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Old
12-01-2008, 10:42 AM
  #26
BigEyedPhish
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I think it is going to end up a bidding war between us and Toronto (I don't think Montreal has as much to give up as we do I think we have even more to give than Toronto as I can't see them really offering their 1st rounder).

Anyways I think it will come down to who needs Jay-bo more and that probably means us as we are going to have to give up some of our future to get Jay-bo and since Toronto is in full on rebuild mode.. I think we will get him.... hopefully..

If we get Jay Bouwmeester I think our team is going to be quite ****in awesome next year is Auld can keep up his play I think we should try to re-sign him for like 2 million/year it is a gamble yes, but he has been the best goaltender we have had in Ottawa since Hasek and he is still relatively young and could have a breakout year (and Elliot is cheap for the time being)

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12-01-2008, 10:46 AM
  #27
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Also if we got Bouwmeester I can't really think of a team that will be better at moving the puck up the ice in a year or two than us..

Bell
M. Karlsson
Lee
and E. Karlsson are all pretty good puck movers..

one of them will be the odd man out (I think Lee would be moved for Bouwmeester as part of the deal) so that would leave us with..

Phillips - Bouwmeester
Volchenkov - Bell
Karlsson - Karlsson

M. Karlsson is slowly having another breakout year in Binghamton similiar to the one he had in Sweden.

Bell will turn into a steal of a signing as well he has impressed me in Ottawa and has not looked out of place AT ALL.

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12-01-2008, 11:15 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
The biggest thing about Bouwmeester would be his blazing speed up the ice. There was a point in the game against the Isles Saturday when the Sens were hemmed into their zone for about a minute before Alfie finally took it and weaved it out with speed. There's nobody in our top 6 that has the confidence, speed and skill to lead the rush up the ice - and only a couple that can make a real outlet pass.

Bouwmeester gives you both.
Bouwmeester could make up for all the things I miss about Joe Corvo's game, without all the frustrating parts.

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Originally Posted by Sammitch View Post
Anyways I think it will come down to who needs Jay-bo more and that probably means us as we are going to have to give up some of our future to get Jay-bo and since Toronto is in full on rebuild mode.. I think we will get him.... hopefully..
I highly doubt it will happen, but I would jump for joy if it did.


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Originally Posted by Sammitch View Post
Phillips - Bouwmeester
Volchenkov - Bell
Karlsson - Karlsson

M. Karlsson is slowly having another breakout year in Binghamton similiar to the one he had in Sweden.

Bell will turn into a steal of a signing as well he has impressed me in Ottawa and has not looked out of place AT ALL.
I'm happy with Bell, but I'm still not convinced that he's not playing over his head right now. And even if he keeps playing well and sticks with Ottawa, I can't see him as a top-4 defenseman. Besides, what about Picard?

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12-01-2008, 11:43 AM
  #29
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Suffice it to say that, if these posts are any indication, anyone who comes in and wears a Sens uniform as the designated PMD will be picked apart and analyzed to no end. In fact, there is a danger of getting a superstar and the whole organization and fan base looking at him as a saviour.

Analysis aside, the PMD we get would have to log huge minutes or guys like Brendan Bell and Lee would have to earn roles on the back end to move the puck more smoothly IN GENERAL on this club. One PMD will not do it.

Redde, Phillips, Volchenkov, Meszaros, even Chara -- all not media stars and were never called to be in Ottawa. Bouwmeester will need a thick skin, but he is very talented.

I would not turn down Jay Bouwmeester, but I think this team has more problems than just that role, so I would also endorse adeal to get us more than just him.

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12-01-2008, 11:49 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sammitch View Post
I think it is going to end up a bidding war between us and Toronto (I don't think Montreal has as much to give up as we do I think we have even more to give than Toronto as I can't see them really offering their 1st rounder).

Anyways I think it will come down to who needs Jay-bo more and that probably means us as we are going to have to give up some of our future to get Jay-bo and since Toronto is in full on rebuild mode.. I think we will get him.... hopefully..
teams i see interested in Bouw: Florida (obviously), Dallas (lots of salary coming off, zubov is old, will probably sign a smaller contract for 1/2 years, bouw is the perfect replacement for zubov), Ottawa (lots of capspace, 1 real hole to fill (#1 PMD), Toronto (only if they trade kubina and kaberle).

I only see 2 solid teams there: dallas and ottawa. If bouwmeester wants to be competitive, he will chose one of those (ignore dallas' troubles this year, if turco regains form and defence is healthy, they are a very good team). Hopefully bouwmeester is the kind of guy that wants to stay in the East, because then i think we are frontrunners.

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12-01-2008, 12:29 PM
  #31
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I don't think it's possible to over estimate Jacques Martin's bitterness towards the sens. He would make the sens pay deeply for J-Bo. Vermette+Lee+picks may not be enough.

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12-01-2008, 12:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
I don't think it's possible to over estimate Jacques Martin's bitterness towards the sens. He would make the sens pay deeply for J-Bo. Vermette+Lee+picks may not be enough.
I agree. Martin will only use the Sens to drive up the price of JBO. Murray should move along to other options ( a different PMD or someone who can score on the 2nd line ) and take a run at J-Bo in the summer.

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12-01-2008, 01:00 PM
  #33
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I'm personally not sold on bouwmeester. For a guy that is supposed to be a sought after commodity this year, he certainly is not putting up the numbers. 13 points in 23 games is decent, but with the amount of ice he sees including all that PP time, it's not nearly enough. Good players will find ways to score and lead their team, no matter how crappy their linemates/team mates are. To label him as a "franchise Dman" and then pay him the same wages when he is not playing anywhere near such potential would be a huge mistake. For 5 mil I would take a gamble on this guy. For 6-7, no thanks.

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12-01-2008, 02:30 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Speatley View Post
If it is all about ice-time, why dont we get Bryan Allen instead? He plays 50 seconds less a game...


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Originally Posted by The Spanky View Post
As mentioned, this team has below average speed and Jay would definitely help in that department. He is also an excellent PMD and would improve the transition game drastically.
Well, i don't agree with that, outside of Volchenkov, Smith and Heatley, i don't think we have below average skaters. Vermette, Fisher, Donovan, McAmmond, and even Spezza and Phillips are kinda fast. Alfie, Kelly, Winchester, Picard, Kuba are ok... Foligno got to work on his skating but it's normal for a young powerforward.

* Tough, Phillips looks slower this year...


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Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
I don't think it's possible to over estimate Jacques Martin's bitterness towards the sens. He would make the sens pay deeply for J-Bo. Vermette+Lee+picks may not be enough.
Then we say no...

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Old
12-01-2008, 02:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfighter View Post
I'm personally not sold on bouwmeester. For a guy that is supposed to be a sought after commodity this year, he certainly is not putting up the numbers. 13 points in 23 games is decent, but with the amount of ice he sees including all that PP time, it's not nearly enough. Good players will find ways to score and lead their team, no matter how crappy their linemates/team mates are. To label him as a "franchise Dman" and then pay him the same wages when he is not playing anywhere near such potential would be a huge mistake. For 5 mil I would take a gamble on this guy. For 6-7, no thanks.
Thank you. This guy plays 30 minutes a night, yet the impact he has on the game is seemingly minimal. If you're going to pay someone 7.5M, especially on defense, I want someone who makes an impact all the time. Lidstrom, for being quiet, puts up rediculous offensive numbers every year. Bouwmeester puts up decent numbers, but can't seem to get his team over a hump. I have my doubts about him.

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12-01-2008, 02:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Thank you. This guy plays 30 minutes a night, yet the impact he has on the game is seemingly minimal. If you're going to pay someone 7.5M, especially on defense, I want someone who makes an impact all the time. Lidstrom, for being quiet, puts up rediculous offensive numbers every year. Bouwmeester puts up decent numbers, but can't seem to get his team over a hump. I have my doubts about him.
fair enough. But i don't think he's the reason they can't get over the hump.(hello Mike Keenan and Jacques Martin)

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12-01-2008, 04:18 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kanataboy68 View Post
Suffice it to say that, if these posts are any indication, anyone who comes in and wears a Sens uniform as the designated PMD will be picked apart and analyzed to no end. In fact, there is a danger of getting a superstar and the whole organization and fan base looking at him as a saviour.
With Phillips, Volchenkov and Smith on this team now and offensive prospects in the wings... whoever comes in will (and should) be measured almost entirely on their offensive contributions to the team. If we pay a hefty price in terms of player assets and another to sign him to some ungodly $7.5M/yr deal and he puts up 40 point seasons here (while any 2 of Corvo, Meszaros and Kuba could have done that for the same price or less combined)... he'll (and the trade) be crucified and justifiably so.

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Originally Posted by jayjay54 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Thank you. This guy plays 30 minutes a night, yet the impact he has on the game is seemingly minimal. If you're going to pay someone 7.5M, especially on defense, I want someone who makes an impact all the time. Lidstrom, for being quiet, puts up rediculous offensive numbers every year. Bouwmeester puts up decent numbers, but can't seem to get his team over a hump. I have my doubts about him.
fair enough. But i don't think he's the reason they can't get over the hump.(hello Mike Keenan and Jacques Martin)
Jokinen, Horton, Luongo/Vokoun and some fairly established NHL D-depth? That's a heck of a lot more than Jacques had to work with here in his first 4 full seasons (making the playoffs in all 4)... when in most of those seasons he rarely had both of Yashin and Alfredsson on top of their games (or even on the ice in the same games) and had a rotation of Tugnutt and Rhodes in net.

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12-01-2008, 04:36 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
With Phillips, Volchenkov and Smith on this team now and offensive prospects in the wings... whoever comes in will (and should) be measured almost entirely on their offensive contributions to the team. If we pay a hefty price in terms of player assets and another to sign him to some ungodly $7.5M/yr deal and he puts up 40 point seasons here (while any 2 of Corvo, Meszaros and Kuba could have done that for the same price or less combined)... he'll (and the trade) be crucified and justifiably so.



Jokinen, Horton, Luongo/Vokoun and some fairly established NHL D-depth? That's a heck of a lot more than Jacques had to work with here in his first 4 full seasons (making the playoffs in all 4)... when in most of those seasons he rarely had both of Yashin and Alfredsson on top of their games (or even on the ice in the same games) and had a rotation of Tugnutt and Rhodes in net.
the Luongo trade has to go down as one of the worst ever, Martin alienated Jokinen, and this team has stunk long enough to have some top end talent from the draft. Now they will likely lose their best player again(bouwmeester).

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12-01-2008, 04:49 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by jayjay54 View Post
the Luongo trade has to go down as one of the worst ever, Martin alienated Jokinen, and this team has stunk long enough to have some top end talent from the draft. Now they will likely lose their best player again(bouwmeester).
Your point seemed to be that Bouwmeester had an excuse to be a part of a core that has consistently missed the playoffs. He doesn't. That team has enough talent to make it, a coach who has done more with less and if Jay-Bo was half the player people make him out to be... they already would have.

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12-01-2008, 04:58 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Your point seemed to be that Bouwmeester had an excuse to be a part of a core that has consistently missed the playoffs. He doesn't. That team has enough talent to make it, a coach who has done more with less and if Jay-Bo was half the player people make him out to be... they already would have.
That's a pretty huge expectation to put on one player. A talented player has to be in the right situation to make an impact like that. Or he has to be an elite player. I do not think anybody here holds Bouwmeester in the same regards at someone like Ovechkin.

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12-01-2008, 05:00 PM
  #41
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That's a pretty huge expectation to put on one player. A talented player has to be in the right situation to make an impact like that. Or he has to be an elite player. I do not think anybody here holds Bouwmeester in the same regards at someone like Ovechkin.
The pressure is on the core and if the core would have been better, they would have made the playoffs.

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12-01-2008, 05:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Your point seemed to be that Bouwmeester had an excuse to be a part of a core that has consistently missed the playoffs. He doesn't. That team has enough talent to make it, a coach who has done more with less and if Jay-Bo was half the player people make him out to be... they already would have.
I have no problem with you saying that Bouwmeester hasn't doesn't his part in helping this team winning. But my point wasn't to make excuses for J-Bo, it was to point out that florida's management has been a bigger part of the problem. The Luongo trade is the kind of thing that haunts a franchise for years.(imgaine where we would be if we traded spezza for that package of players, and Luongo makes more of an impact than spezza). And i would think it's atleast fair to question the culture there, when you continue to have your top players wanting to leave. And culture is management's job.

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12-01-2008, 05:21 PM
  #43
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Jay-Bo is not the saviour. For every orgasm Pierre "Monster Embarrassment" McGuire has on TV over Jay-Bo, there are facts that point out that this kid is not an out-and-out offensive defenceman - and he likely never will be. His contributions come in bunches and he seems to be a slow starter on the offensive side every year. For Jay-Bo to be a $7 M d-man, he needs consistent offense to go along with his defensive game. I see him as a defensive-defenceman with an offensive upside.

Brian McCabe is already having good offensive numbers in the Florida system, so that cannot be used as an excuse for Bo.

I would love to have him in Ottawa, but I will not sell the farm to get him unless he is guaranteed to sign at a reasonable price ($6.5 M tops).

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12-01-2008, 05:29 PM
  #44
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I have no problem with you saying that Bouwmeester hasn't doesn't his part in helping this team winning. But my point wasn't to make excuses for J-Bo, it was to point out that florida's management has been a bigger part of the problem. The Luongo trade is the kind of thing that haunts a franchise for years.(imgaine where we would be if we traded spezza for that package of players, and Luongo makes more of an impact than spezza). And i would think it's atleast fair to question the culture there, when you continue to have your top players wanting to leave. And culture is management's job.
Set them back how?
Luongo and Krajicek
for
Vokoun and Allen

That's a reasonable on ice trade off. This team should be better than it has been.

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12-01-2008, 05:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Set them back how?
Luongo and Krajicek
for
Vokoun and Allen

That's a reasonable on ice trade off. This team should be better than it has been.
disagree, they are better with Luongo, and you still have to wonder why none of their top guys want to stay. i agree they should be better than they are, i just think it has more to do with the guys running the operation

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12-01-2008, 05:49 PM
  #46
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disagree, they are better with Luongo, and you still have to wonder why none of their top guys want to stay. i agree they should be better than they are, i just think it has more to do with the guys running the operation
They weren't and Allen is quite a bit better than Krajicek.

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12-01-2008, 06:04 PM
  #47
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I think Sens Chirp has it spot on with the need of a PMD, especially a guy like Bouwmeester:

Quote:
What is so frustrating about all this is from day one (start of the off season), Bryan Murray has identified this team's need for a puck moving defenceman and yet here we are into December and the need has still gone unaddressed. Now there's no doubt Murray has been trying to get something done but game in, game out the team's need for a defenceman who can make solid outlets passes becomes increasingly obvious.

While there are other concerns (secondary scoring being an obvious one) I believe that by addressing the transition game with a puck moving D the secondary scoring will improve. This team has next to no transition game right now and this has been a serious drag on some of this team's skilled forwards.

With that said, the Senators continue to make a push for Jay Bouwmeester. I feel he's exactly whats missing from this team right now and if there is a deal to be had Murray needs to either pull the trigger on a deal for J-Bouw or acknowledge that this is a re-building year and start trimming the fat. With Bouwmeester in the line up this is absolutely a playoff team and one that can contend with Eastern Conference elite.

Many of the same names appear to be involved in trade discussions with the Senators potentially looking at getting a top 6 forward in addition to Bouwmeester.

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12-01-2008, 06:21 PM
  #48
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They weren't and Allen is quite a bit better than Krajicek.
disagree, if they had luongo now they are a better team, raise your hand if you would rather have vokoun than luongo

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12-01-2008, 06:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Germz View Post
Bouwmeester could make up for all the things I miss about Joe Corvo's game, without all the frustrating parts.
I was thinking the exact same thing today on the subway, Corvo and Bouwmeester both know how to carry the puck up the ice, something none of the sens D can do right now. Sure Bouwmeester doesn't have amazing point totals right now but he hasn't had a great start to the season and he'll be the first to admit that. Also I think to fully appreciate Bouwmeester's game you need to watch him play, stats don't tell the whole story.

Now I don't expect him to put up Lidstrom type numbers or singlehandly return this franchise to respectability but he's an offensive defencemen that is defensively responsible and is about to enter his prime and that is something that is desperately lacking on the Sens right now. So for the right price and a reasonable contract extension I wouldn't think twice about acquiring him.

Now lets just hope Jacques is willing to play...

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12-01-2008, 06:55 PM
  #50
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disagree, if they had luongo now they are a better team, raise your hand if you would rather have vokoun than luongo
Again, it's Luongo/Krajicek for Vokoun/Allen... and that closes the little gap quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by Eden View Post
I was thinking the exact same thing today on the subway, Corvo and Bouwmeester both know how to carry the puck up the ice, something none of the sens D can do right now. Sure Bouwmeester doesn't have amazing point totals right now but he hasn't had a great start to the season and he'll be the first to admit that. Also I think to fully appreciate Bouwmeester's game you need to watch him play, stats don't tell the whole story.

Now I don't expect him to put up Lidstrom type numbers or singlehandly return this franchise to respectability but he's an offensive defencemen that is defensively responsible and is about to enter his prime and that is something that is desperately lacking on the Sens right now. So for the right price and a reasonable contract extension I wouldn't think twice about acquiring him.

Now lets just hope Jacques is willing to play...
I don't see anything reasonable about the projected costs.
- People are projecting a decent player, a good prospect and a 1st. Which for us might look something like Vermette, Lee and SJ's 1st.
- People are expecting something along the lines of Campbell's contract, which at $7M+ is pretty hefty for D-men who haven't sniffed a Norris Trophy.

For the same salary combined and much less cost in player assets, we could go into next season with Kuba and a guy like Leopold. 2 solid 2-way guys easily capable of putting up close-to or just short of Jay-Bo numbers with a slight downgrade defensively... which we shouldn't really worry about with such a defensive D-corps right now. That's 45 mins of solid puckmoving instead of 25.

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