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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

John Madden

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Old
11-25-2008, 09:36 PM
  #26
hockeyball
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No doubt Madden is a fantastic defensive player. My point is, we have too many centers, and ALL of our centers are defensively capable. Marleau has been absolutely fantastic this year defensively.

We are not going to trade a center and an asset of some sort (to make cap space) for a rental. It won't help us, we'll lose more than we gain in the bargain, and I would argue one excellent defensive forward does not equal a squad of very good defensive forwards.

Madden would no help the sharks at the cost of what would be required to attain him, lose him in the offseason and give up to make cap space.

The Sharks are the best team in hockey, and show no signs of letting up. To make a trade of any sort at this point would be absolutely rediculous.

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Old
11-25-2008, 09:40 PM
  #27
Jack Bourdain
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He's very old, but I still like him. At 35, this will probably be his last contract before going on a yearly basis.

I would be willing to give up TWO unnamed prospect and a low pick for Madden and a higher pick.

Example:

To New Jersey:

David Fisher
Jason Missaien
5th round pick 09

To Montreal:

John Madden
3rd round pick

A line down the center of: Koivu, Plekanec, Madden, Chipchura would look very defensively sound.

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Old
11-25-2008, 11:43 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Hawks offer significant futures at the deadline.
Yep. This move wouldn't surprise me. Kontiola is apparently mumbling about wanting traded, and he's a good prospect. I'm betting he goes out at the deadline for whoever the Hawks need to trade for to get some veteran, solid defensive forward. Madden is exactly the kind of guy the Hawks need. Maybe Kontiola and Toronto's 2nd?

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Old
11-26-2008, 02:15 AM
  #29
kyle evs48
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Originally Posted by NYRhockey16 View Post
If all of you guys are saying that he'd be great for a team that wants to make a strong run in the playoffs, why not keep him in NJ? Or is he a UFA next year and you want to get something for him?
Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Piffle View Post
Maybe Kontiola and Toronto's 2nd?
I'd take that. Fans that don't see the big picture would complain about losing a franchise player like Madden, but it would help the team in the long run.

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Old
11-26-2008, 02:21 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piffle View Post
Yep. This move wouldn't surprise me. Kontiola is apparently mumbling about wanting traded, and he's a good prospect. I'm betting he goes out at the deadline for whoever the Hawks need to trade for to get some veteran, solid defensive forward. Madden is exactly the kind of guy the Hawks need. Maybe Kontiola and Toronto's 2nd?
Pretty much exactly the offer I had in mind.

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Old
11-26-2008, 10:47 AM
  #31
Harrison Ford
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To Mon: John Madden

To NJ: Chipchura, Massien, 4th Round Pick

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Old
11-26-2008, 12:13 PM
  #32
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I agree that Madden would fill a key playoff-run role for the Sharks, I think that role is being seriously undervalued by a couple of the posters responding. However, first and foremost, I don't think it could remotely be worked out cap-wise, so I don't think this happens unless it's at the deadline, and may be a bit easier to work with the cap...

But really, Goc, Mitchell, Plihal, Roenick? I would far prefer to have a guy like Madden anchoring that shutdown line, with Grier and maybe Mitchell on a wing.. but I just don't see this deal getting done due to cap issues.

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Old
11-26-2008, 01:06 PM
  #33
kyle evs48
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How many of those San Jose centers have won a Selke? Zero.

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Old
11-26-2008, 01:37 PM
  #34
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I'm pretty sure it's still $60 new since 09 just came out. A used copy should be around $30 or so. Wait...what are we talking about?

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Old
11-26-2008, 02:15 PM
  #35
Suddenly Zyuzin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
How many of those San Jose centers have won a Selke? Zero.
Great point. Unless you have won a Selke you must be a scrub defensively.

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Old
11-26-2008, 02:31 PM
  #36
JimEIV
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Madden hasn't only won a Selke, he has been a top Selke candidate almost every single year he has been in the league. (He only came into the league in 1999-00)

I believe there is only 1 year during that time he wasn't in the top 10 in Selke Voting and that was 2002. He also has been runner-up a couple of times during that time. He finished 3rd in Selke Voting last season as well.

Madden is a Premeire Defensive center in the league

Its really a shame that Defensively Responsible forwards get mentioned in the same breath as Defensive Specialist. There are a lot of good Defensively Responsible forwards - There aren't to many real shutdown guys.

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Old
11-26-2008, 04:19 PM
  #37
kyle evs48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Zyuzin View Post
Great point. Unless you have won a Selke you must be a scrub defensively.
Doesn't matter. Madden is better defensively than any of SJ's centers.

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Old
11-26-2008, 04:29 PM
  #38
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to NJ:

Iginla
Phaneuf
Cammaleri

to CAL:

Madden
Pandolfo
a cheeseburger

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Old
11-26-2008, 04:47 PM
  #39
hockeyball
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And pretty much every SJ center (asside from Goc) is better offensively, considerably, than Madden. SJ is playing an offense first system, and giving up one of our offensive centers would take away from our offensive strength.

Again i will make the point, a group of defensively capable forwards is preferable to one defensively bad ass forward. We have no room for Madden, we have no need (in the system we play) for Madden.

However, if you want to make a serious deal, that would work cap wise (or close anyway) it would have to be something like this:

TO SJ:
John Madden
1st 2009
2nd 2009

TO NJ:
Johnathon Cheechoo
Marcel Goc
Thomas Greiss

That get's you an excellent sniper who works well in your system and is struggling in ours. A strong checking, defensively responsible center, and an excellent goal tending prospect. I think the 1st and 2nd will be seen as harsh, but as Madden is a rental, and Greiss is extremely well thought of in the Sharks system (and the last goalie coached by Strelow) I think it makes sense for both teams.

Sharks recover some picks, dump about 4m in salary for next season. Get Madden for the playoffs. NJ gets a possible successor to Brodeur and Cheechoo.

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Old
11-26-2008, 05:30 PM
  #40
Jack Bourdain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
And pretty much every SJ center (asside from Goc) is better offensively, considerably, than Madden. SJ is playing an offense first system, and giving up one of our offensive centers would take away from our offensive strength.

Again i will make the point, a group of defensively capable forwards is preferable to one defensively bad ass forward. We have no room for Madden, we have no need (in the system we play) for Madden.

However, if you want to make a serious deal, that would work cap wise (or close anyway) it would have to be something like this:

TO SJ:
John Madden
1st 2009
2nd 2009

TO NJ:
Johnathon Cheechoo
Marcel Goc
Thomas Greiss

That get's you an excellent sniper who works well in your system and is struggling in ours. A strong checking, defensively responsible center, and an excellent goal tending prospect. I think the 1st and 2nd will be seen as harsh, but as Madden is a rental, and Greiss is extremely well thought of in the Sharks system (and the last goalie coached by Strelow) I think it makes sense for both teams.

Sharks recover some picks, dump about 4m in salary for next season. Get Madden for the playoffs. NJ gets a possible successor to Brodeur and Cheechoo.
Sharks get picks, dump salary and get arguably the better player in the deal? I don't think so.

Cheechoo does not warrant that many assets.

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Old
11-26-2008, 05:40 PM
  #41
hockeyball
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A 30+ goal scorer signed to an excellent contract.

A young solid defensive griding forward signed pretty cheap.

And a top goaltending prospect thats a year from NHL ready...

I think you may be overvaluing your rental slightly.

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Old
11-26-2008, 05:40 PM
  #42
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The thing about John Madden is he's no Brett Farve, and Brett Farve when he's on he can really throw that ball to the players that get the touchdowns... i mean he can really throw it! hawgrrhawha... ....waggggcoughcough

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Old
11-26-2008, 05:41 PM
  #43
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Tough Actin' Tanactin FTW
LMAO, classic.

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Old
11-26-2008, 07:03 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Doesn't matter. Madden is better defensively than any of SJ's centers.
First of all, cap-wise John Madden couldn't fit in San Jose. Secondly, there's really no trade that would make it work where the Sharks dump enough salary to make it under the cap and make it worth it. Thirdly, he's not even needed. The Sharks don't need him as the guys they have are good enough defensively and fit well in the system that McLellan is using which I don't think Madden would really fit well in.

You guys need to think things through on the proposals. Even if Madden would be a good fit, which is a possibility that I'll grant, there are more to it than just making it happen. Cap and value go into this and that's why New Jersey and San Jose are terrible trading partners. San Jose, in particular, because they have no pressing needs, no cap space, and nobody to trade to acquire cap space.

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Old
11-27-2008, 12:35 AM
  #45
kyle evs48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
First of all, cap-wise John Madden couldn't fit in San Jose. Secondly, there's really no trade that would make it work where the Sharks dump enough salary to make it under the cap and make it worth it. Thirdly, he's not even needed. The Sharks don't need him as the guys they have are good enough defensively and fit well in the system that McLellan is using which I don't think Madden would really fit well in.

You guys need to think things through on the proposals. Even if Madden would be a good fit, which is a possibility that I'll grant, there are more to it than just making it happen. Cap and value go into this and that's why New Jersey and San Jose are terrible trading partners. San Jose, in particular, because they have no pressing needs, no cap space, and nobody to trade to acquire cap space.
Devils need a number-one defenseman, and I don't think the Sharks will give one up for Madden or Gionta.

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