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The New York Rangers trade Alexei Kovalev to Montreal to Jozef Balej and a '04 2nd

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Old
03-03-2004, 09:32 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Good trade for the Habs and the Rangers. The Habs get a good scoring punch, but the Rangers made one of the few good trades in their recent history.
agreed.Nice move for both teams.

although I'd expected the Habs to get someone grittier.

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03-03-2004, 09:32 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by btn
I think he is a bad fit for Montreal. A Donald Audette with greater offensive potential. His gutless play in NY is no sign that this will help Montreal at all. I would have gone after more of a power forward type than a sniper.

You're obviously not that familiar with this guy. Despite any problems in New York, he showed in Pittsburgh he is very capable of placing himself among the league's elite forwards. He is probably the best puck handler in the league, he skates well, it not afraid to be physical on the forecheck when needed (ask any Pens fan), and maybe the best wrist-shot in the game behind Joe Sakic.

The Rangers is where the "bad fit" came into play... big surprise. None of the stars on that team have "met their potential" and all are guilty of lackluster play at times; it's a poorly run team on the ice, and it shows. You can't blame Kovalev for that.

I can almost guarantee you he will perform better in Montreal than he did in New York.

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03-03-2004, 09:50 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balddog66
I like how the habs are making a statement with this trade, but I think Kovalev will play the worst hockey of his career in Montreal. He doesn't play well when he's in the spotlight, he'll have to deal with the french culture and the impatient montreal fans...hopefully he proves me wrong, but I don't think he'll make any sort of impact.
I think we'll see just the opposite. Getting out of that cancerous Rangers locker room will do wonders for him. He's also playing for a new contract. I expect him to go on a tear.

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03-03-2004, 10:25 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroTheHero
Isn't Joe Juneau still on your team ?
You are quite right ! I really overlooked him. It's been so long ago that he put up good offensive numbers that I really didn't consider him.

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03-03-2004, 11:05 AM
  #105
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I think it makes the habs better and a scary 1st round opponent for sure. However, I can't help but feel they kind of overpaid. If you compare what Ottawa gave up for Bondra who has an option for next year (Balej is better than Laich, IMO and the hab 2nd is going to be higher than the Ottawa 2nd) and what the wings gave up for Lang, it seems that Gainy may have overpaid. But while they may have overpaid slightly I must admit I would not want to face them in the 1st round if Kovalov returns to form.

Boston, Ottawa, Philadelphia, and now Montreal have all made moves, the clock is ticking on the leafs and the resource pools is lowering.

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03-03-2004, 11:12 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by odiedog
This came as a total surprise to me since the Habs haven't done anything like this...ever? It's an interesting deal and something to be excited about for Habs fans but, in the end, it still isn't enough for a Cup drive. Montreal just doesn't have the team for it. If they can keep Kovalev and keep developing their young talent, this will prove to be an excellent move. If not, they wasted a prospect on a guy who is not the one to put them over the top. I don't think there is one player that could put this team over the top this year...Eric Lindros in his prime maybe
You have to consider the marketing side of it too. By doing this trade, Gainey thanks the fans for showing up in a 20 000 group every night when this team has sucked ass for a long time now. He proves he wants the team to get better and be competitive. He also says to his players that he beleives in their chances and wants to help them make it as far as they can.

Truth is, a team like the Habs can afford to lose a Balej without thinking twice about it. They have so much similar highly skilled young guys in the system that it was inevitable one of them would go eventually, especially with Ryder's and Ribeiro's emergence this year. I'm sure there's still struggling guys like Hossa or Hainsey that could be traded this year or the next one to acquire an other piece of the puzzle, while bringing in yet more youth in the team (Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastsitsyn, Plekanec...).

If Kovalev can help the Habs pass the 1st round in the playoffs, it will have been worth it.

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03-03-2004, 12:23 PM
  #107
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Steal for the habs, even Gonchar was paid better than Kovalev!
Sather is dumb, he didn't manage to receive a 1st rounder.

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03-03-2004, 12:29 PM
  #108
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It boils down to the fact that the Habs have many Balejs but they do not have any Kovalevs. Also I think Balej might be slightly overrated. Don't get me wrong he is good. I just dont see becoming a dominant player.

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03-03-2004, 01:23 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan18
I think it makes the habs better and a scary 1st round opponent for sure. However, I can't help but feel they kind of overpaid. If you compare what Ottawa gave up for Bondra who has an option for next year (Balej is better than Laich, IMO and the hab 2nd is going to be higher than the Ottawa 2nd) and what the wings gave up for Lang, it seems that Gainy may have overpaid. But while they may have overpaid slightly I must admit I would not want to face them in the 1st round if Kovalov returns to form.

Boston, Ottawa, Philadelphia, and now Montreal have all made moves, the clock is ticking on the leafs and the resource pools is lowering.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but if Kovalev doesn't resign next year, Montreal receives a compensatory 2nd round pick, where if Bondra doesn't resign, the Sens don't receive anything.
I think the 2nd rounder is NYs insurance of getting a compensatory pick for Kovalev.

Also, Bondra is 36, and would not command as high as a 30 or 31 year old.
Not to mention that the Wings gave up a first in the deal for Lang.

I believe the trade was very fair for bot teams, and i'd be more than happy to sacrifice that 2nd rounder if Kovalev does indeed resign with the habs.

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03-03-2004, 01:34 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Quagmier
Correct me if i'm wrong, but if Kovalev doesn't resign next year, Montreal receives a compensatory 2nd round pick, where if Bondra doesn't resign, the Sens don't receive anything.
I can't correct you because I'm not sure. However the sens don't receive anything because it is the team's option on Bondra, not Bondra's, this is why it is different. I did not mean that the habs got ripped off, I just thought compared to other deals it was a slight overpayment. Kovalev is not exactly tearing up the league and he is a UFA at season's end, where as Bondra will be with Ottawa next season. Add to the fact that the Mtl 2nd rounder is greater than the Ottawa 2nd rounder and Balej is greater than Laich, IMO, and that is the reason that I thought it was a slight overpayment.

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03-03-2004, 01:53 PM
  #111
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I love the trade. I especially relish the excitement that is being felt in the Habs' dressing room (I hope). Balej is fun, but not a top quality prospect. The chances he'll amount to anything valuable in the NHL are as good as those he won't.

Regarding the potential compensation pick, it's not an automatic second. The pick we receive depends, among other things, on the amount of his contract. And with the market as it is, I think teams will restrain themselves from bidding his value up.

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03-03-2004, 02:00 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
You have to consider the marketing side of it too. By doing this trade, Gainey thanks the fans for showing up in a 20 000 group every night when this team has sucked ass for a long time now. He proves he wants the team to get better and be competitive. He also says to his players that he beleives in their chances and wants to help them make it as far as they can.

Truth is, a team like the Habs can afford to lose a Balej without thinking twice about it. They have so much similar highly skilled young guys in the system that it was inevitable one of them would go eventually, especially with Ryder's and Ribeiro's emergence this year. I'm sure there's still struggling guys like Hossa or Hainsey that could be traded this year or the next one to acquire an other piece of the puzzle, while bringing in yet more youth in the team (Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastsitsyn, Plekanec...).

If Kovalev can help the Habs pass the 1st round in the playoffs, it will have been worth it.
Well said

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Old
03-03-2004, 02:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by sensfan18
I can't correct you because I'm not sure. However the sens don't receive anything because it is the team's option on Bondra, not Bondra's, this is why it is different. I did not mean that the habs got ripped off, I just thought compared to other deals it was a slight overpayment. Kovalev is not exactly tearing up the league and he is a UFA at season's end, where as Bondra will be with Ottawa next season. Add to the fact that the Mtl 2nd rounder is greater than the Ottawa 2nd rounder and Balej is greater than Laich, IMO, and that is the reason that I thought it was a slight overpayment.
I honestly believe it was fair value for the trade. At worst, we rent a player for the playoffs and receive a 2nd round pick back which means it cost us Balej to have an exciting off season. However, from what Gainey has said, he isn't looking to rent players so the intention is more than likely to resign him as long as his play in Montreal warrants it. So to get Kovalev at 31 vs Bondra at 36, I'd have to say that I'm pretty excited at the possibility to have Kovalev in a Habs uniform for the next 2 or 3 years. We also had so many quality prospects in the farm that it only makes sense to give them the opportunity to play in another team since there won't be room for them all in Montreal.

It's great to have a marquee scorer to look for again. I can't remember the last time we did.

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03-03-2004, 04:23 PM
  #114
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I don't think Gainey overpaid. Actually I think he paid less than what I thought Kovalev would go for. Houle was able to get more for similar players on the verge of UFA in Damphousse, Malakhov and Recchi, and Houle was an idiot. But, I don't think it's the right deal for the Habs. IMO Kovalev won't be a difference maker for the Habs. The Habs need size and physicality on the top two lines and on the 4, 5, 6 dmen. This trade doesn't address those needs. For a 2nd and Balej plus a bit extra, I would have expected Gainey to address said needs for this season and beyond.


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03-03-2004, 04:48 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroTheHero
Isn't 6-2 210lbs considered a good size?
I meant to say size and physical play that you get from a hardhitting blueliner or a power forward.

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03-03-2004, 05:23 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Malakhov and Recchi, and Houle was an idiot.
I have to disagree here. Souray is great now, but lets face it, the habs coaching staff is why he has progressed, and I don't think anybody will say Zubrus was good return for anybody.

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03-03-2004, 05:32 PM
  #117
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I have to disagree here. Souray is great now, but lets face it, the habs coaching staff is why he has progressed, and I don't think anybody will say Zubrus was good return for anybody.
Like it or not Zubrus and Souray were proven NHLer's when they were dealt and plus Houle was able to get 2nd rounders and other pieces in those deals. Zubrus was just a couple of years removed from being a 1st rounder and making the NHL as an 18 year old. Balej is a nice prospect, but is still a huge roll of the dice and is miles behind where Zubrus and Souray were when they were dealt to the Habs.

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03-03-2004, 05:41 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Like it or not Zubrus and Souray were proven NHLer's when they were dealt and plus Houle was able to get 2nd rounders and other pieces in those deals. Zubrus was just a couple of years removed from being a 1st rounder and making the NHL as an 18 year old. Balej is a nice prospect, but is still a huge roll of the dice and is miles behind where Zubrus and Souray were when they were dealt to the Habs.
I don't think anybody felt Zubrus was going to accomplish anything at the time, same with Souray. Moreso Zubrus than Souray, but hindsight says we won both deals, so I'm not complaining.

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03-03-2004, 05:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
I don't think anybody felt Zubrus was going to accomplish anything at the time, same with Souray. Moreso Zubrus than Souray, but hindsight says we won both deals, so I'm not complaining.
I thought Zubrus was a hell of a pickup personally. I really thought he was the 1st line winger with size that Koivu needed. I saw a potential power forward. Can't speak for everybody, I would have rather resigned Recchi, but I liked the trade at the time given that Recchi was a goner anyway. Liked it alot better when Zubrus was turned into Zednik though

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03-03-2004, 06:01 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by sensfan18
I can't correct you because I'm not sure. However the sens don't receive anything because it is the team's option on Bondra, not Bondra's, this is why it is different. I did not mean that the habs got ripped off, I just thought compared to other deals it was a slight overpayment. Kovalev is not exactly tearing up the league and he is a UFA at season's end, where as Bondra will be with Ottawa next season. Add to the fact that the Mtl 2nd rounder is greater than the Ottawa 2nd rounder and Balej is greater than Laich, IMO, and that is the reason that I thought it was a slight overpayment.
I gotta disagree here...
Scenario 1:
The habs don't resign Kovalev at the end of the year, they do, in fact, receive a compensatory 2nd round pick. In this case, they traded Josef Balej for Alexei Kovalev's services for a year, and a shot at going deeper in the playoffs, which would result in an increase in profits... Considering the market value for UFAs this season, i don't really consider that overpayment.

Scenario 2:
The habs do resign Kovalev, and do not receive the compensatory 2nd round pick. This is where i find the Bondra comparison appropriate. If Kovalev resigns with the habs, then the situation is very similar to Bondra's: A good prospect and a 2nd for an experienced, proven veteran. Since I believe that Kovalev, should he be signed for more than a year, is a more valuable commodity than a slightly older Bondra, then i believe that the high quality of the prospect (Balej) and the higher 2nd is justified.

I also believe that both deals (Bondra and Kovalev) were great deals for both teams, and not an overpayment on either side.

Just to add something... The excitement that this deal has added to the city of Montreal, and habs fans especially has already made the deal a win. Its hard to fully comprehend the frustration that habs fans have felt over the past decade, and no matter what the outcome of this deal, this shows the fans of montreal that things are on the way up. The buzz that's been going around today hasn't really been felt in this city in a long time, and even if Balej does go on to reach his full potential (which I fully believe he will) I would still be in full support of this trade.

This is amazing!

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03-03-2004, 06:43 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmier
Just to add something... The excitement that this deal has added to the city of Montreal, and habs fans especially has already made the deal a win. Its hard to fully comprehend the frustration that habs fans have felt over the past decade, and no matter what the outcome of this deal, this shows the fans of montreal that things are on the way up. The buzz that's been going around today hasn't really been felt in this city in a long time, and even if Balej does go on to reach his full potential (which I fully believe he will) I would still be in full support of this trade.

This is amazing!
Totally agree with you, nice to see us as buyers and not sellers. Gainey is allowed to do such a deal because of our depth in the minors and in the other developmental leagues...small price to pay for a good talent like Kovvy when you can afford to do so.

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03-04-2004, 11:01 AM
  #122
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You gotta understand something about Balej. Hes not that good. He has little hockey sense and smarts, its all speed and a shot. Hes very weak, in his short stint with the Habs he didnt look good at all IMO, he looked like a 2nd liner at best. He reminds so much of Sergei Berezin but even then, I think Berezin had more talent. If we sign Kovalev to a long term deal, this will be a great deal because we have too many prospects who are very similar, Balej just happened to be the lesser talent. Perezhogin, Kastitsyn and Higgins have shown more promise and I don't think Balej can even come to Kovalev's heels in terms of overall play. He doesnt have the skill, he doesnt have the strength, they are similar skaters, he doesnt have Kovalevs shot(althout Jozef has a good one), Hes not even close to being as good a stickhandler. Good deal, better if we resign him.

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03-04-2004, 05:15 PM
  #123
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He reminds so much of Sergei Berezin but even then, I think Berezin had more talent.
Berezin was one of the most talented players in the league though. That's not very fair to say.

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