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What do we do when Randy returns?

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Old
12-01-2008, 05:07 PM
  #76
MountainHawk
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I'll never, ever understand the hate for Jones. Trading him now is sure to get way less than fair value, and he's a significant upgrade over any Flyers defenseman right now not named Timonen or Coburn.

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12-01-2008, 05:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I'll never, ever understand the hate for Jones. Trading him now is sure to get way less than fair value, and he's a significant upgrade over any Flyers defenseman right now not named Timonen or Coburn.
How is Jones a significant upgrade over Vaananen and Carle?

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12-01-2008, 05:24 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
How is Jones a significant upgrade over Vaananen and Carle?
He doesn't make nearly has many brain fart decisions as Carle, and is much superior offensively to Vaananen at similar defensive capabilities.

People forget Jones is a .4-.5 PPG defenseman sometimes.

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12-01-2008, 05:34 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
How is Jones a significant upgrade over Vaananen and Carle?
How is Jones an upgrade over Carle, period?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
He doesn't make nearly has many brain fart decisions as Carle, and is much superior offensively to Vaananen at similar defensive capabilities.

People forget Jones is a .4-.5 PPG defenseman sometimes.
Someone queue Jester

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12-01-2008, 05:36 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
He doesn't make nearly has many brain fart decisions as Carle, and is much superior offensively to Vaananen at similar defensive capabilities.

People forget Jones is a .4-.5 PPG defenseman sometimes.
Jones and Vaananen have completely different roles. Ossi is the only true (good) defensive defenseman on the team and is much more valuable than Jones because of it.

Carle and Jones are very similar. Even if Jones is better offensively than Carle (I don't think he is) and doesn't make as many defensive mistakes (this might be a push, in my opinion), Jones is not a significantly better option. If they're even at this point, Carle is still more valuable due to his potential.

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12-01-2008, 05:39 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
How is Jones an upgrade over Carle, period?
I just picked the part of the quote that I found completely outrageous.

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12-01-2008, 05:39 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Jones and Vaananen have completely different roles. Ossi is the only true (good) defensive defenseman on the team and is much more valuable than Jones because of it.

Carle and Jones are very similar. Even if Jones is better offensively than Carle (I don't think he is) and doesn't make as many defensive mistakes (this might be a push, in my opinion), Jones is not a significantly better option. If they're even at this point, Carle is still more valuable due to his potential.
True, Carle is closer to 24 while Jones is closer to 27 I think. 2-3 years difference.

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12-01-2008, 05:48 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I just picked the part of the quote that I found completely outrageous.
Good point. There's 3 or 4 things I could pick apart in that statement.

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12-01-2008, 05:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Good point. There's 3 or 4 things I could pick apart in that statement.

Carle is on a faster track than Jones.
Carle has the potential to be a lifer here with the Flyers
Carle is COOLER than Jones.

Jones is kind of a dud.

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12-01-2008, 06:21 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
He doesn't make nearly has many brain fart decisions as Carle, and is much superior offensively to Vaananen at similar defensive capabilities.

People forget Jones is a .4-.5 PPG defenseman sometimes.
...Randy Jones?

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Old
12-01-2008, 06:32 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
True, Carle is closer to 24 while Jones is closer to 27 I think. 2-3 years difference.
Good point. People forget that Carle is only entering his 3rd Season. He is not a finished product. He is still developing. As he gains more experience, he'll make less errors. But this kid has real skill, talent, and Hockey sense. He can be a little high risk at times. But give the Coaching staff some time, and that'll be improved.

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12-01-2008, 06:39 PM
  #87
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Good point. People forget that Carle is only entering his 3rd Season. He is not a finished product. He is still developing. As he gains more experience, he'll make less errors. But this kid has real skill, talent, and Hockey sense. He can be a little high risk at times. But give the Coaching staff some time, and that'll be improved.
Just throwing this out there:

NHL games: Randy Jones - 170, Matt Carle - 174. Carle also has double the playoff experience.

While it's true Carle is younger and Jones is closer to the typical age defensemen reach their potential, Jones isn't exactly some experienced NHL veteran and Carle isn't a fresh-faced rookie.

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12-01-2008, 06:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Just throwing this out there:

NHL games: Randy Jones - 170, Matt Carle - 174. Carle also has double the playoff experience.

While it's true Carle is younger and Jones is closer to the typical age defensemen reach their potential, Jones isn't exactly some experienced NHL veteran and Carle isn't a fresh-faced rookie.
Yes, their very equal in experience. But Carle has a much higher upside in my opinion. I like Jones a lot. But with the Cap, he may be the odd man out.

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12-01-2008, 06:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
He doesn't make nearly has many brain fart decisions as Carle, and is much superior offensively to Vaananen at similar defensive capabilities.

People forget Jones is a .4-.5 PPG defenseman sometimes.
Did you really mean to say that?

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12-01-2008, 06:51 PM
  #90
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Yes, their very equal in experience. But Carle has a much higher upside in my opinion. I like Jones a lot. But with the Cap, he may be the odd man out.
I agree, Carle will be the better player when all is said and done. I just think they're both very inexperienced between the ears and do some stupid things out there that need correcting.

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12-01-2008, 06:55 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I agree, Carle will be the better player when all is said and done. I just think they're both very inexperienced between the ears and do some stupid things out there that need correcting.
I agree. Although I wouldn't use the term stupid.

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12-01-2008, 09:28 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
Carle is on a faster track than Jones.
Carle has the potential to be a lifer here with the Flyers
Carle is COOLER than Jones.

Jones is kind of a dud.
That wasn't the 4 I was thinking of so I guess there's more than 4

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12-01-2008, 10:10 PM
  #93
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Someone needs to play defense, you can't have a team of paul coffeys back there and count on winning games 6-5. This is ossi's role, he doesn't try to be cute, plays safe and punishes people. Points aren't everything when it comes to dmen. Nobody says Offense wins championships.

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12-01-2008, 10:28 PM
  #94
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At the end of last year, Jones was playing better than Carle and Vaananen are today.

Carle has a higher "upside" than Jones.

Jones has a higher "upside" than Vaananen (who IS a different class of player, to be sure).

A constant source of amusement for me on this board is the fawning over European defensemen. Any guy with an oddly-spelled last name is automatically good enough for the Flyers second pairing. Bizarre.

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12-01-2008, 11:04 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
At the end of last year, Jones was playing better than Carle and Vaananen are today.

Carle has a higher "upside" than Jones.

Jones has a higher "upside" than Vaananen (who IS a different class of player, to be sure).

A constant source of amusement for me on this board is the fawning over European defensemen. Any guy with an oddly-spelled last name is automatically good enough for the Flyers second pairing. Bizarre.
We enjoy showing off our typing and spelling prowess

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12-01-2008, 11:12 PM
  #96
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I guess absence makes the heart grow fonder

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12-01-2008, 11:20 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
At the end of last year, Jones was playing better than Carle and Vaananen are today.

Carle has a higher "upside" than Jones.

Jones has a higher "upside" than Vaananen (who IS a different class of player, to be sure).

A constant source of amusement for me on this board is the fawning over European defensemen. Any guy with an oddly-spelled last name is automatically good enough for the Flyers second pairing. Bizarre.
you dont have to change your avitar, if/when Jones is traded....

had the Flyers not gone out and traded for Carle, i dont think i'd be so opposed to keeping him; but since we have Carle, now, i hope Jones is the odd man out, because his being traded makes the most sense, to me, given the Flyers current d-core.... given the Flyers current roster, and cap situation.

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12-01-2008, 11:21 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
At the end of last year, Jones was playing better than Carle and Vaananen are today.
Carle's debatable. Vaananen, not a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC
A constant source of amusement for me on this board is the fawning over European defensemen. Any guy with an oddly-spelled last name is automatically good enough for the Flyers second pairing. Bizarre.
I didn't know the 'C' in JXC stood for Cherry.

C'mon, JXC, how can you not heap praise on Kimmo?

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12-02-2008, 12:35 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
We enjoy showing off our typing and spelling prowess
Heh, true. I always have to look them up.

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I guess absence makes the heart grow fonder
Not really. Even the most ardent of Jones Loathers was praising him after the Montreal series last year.

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Originally Posted by smacklby View Post
you dont have to change your avitar, if/when Jones is traded....

had the Flyers not gone out and traded for Carle, i dont think i'd be so opposed to keeping him; but since we have Carle, now, i hope Jones is the odd man out, because his being traded makes the most sense, to me, given the Flyers current d-core.... given the Flyers current roster, and cap situation.
But I doubt they can trade him at this point given salary and lack of play in 2008. And I am pretty sure the Flyers are thinking the following:

= Vaananen looks steady but he's a $1,000,000 free agent signing who played outside the NHL last year. I doubt the Flyers are banking on him being 2nd pairing as they make the Big Run in April and May.

= Parent and Sbisa have nice futures, but are they substantial minutes guys come April and May? Sbisa - not. Parent, on the third pairing yes, but:

= Injuries always happen, and no Big Run happens in April and May with any of Sbisa, Parent, Alberts on a second pairing.

The depth chart is: Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Jones, Vaananen, Alberts, Parent, Kukkonen, Sbisa.

I don't really see the Flyers moving Jones unless he and someone else fetch a pretty nice defenseman in return, and I don't see another team making that move.


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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Carle's debatable. Vaananen, not a chance.



I didn't know the 'C' in JXC stood for Cherry.

C'mon, JXC, how can you not heap praise on Kimmo?
Loving Kimmo! But wasn't there some guy with a funny name the Flyers signed during the summer who folks had penciled in at second pairing, sight unseen?

I haven't noticed Vaananen much, which I guess is good. Maybe it's not a fair comparison. But Jones played very well last year. And let's not forget that Jones has played TWO full seasons of NHL hockey, so by most people's standards, his best is yet to come.

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Old
12-02-2008, 02:07 AM
  #100
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Can we compare to Carle to Mike Rathje?

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