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Old
11-30-2008, 06:58 PM
  #26
Ian
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Originally Posted by thewaitingisover View Post
I agree, this is what it boils down to:

Gomez: 7.3 mil (4 goals, 10 assists, I'm aware he missed 5 games)
Drury: 7 mil (8 goals, 6 assists...from the captain)
Redden: 6.5 mil (2 goals, 8 assists)
Rozsival: 5 mil (2 goals, 12 assists)

Gomez, Drury, Rozsival: 14 points each
Redden: 10

Now lets look around the league at other "elite" players making about the same amount of money (or less), and their production...

Hossa: 7.5 mil (13 goals, 13 assists, 26 points)
Malkin: 3.8 mil this season: 10 goals, 29 assists, 39 points
Semin: 4.6 mil (13 goals, 14 assists, 27 points)
Vanek: 7.1 mil (17 goals, 6 assists, 24 points)
Carter: 5 mil (16 goals, 6 assists, 22 points)
Zetterberg: 2.6 mil (11 goals, 12 assists, 23 points)
Weber: 4.5 mil (10 goals, 12 assists, 22 points, leads the NHL in points for defensemen)

Who leads the Rangers in points? Zherdev, Naslund, and Girardi. 4 mil, 2.5 mil, and 1.5 mil, respectively. Who are the Rangers best two defensemen? Of course, the two who are paid the least amount of money, Staal and Girardi!

I have come to the conclusion (as I'm sure many others have too) that this team is incapable of playing a full game. They win 3 in a row, who cares? They beat Phoenix, great. Tampa and Florida, both in shootouts. I'm not going to watch this team win in shootouts all year. Come playoff time, they're not going to be able to do that. It's apparently so difficult to score more than two goals against Florida, but can be blown out 4-0 two days later by the team who sits one spot out of the bottom of the conference. Lundqvist has played great (he's probably the only one besides Zherdev and maybe Naslund), but pulled two times in six games? That's a Turco problem. I've said it all along, they need one all-star defenseman and one all-star forward. Gomez and Drury can make all the money on earth but they're simply not producing.
Are you seriously comparing the contracts of players that were signed in the FA market (sans Rozy) versus those drafted by a organization (sans Hossa)? Brutal.

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11-30-2008, 07:01 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XParise9X View Post
yeah hate to be a Devils fan posting here but my boyfriend is a hardcore rangers fan and he pointed out to me that Gionta who they said couldn't lay without Gomez is now 7 goals 12 assists in 19 games and our 3rd-4th line enforcer Clarkson who last season couldn't even skate across the ice without messing up or falling now has 5 goals 1 more then the wonderful Gomez.

You guys can keep Gomez You never know he could pick up, but I dont think hes worth 7 mil. I like Drury though, Devils will trade you Langenbrunner He is good if you like taking hooking penalties! It sucks though that your best players like Zherdev and Callahan and i'd even say Dubinsky even though he hasn't been at his best, will make nothing next year since they are saying with the economy the cap may go down. Rangers need to clear some cap space.
Wow he has 1 more goal than a playmaker !11! Great thanks for the update.

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11-30-2008, 07:45 PM
  #28
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I agree with Inferno, and I've had this opinion since the day these two guys signed. In the salary cap era, you have to be more careful about throwing big money at non-elite players.

That Drury is a top 5 paid player in the league among names like Malkin, Crosby, and Lecavalier disgusts me. How Sather can be that fiscally irresponsible is astounding. Drury = Holik.

What's even worse, is that when a guy like Kovalchuk becomes available, the organization won't have the funds to secure him.

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11-30-2008, 07:54 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JLand View Post
Found this on another board. Projected point totals for each player.
uh oh, so what is the TEAMS record?.........what month are we in?

be happy the team has played well overall...........would teams trade for Gomez?......yes, would teams deal for Drury......yes...........their is more than just points it's two way play and leadership

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11-30-2008, 07:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polako View Post
I agree with Inferno, and I've had this opinion since the day these two guys signed. In the salary cap era, you have to be more careful about throwing big money at non-elite players.

That Drury is a top 5 paid player in the league among names like Malkin, Crosby, and Lecavalier disgusts me. How Sather can be that fiscally irresponsible is astounding. Drury = Holik.

What's even worse, is that when a guy like Kovalchuk becomes available, the organization won't have the funds to secure him.
Because Sather is a bad GM. This isn't news.

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Old
11-30-2008, 08:58 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by polako View Post
That Drury is a top 5 paid player in the league among names like Malkin, Crosby, and Lecavalier disgusts me. How Sather can be that fiscally irresponsible is astounding. Drury = Holik.

What's even worse, is that when a guy like Kovalchuk becomes available, the organization won't have the funds to secure him.
No he isn't.

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Old
11-30-2008, 09:08 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XParise9X View Post
yeah hate to be a Devils fan posting here but my boyfriend is a hardcore rangers fan and he pointed out to me that Gionta who they said couldn't lay without Gomez is now 7 goals 12 assists in 19 games and our 3rd-4th line enforcer Clarkson who last season couldn't even skate across the ice without messing up or falling now has 5 goals 1 more then the wonderful Gomez.

You guys can keep Gomez You never know he could pick up, but I dont think hes worth 7 mil. I like Drury though, Devils will trade you Langenbrunner He is good if you like taking hooking penalties! It sucks though that your best players like Zherdev and Callahan and i'd even say Dubinsky even though he hasn't been at his best, will make nothing next year since they are saying with the economy the cap may go down. Rangers need to clear some cap space.
LOLOL as much as ur langdenbrunner proposal is 100% a joke u can keep that cry baby...enjoy kevin weekes, the gift that keeps on giving


TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

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11-30-2008, 09:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ragshockey88 View Post
LOLOL as much as ur langdenbrunner proposal is 100% a joke u can keep that cry baby...enjoy kevin weekes, the gift that keeps on giving


TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
Well the difference is Jamie has already helped deliver a Cup for us.

Not to say Gomez won't, but I remember posting in many places that the Gomez deal was going to be regretted because after a while he'll slip into the background. His easygoing-ness that people love, is also his biggest detriment. His first year in NY was new, it was fresh, his interest was peaked.

Subconciously, he's used to NY now, it's no different than his time was with in NJ. After a while, the games get to become same ole same ole. You see Scotty get less interested in going into the corners, the front of the net, he shoots less and becomes less aggressive. He just needs a guy kicking him in the ass, and who's going to do it? He's the veteran leader now.

For his ENTIRE time here in NJ, he needed a kick in the ass to keep moving. When he was a rookie he had a collective doing it. Stevens, Ftorek, Holik, and Lemieux..guys who wouldn't expect anything less and let you know about it. He then had Burns, and Lou behind the bench (and he had his best offensive year). He felt disrespected here by the money he was offered, and the fact they were on his case about his play/conditioning/whatever.


Now he plays well, usually, in big games because it's an invitation for something bigger. Which is fine. But for 7M, you need that guy every night.

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Old
11-30-2008, 09:23 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JLand View Post
Yes, they do play way too conservative at times, but what else can they do? Nobody on this team can score consistently.

I'm starting to think someone was holding a gun to Sather's head when he signed Gomez & Redden.
ummmm, yea, his name is James Dolan. He could give two ****s about hockey, but he knows who the big names are. Its all about jersey sales and hype.

RANGERS SIGN insert big name FA

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11-30-2008, 09:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I honestly can't believe the adolation of Sjostrom around here..He's a non entity outside of SHootouts and contributes nothing offensively or defensively....He's done nothing offesnively anywhere for about 60-70 games..no matter the linemates.....He has alwasy skated..that's it... but his defensive coverage is poor and is a big part of the reason he and the Betts-Orr-Shjostrom line have been on ice for alot of goals agaisnt lately....He needs to take a seat in the press box for a little while....Ditto for Orr who does not do the one job (being a physical presence) he is capable of..A waste of a roster space when he doesn't do this...
Right on. Quadzilla is all speed with nothing else. Orr is a clown, albeit an improved clown. Redden looks terrible. Naslund has been good. The real culprit here is Sather, who once again went out and spent Dolan's bucks for whomever he could buy. This will be a diaster once the cap stops growing. And I have not even started on the Rozsival contract.

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Old
11-30-2008, 09:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Right on. Quadzilla is all speed with nothing else. Orr is a clown, albeit an improved clown. Redden looks terrible. Naslund has been good. The real culprit here is Sather, who once again went out and spent Dolan's bucks for whomever he could buy. This will be a diaster once the cap stops growing. And I have not even started on the Rozsival contract.
You can't honestly say that Sjostrom has NO offensive talent whatsoever.

What do you expect Orr to be? He should be an enforcer, nothing else.

Rozsival's contract is bad, but not terrible. It is just the wrong contract on the wrong team. Without Redden getting 6.5 or Gomez/Drury getting 7, it isn't as bad as it seems. The length of the contract is though.

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Old
11-30-2008, 09:44 PM
  #37
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yeah but...

Seems to me that Drury, I hate to say it, is a second-half guy. Last year he struggled and then turned it on after the break and ended up with 58 points.

Not sure, but i think Gomez was the same, though he ended with 70 points.

IMO, Jags and Nylander being here, by nature defined the identity of the team in a different way--much more star-centric, less about team point production..they may have been better on their own, but they cast a shadow over the whole team where Dru and Gomez just complement it.

MY point is, I'm willing to give the fabric of this team the benefit of the doubt for now... the crazy line juggling now hasn't hurt the team materially in the standings, and will be tough to defend come playoff time, with everyone knowing each others game... ("Interchangeable flock of forwards" anyone ? )

Will Zherdev, Callahan, and Mara be playing this effectively in February ? I hope so, but if not (and I'm reminded of Mike York's awesome 1st halves before fading out) then the second wave may be ready behind the curtain...

If Drury, Gomez, and Redden (Rosi ?) surge in the second half, we'll be high-fiving deep into the playoffs...

just sayin.

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:04 PM
  #38
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Just though I'd chip in with this.

Rangers are winning, Orr is a great project of Renney and is going to be great for the team.

Rangers are losing, fans say Orr is a waste and a terrible player.

HF at it's finest.

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Old
11-30-2008, 10:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Gomez: 5-5.5
Drury: 4.5-5

Thats what they are worth ON THEIR BEST DAY.
Devils fan here, coming in peace. I just want to say that is what was offered to Gomer by Lou, 5-5.5 mil.

I would love to have either of those players. I do think the prices are a bit high. I do think there are intangibles that you have to consider with both players, both great locker room guys. But i dont think it will necessarily sink in until the offseason. If Sather can manage to sign Dubinsky and Zherdev while keeping most of his key players, than all the power to him. Not sure how that would happen though.

But if you really want someone to produce with Gomer, trade for/sign Gionta. Also seeing that Gio and Callahan are basically family (very close family friends, callahan was best man at Stephen Gionta's wedding, and all three train together in the summer) i think he would be a great fit. Whenever i see threads that have to do with who should be put with Gomer, the first name to pop into my mind is Gio.

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11-30-2008, 11:06 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellOnIce View Post
Well the difference is Jamie has already helped deliver a Cup for us.

Not to say Gomez won't, but I remember posting in many places that the Gomez deal was going to be regretted because after a while he'll slip into the background. His easygoing-ness that people love, is also his biggest detriment. His first year in NY was new, it was fresh, his interest was peaked.

Subconciously, he's used to NY now, it's no different than his time was with in NJ. After a while, the games get to become same ole same ole. You see Scotty get less interested in going into the corners, the front of the net, he shoots less and becomes less aggressive. He just needs a guy kicking him in the ass, and who's going to do it? He's the veteran leader now.

For his ENTIRE time here in NJ, he needed a kick in the ass to keep moving. When he was a rookie he had a collective doing it. Stevens, Ftorek, Holik, and Lemieux..guys who wouldn't expect anything less and let you know about it. He then had Burns, and Lou behind the bench (and he had his best offensive year). He felt disrespected here by the money he was offered, and the fact they were on his case about his play/conditioning/whatever.


Now he plays well, usually, in big games because it's an invitation for something bigger. Which is fine. But for 7M, you need that guy every night.
i guess the devils boards r as empty and boring as their games so u needed to come here

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ragshockey88 View Post
i guess the devils boards r as empty and boring as their games so u needed to come here
Who cares if he does? I've long held that impression of Gomez, one of the many reasons I didn't want the Rangers to sign him in the first place. Most of the many Devil fans I know thought it laughable that Gomez was going to the Rangers. "The joke is on you," they told me. Except there's no "told you so" moment because I agreed with them from the start.

Shouldn't have signed him.

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11-30-2008, 11:53 PM
  #42
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Devils fan here, coming in peace. I just want to say that is what was offered to Gomer by Lou, 5-5.5 mil.

I would love to have either of those players. I do think the prices are a bit high. I do think there are intangibles that you have to consider with both players, both great locker room guys. But i dont think it will necessarily sink in until the offseason. If Sather can manage to sign Dubinsky and Zherdev while keeping most of his key players, than all the power to him. Not sure how that would happen though.

But if you really want someone to produce with Gomer, trade for/sign Gionta. Also seeing that Gio and Callahan are basically family (very close family friends, callahan was best man at Stephen Gionta's wedding, and all three train together in the summer) i think he would be a great fit. Whenever i see threads that have to do with who should be put with Gomer, the first name to pop into my mind is Gio.
Thing is that Gionta and Callahan essentially play the same game. Obviously Gionta is better at it than Callahan at this point, but I don't think he's ever going to score 40 goals again. Pretty confident that that was a one-time thing. Gionta is not the answer. We need a big, strong forward that will drive to the net that can also score. That's why I hope at the deadline we pry Erik Cole out of Edmonton. He's struggling, so he could be had a discount, but that's what he's good at.

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Old
11-30-2008, 11:59 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Thing is that Gionta and Callahan essentially play the same game. Obviously Gionta is better at it than Callahan at this point, but I don't think he's ever going to score 40 goals again. Pretty confident that that was a one-time thing. Gionta is not the answer. We need a big, strong forward that will drive to the net that can also score. That's why I hope at the deadline we pry Erik Cole out of Edmonton. He's struggling, so he could be had a discount, but that's what he's good at.
True. The thing is, Gio and Gomer worked so well together, and ever since they broke up (i know, this is going to sound extremely gay) they havent been the same. And your point about Gio and Callahan being essentially the same player is very right, they play the same game. Thats why i think a Callahan-Gomez-Gionta line would work out. I guess if your looking for a big winger though, Erik Cole would be good.

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Old
12-01-2008, 06:19 AM
  #44
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Our elite forward was Jagr. He wasn't a point a game player last year but even so he gave other teams' best defensemen something to do. A lot of people were glad to see him go. Well--if anyone was worth the money that Gomez and Drury are getting it was Jaromir. Drury and Gomez are both good players but they've never really been elite players. Redden had been slipping in recent years. Roszival has always been a reach as a top pair d-man. So yeah--they're all overpaid. All these arguments have taken place before by the way and it took this long for some to figure out that Drury scoring 37 goals in his free agent to be year doesn't mean he's going to score 37 every year?--even as he heads into his mid-30's?

To be honest this team IMO has overachieved. That is partly because of the coaching. My problem is mostly with the GM and those people helping him make personnel decisionsin the offseason and Renney may have some blame there. We are locking players up long term for money they don't deserve. Games like yesterday's though--they happen--every year. It was a stinker. The Rangers have holes. They need more consistent scoring from more people. They are too small up front. They are not physical enough. I don't see them grinding their way to the cup which is what most teams do.

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12-01-2008, 07:22 AM
  #45
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Chris Drury was, is and always will be the best 3rd line center in the league. He's also as clutch as they come, a top tier penalty killer and a phenomenal leader and captain. I have no idea what that's worth (my guess is below $7 mill lol). Gomez and Redden are the two contracts that are off the charts ridiculous. Gomez is the blue line turnover king (Zherdev continues to to compete for the title). More importantly, Gomez is a 70 point set up man who belongs on the 2nd line. Redden did nothing last year to earn that contract and has been shaky at times in his own zone. I dont think he's been bad at all but he's not worth top tier, #1 d-man money. I almost think we'd be better off with Jovo's ridiculous contract as its much shorter. (3 yrs left?) I think Sather has done a great job in the draft and with signings/trades of our role players. I don't think anyone can complain about Voros and Zherdev. Mara has been our best bang for the buck in years. Naslund has worked out for his money. Of course if the cap goes down (and it very well could) Sather will have put us in a very difficult position. One, if not two, of the 3 big FA's will have to go. At least the contracts are front loaded so the Florida Panthers can take the cap hit without opening the check book.

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12-01-2008, 07:42 AM
  #46
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this must be the millionth time this topic has been discussed.....they are overpaid and that isn't going to change unless re-negotiations of contracts kick back in (which they won't)...get over it and lets move on.

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12-01-2008, 08:01 AM
  #47
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Sather certainly deserves some, if not all of the "blame" (I use that word reluctantly since we are talking about a first place team here). The GM's main problem is overeating at the annual free agent buffet on July the 1st. Gomez, Drury, Redden, and Roszival are the crux of the team's problems...all are overpaid and none are elite. One each during the 2007 and 2008 offseasons would have been sufficient, using the additional capspace to obtain other areas of weakness, specifically scoring wingers.

And somewhere in the middle of this falls poor Tom Renney...is he supposed to make these players elite just because they are paid as such? Hes employed a defense first system because we do not have the firepower to play run and gun with the Pittsburgh's of the NHL. It is whats best for the team as it is currently constructed and the fact he gets criticized so much is undermined by the fact that those complaining usually cant supply realistic solutions.

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12-01-2008, 08:34 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
uh oh, so what is the TEAMS record?.........what month are we in?

be happy the team has played well overall...........would teams trade for Gomez?......yes, would teams deal for Drury......yes...........their is more than just points it's two way play and leadership
There's the problem right there.

The team HASN'T played well overall.

In fact the team has played medicore hockey for most of the season.

take away the 6 shootout wins and we are 11-10-6 (11 regulation wins, 8 reg. losses and 2 OTL = 10 losses, and 6 would be ties)

That to me is a very medicore team. The fact that we have the best goalie in breakaway situations is a plus no doubt and we can thank Butthead Bettman for providing teams like the Rangers the artifical shot at half wins by introducing shootouts to the game.

The bottom line is this team no longer plays to win games. They play not to lose and that's a sad way to approach any game.

But we are in first....blah blah balh

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12-01-2008, 08:44 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Sather certainly deserves some, if not all of the "blame" (I use that word reluctantly since we are talking about a first place team here). The GM's main problem is overeating at the annual free agent buffet on July the 1st. Gomez, Drury, Redden, and Roszival are the crux of the team's problems...all are overpaid and none are elite. One each during the 2007 and 2008 offseasons would have been sufficient, using the additional capspace to obtain other areas of weakness, specifically scoring wingers.

And somewhere in the middle of this falls poor Tom Renney...is he supposed to make these players elite just because they are paid as such? Hes employed a defense first system because we do not have the firepower to play run and gun with the Pittsburgh's of the NHL. It is whats best for the team as it is currently constructed and the fact he gets criticized so much is undermined by the fact that those complaining usually cant supply realistic solutions.
He couldn't construct a run and gun team because it's not his approach. The team was supposed to be a bit more wide open this year and they do have the players to do that. They have a fast team and can pass the puck, but opening up the game would be somewhat shunning the defensive responsibilities the forwards have which Renney will not allow.

No, we do not have the one true and legit sniper that can pot 40 goals, but with the system we do play, even if we had a Gaborik or a Kovalchuk, the system is so stifiling that they would be reduced to 30 goal guys.

We need a coach and a system that can employ a sound defensive scheme while not sucking the offensive life out of the forwards.

I don't see that type of coaching in NY and as long as Renney is here, the team will get NO BETTER.


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12-01-2008, 09:00 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He couldn't construct a run and gun team because it's not his approach. The team was supposed to be a bit more wide open this year and they do have the players to do that. They have a fast team and can pass the puck, but opening up the game would be somewhat shunning the defensive responsibilities the forwards have which Renney will not allow.

No, we do not have the one true and legit sniper that can pot 40 goals, but with the system we do play, even if we had a Gaborik or a Kovalchuk, the system is so stifiling that they would be reduced to 30 goal guys.

We need a coach and a system that can employ a sound defensive scheme while not sucking the offensive life out of the forwards.

I don't see that type of coaching in NY and as long as Renney is here, the team will get NO BETTER.
Then how did Jagr go off for 54 goals and 123 points under Renney if he stifles offensive creativity?

Saying Kovalchuk could come here and not score 40 goals because of Tom Renney is just another example of a Renney basher spouting something off that could never be proved and is probably wrong to begin with.

The fact that this team cant score goals lies in its construction first and foremost.

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