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Old
11-27-2008, 12:41 AM
  #1
Dangler87
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What's the difference between...

What's the difference between Division I College Hockey (BC, BU, Maine, UNH, Northeastern, etc) and Junior Hockey?

Which is a more competitive atmosphere?

Where would you have a better time getting noticed by NHL scouts?

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11-27-2008, 12:44 AM
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Yikes. This might turn bad.

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11-27-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangler87 View Post
What's the difference between Division I College Hockey (BC, BU, Maine, UNH, Northeastern, etc) and Junior Hockey?

Which is a more competitive atmosphere?

Where would you have a better time getting noticed by NHL scouts?
Junior is more competitive, and will probably get you to the NHL faster. College hockey is probably a better idea for players though, seeing as how they can get a degree to fall back on if their hockey career doesn't work out. It's not as though a junior player can't (part-time studies... quite a few NHLers will even do part-time degrees while they're playing) it's just that it's not a specific requirement.

You'll be noticed by scouts either way if you're a good player. More players are drafted out of junior than out of the NCAA though, which may indicate that scouts consider junior to be more competitive.

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11-27-2008, 11:11 AM
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And now for the American's point of view. NCAA has been producing more and more NHLers as of late and the top teams (say BC, BU, Michigan, Minnesota; etc) have more NHL talent on their rosters than most junior teams. When comparing to major junior, their scholarship offers are nullified if a player decides to try and go pro IIRC. It is difficult to say weather the longer schedule hurts the players or not; and it is certainly tough to argue with the fact that something like 52% or 54% of NHLers had played in the CHL.

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11-27-2008, 12:04 PM
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I guess it depends on why you are asknig the question. From a "which is more fun to watch" point of view, or for your hockey career point of view?

Fun to watch, personally I prefer college because of the bands in the arenas, and how it's about the school when it comes to the alumni. People always come back for years. Junior hockey you may get some of that, but teams do move, and sometimes you loose interest as your ag group moves further and further away. But both are very good on ice products. No question.

As far as your own hockey career, I think NCAA is the way to go, for the simple fact that you are getting your education at the same time. If you go the CHL route, yers there is the scholarship pool, but if you sign a pro contract, like greech said, that money is gone. So if you end up doing much better than you thought and have pro scouts looking at you, you have a big decision to make.

And let's not kid ourselves: At 20 years old, someone tells you you can play hockey for a living is very attractive. $15,000 may even seem like a fair bit of money(which is what a lower level pro probably makes-ECHL, etc.). But the moment you sign a piece of paper, you're on your own for school. And if you end up at 24 still in that league and decide you've had enough, now what? You're 24 having to start school, which will be tough to do, and having to pay for it yourself.

There are some other things to keep in mind. IN both cases you most likely go away to where you are playing, but unless you get yourself kicked off the team for doing something stupid on campus, you aren't getting traded somewhere else in the middle of the season. You know where you will be for the season. Plus there i academic support, because the new rules the NCAA imposed make it in the team's best interest to have you passing your courses. On the downside, you will likely be "encouraged" to take the easiest degree possible, so that you can devote more time to hockey. If you have really good grades, and could get a degree in physics or something tough like that, don't let it dissuade though. It can be done, whether the coach says so or not. It is very hard work, but you wouldn't be playing hockey if you wanted easy.

The CHL will put you in front of people. The one big advantage is that kids that are up for the NHL draft have been playing CHL for a couple of years, which gives the scouts a comfort level because they understand the competition level. NCAA is very competitive as well, but most kids start there *after* they've been drafted at 18. Scouts don't have the same comfort level with the competition prior to NCAA, because they can't tell if a guy is truly dominant, or just dominating lowly competition.

The biggest difference is cultural. The CHL is primarily based in Canada, which means in most places, the CHL team is the biggest deal going. What doe sthis mean? Local scrutiny. The people will love you if you are doing well, and will be on your case if you are screwing up. Don't delude yourself into thinking the "fans" are interested in your well-being or hockey development, or personal development. If you're helping the team win, then they may be interested in that. If not, you're some tool that's taking up space for a guy who could be helping.

Then there's the women. I assume you're younger than 16, so at first glance, this sounds great. You will have women fighting to get you into bed. When I was at school a girl in my program interviewed with the local junior team(we were all 20 at the time) for a volunteer job for school credit, and they actually asked her if she would get invovled with the players. One guy I know who played for that team was 16 and had a 23 year old girlfriend. Women can become a major problem in a major hurry. Some of them are looking for a good time. Some of them want to be able to say they slept with a guy from the team(or every guy on the team). Some of them, though, want to hitch their wagon to a potential money train. A good way of doing that is getting knocked up. So you really need to be careful.

While there will be a certain degree of that in the NCAA, for the most part the girls who are like that will be chasing the football players and basketball players. The hockey players are not held up to the same lofty status as in Canada. Now, am I saying make sure to be chaste and pure? Of course not. What I am saying though is that there is a whole off-ice issue that is absolutely huge in the CHL that you will either deal with, or learn about the hard way.

In the NCAA the hockey program typically is playing 3rd or fourth fiddle on campus. Except at a couple of schools, both football and basketball will rule the campus. This can be good or bad, depnding on what you like.

Most of this stuff though is personal. Some people like having the pressure of being the big kid in town, and if they get booed so what, but some don't. I always go back to the education. If hockey doesn't work out, you're 22 and have your education and are ready for the real world. Or if hockey does workout, you have your education and can play hockey without having to worry about schooling. The odds of making the NHL are so small, that you need to make sure you have a fall back plan. The NCAA is still a route to the NHL, and a more common one as the years go by. You're just better prepared for the real world when you're done, if you ask me.

This is not to say the CHL is bad, and you will no doubt here much more in favor of it than the NCAA, just they are different, and you need to think about that. And you need to think about it as someone who is in the system, not as a fan who buys a ticket and sees only the 60 minutes on the ice. That is the biggest thing.

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11-28-2008, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
I guess it depends....
I just wanted to say you gave a fantastic answer

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11-28-2008, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
I guess it depends on why you are asknig the question. From a "which is more fun to watch" point of view, or for your hockey career point of view?

Fun to watch, personally I prefer college because of the bands in the arenas, and how it's about the school when it comes to the alumni. People always come back for years. Junior hockey you may get some of that, but teams do move, and sometimes you loose interest as your ag group moves further and further away. But both are very good on ice products. No question.
Who goes to hockey games to watch the bands?
And in Junior hockey... teams don't move as often as you make it sound.

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11-28-2008, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by deangamblin View Post
Who goes to hockey games to watch the bands?
And in Junior hockey... teams don't move as often as you make it sound.
Dude, it's called atmosphere. An NCAA game has the bands, and student sections. A CHL game has the middle aged guy who wears the 1970s version of the teams' sweater that is 3 sizes too small who yells at the ref things that the 16 year olds around him think are cool, but is really an annoyance. If that's your cup of tea, so be it, bu frankly, CHL games have no atmopshere.

As far as teams moving, I can say for the last 22-23 years I've had at least a passing knowledge of who was in the OHL. Just off the top of my head without looking it up I can think of the Owen Sound Platers, Guelph PLaters, North Bay Centennials, Cornwall Royals, St. Mike's Majors and Niagara Falls Thunder that are no longer in the league as those franchises, they either folded or are somewhere else under another name. Just looked up 1984-85, and 85-86, and teh Kingston Canadians, Toronto Marlboros and Hamilton Steelhawks were part of the league as well. The Guelph Platers were the version of the PLaters at that time. Owen Sound and Guelph have had other franchises step in(for some reason I think it's the 3rd one for Guelph). For a 16-20 team league, in a 2o year time frame, you don't think that is alot?


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11-28-2008, 09:14 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by invictus View Post
I just wanted to say you gave a fantastic answer
Thanks....I'm sure people will dispute some of the things I wrote, and that's fine. Like I said alot of it is personal. I just really harp on the fact that the kid in question is 16-17 or even younger.

When I was 17, I was playing high school basketball, and I was convinced I was getting a scholarship. I'm a 5'8" white guy who has never been able to touch the rim, and had at best an ok jumpshot. Yet, I told anyone who said I wasn't getting a scholarship that they were crazy. Some 15 years later, it is painfully obvious to me who the crazy one was. In some ways I was lucky that I wasn't good enough to be getting looked at seriously. I had no excuse for letting schoolwork fall by the wayside, even though I tried as hard as I could...

If the OP here is good enough to be getting looked at, but maybe not a first round CHL pick, it brings up a whole set of issues, because it puts him in a maybe group. Maybe he gets on, maybe he doesn't. One CHL gamesheet and the NCAA option is gone. And who's to say that that one CHL game isn't the only game he'll ever play? I think of the nephew of a family friend played in the OHL a few years ago. Real nice kid, and when they swung through our town he would get us tickets. I just looked up his stats. I knew he had played on two different teams. Over his 4 years, he played on *5* different teams. This kid was not a complainer who demanded to be traded. As a matter of fact you would consider him fairly productive. But he played in 5 different cities, and only one barely GTA. He had 29 points his second year, 58 his third and 66 his final year. Traded every season.

The basketball coach at Indiana years ago, Bob Knight, always praised Isaiah Thomas(before he got caught up with the Knicks..lol..) as being the best example of a kid using basketball, and not letting basketball use him. It's the same for hockey. Unless you're a top star, the CHL, despite bringing in the scholarship packages to dissuade kids from going to the NCAA, is still a business to sell tickets and make money for the owners. Getting kids to the NHL is a secondary goal. It is a machine that chews kids up and spits them out, and has "this is your best chance at the NHL" as its selling point. A very few go to the NHL, but a lot don't, even those who are seemingly very good players.

Look at Danny Roussin. He played in Rimouski with Syndey Crosby. There is a real chance that, despite his skills, a lot of his production came from being on Crosby's line. In the 3 years since he's been drafted he has not been able to stick even with Manchester, the Kings' AHL affiliate. If things don't turn around for him, where is he? 24, maybe 25 years old, out of hockey, and since he signed a pro contract, he is on his own for school, and has to start going at 24 or 25. A guy who comes out of the NCAA has his degree at 22 and if he never plays hockey again, doesn't have to go back to school either.

I'm not saying that the CHL is bad, but seeing what I've seen over the past 20 years, I go back to the "use hockey, don't let it use you." I find the NCAA to be the best way to live up to that.

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12-03-2008, 01:38 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
Dude, it's called atmosphere. An NCAA game has the bands, and student sections. A CHL game has the middle aged guy who wears the 1970s version of the teams' sweater that is 3 sizes too small who yells at the ref things that the 16 year olds around him think are cool, but is really an annoyance. If that's your cup of tea, so be it, bu frankly, CHL games have no atmopshere.

As far as teams moving, I can say for the last 22-23 years I've had at least a passing knowledge of who was in the OHL. Just off the top of my head without looking it up I can think of the Owen Sound Platers, Guelph PLaters, North Bay Centennials, Cornwall Royals, St. Mike's Majors and Niagara Falls Thunder that are no longer in the league as those franchises, they either folded or are somewhere else under another name. Just looked up 1984-85, and 85-86, and teh Kingston Canadians, Toronto Marlboros and Hamilton Steelhawks were part of the league as well. The Guelph Platers were the version of the PLaters at that time. Owen Sound and Guelph have had other franchises step in(for some reason I think it's the 3rd one for Guelph). For a 16-20 team league, in a 2o year time frame, you don't think that is alot?
Atmosphere, it's more fan involvement if there's a bunch of fans getting the crowd going instead of some band playing in the background. I guess you must of been to some pretty boring CHL games then. As always there seems to be a bias in favour of NCAA around here, no point in trying to argue it.

Ok so how many teams have moved in the last 5 years? MAYBE 3? 10 years?
Those happened 20 years ago.

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