skates... hideous, I don't care much for these newer designs and adding all that white just makes them worse. The only good looking skate with a good amount of white in the design was the old Mega's w/ the white webbing around the heel/ankle, always loved those. Just my .02

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Old
12-11-2008, 11:26 PM
  #48
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Ok, as promised here are few fresh pictures form the current work I'm doing:

Cheers.











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Old
12-11-2008, 11:39 PM
  #49
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Great job on them. I'd be worried about the fact that you've had items made up with Bauer's logo on them.
It's not just customization, you're using a legally owned symbol. I would hope you have some kind of consent or loop hole.

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