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Next season: Satan, Sykora, Fedotenko, Gill, Boucher

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Old
12-01-2008, 04:02 PM
  #51
Jacob
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Crosby and Malkin are fine without elite wingers. It'd be nice, and it'd certainly pad their stats, but elite wingers are a luxury that we can do without.

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12-01-2008, 04:06 PM
  #52
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Keep Sykora and Satan, dump the rest, and search free agency for a better fit at LW. As Jacob said, no one elite is needed, but it'd be nice to have a grinder with better hands or a second tier scoring threat capable of similar production to Sykora.

None of those defensemen are all that valuable with the exception maybe of Gill, and he's just going to be older. It doesn't seem like they have too many capable big bodies in the system, but maybe someone will step up by that time. If not, I'd like the team to go after someone with just a little better skating ability.

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12-01-2008, 04:15 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Mark144 View Post
that is a horrendous top 4 at wing, absolutely horrible. Talbot is a grinder, pure and simple. Sykora is garbage, who is good because he leaches off of Malkin. Fine Malkin gets him his 25 goals but by himself he can create nothing. Barely a top line winger. Kennedy? Please, the guy hustles all the time but he doesn't have the hockey sense to play with a Crosby or a Malkin for long stretches at a time. Guy is a perfect role player but would be a horrible player on the top two lines.
Those are some excellent points. I think our best bet winger-wise this offseason would be to sign Hossa, Havlat, and Gaborik. Then we could trade Fedotenko, Eaton, and a first for Kovalchuk. We'll also need to grab Erik Cole in case Gaborik can't stay healthy. Our top 6 might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik

We could probably also swing a trade for Bouwmeester centered around a guy like Jake Muzzin or Ryan Stone. Our full lineup might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik
Cole-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Cooke/Boulton

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Orpik-Whitney
Goligoski-Letang

Except that that last pairing is a bit unproven, so we might want to see if we can get Shea Weber and a first (to replace the one from the Kovalchuk deal) for Goligoski, and run defense pairings like:

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Weber-Whitney
Orpik-Letang

What do you think? Would this lineup suit your fancy more?

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Old
12-01-2008, 04:16 PM
  #54
Muscles4Malkin
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Please no more Satan after this year.

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12-01-2008, 04:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by asab View Post
Those are some excellent points. I think our best bet winger-wise this offseason would be to sign Hossa, Havlat, and Gaborik. Then we could trade Fedotenko, Eaton, and a first for Kovalchuk. We'll also need to grab Erik Cole in case Gaborik can't stay healthy. Our top 6 might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik

We could probably also swing a trade for Bouwmeester centered around a guy like Jake Muzzin or Ryan Stone. Our full lineup might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik
Cole-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Cooke/Boulton

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Orpik-Whitney
Goligoski-Letang

Except that that last pairing is a bit unproven, so we might want to see if we can get Shea Weber and a first (to replace the one from the Kovalchuk deal) for Goligoski, and run defense pairings like:

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Weber-Whitney
Orpik-Letang

What do you think? Would this lineup suit your fancy more?

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Old
12-01-2008, 04:25 PM
  #56
Superstar Shane
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
People also bringing up Gonchar's NTC are being kind of short sighted. There are plenty of good teams in the NHL he could be traded to, having just a good of a chance at a Cup as he does here. Do people really think he believes he is here for the long haul with Shero signing Whitney to a 6 year deal, and having Letang and Goligoski performing so well now? If I were in his shoes, if I weren't in a teams long term plans, I would like to start with a new team ASAP, where I have potential to be there for the rest of my career.
So you think we should trade Gonchar to a cup-contender in order to entice him to waive the no trade clause? I think that's a fantastic idea. Do you suppose Detroit might be willing to give us Franzen or Zetterberg for him? Or maybe Boston would be willing to give up Kessel for him?

No probably not, huh? Perhaps this is because Cup-contenders make trades that will strengthen their team; not trades that will help them in one area and hurt them in another. Rentals (such as what Gonchar will be next year) are traded for prospects and draft picks; not scoring wingers. And before anyone says it, Gonchar won't be traded this year because he's probably not going to be healthy before the trade deadline, and injured players can't be traded.

I'd also like to hear anyone point out a single instance where a player has waived a no-trade clause in order to move from one contender to another. Or does that sort of thing not happen?

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Old
12-01-2008, 04:56 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by King Penguin View Post
Please no more Satan after this year.
Seriously. There is a whole slew of players between "elite wingers" and re-signing Satan that we could look at. Sykora would be iffy in my book. I think we could do better there, too. And Fedotenko is definitely a goner.

I would keep Scuderi, who isn't listed on the original poster's list, and I'd probably see if I could keep Gill at a reduced salary. Scuderi and Gill are two big reasons why we now have a very good PK. Boucher could stay as a No. 7 at a cheap rate if we deal one of the offensive rearguards for winger help.

Gionta, Cammalleri, Cole, Kovalev...I sure as heck hope we will be exploring these possibilities way before we re-up with either the satanic one or the sykky.

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Old
12-01-2008, 04:58 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by asab View Post
So you think we should trade Gonchar to a cup-contender in order to entice him to waive the no trade clause? I think that's a fantastic idea. Do you suppose Detroit might be willing to give us Franzen or Zetterberg for him? Or maybe Boston would be willing to give up Kessel for him?

No probably not, huh? Perhaps this is because Cup-contenders make trades that will strengthen their team; not trades that will help them in one area and hurt them in another. Rentals (such as what Gonchar will be next year) are traded for prospects and draft picks; not scoring wingers. And before anyone says it, Gonchar won't be traded this year because he's probably not going to be healthy before the trade deadline, and injured players can't be traded.

I'd also like to hear anyone point out a single instance where a player has waived a no-trade clause in order to move from one contender to another. Or does that sort of thing not happen?
Injured players CAN be traded, not that I disagree with your assessment of Gonchar. He's not going anywhere.

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Old
12-01-2008, 05:10 PM
  #59
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I'm 100% sure Gonchar will run out his contract with us.

The only "real" way to trade out a 'rental' from a contender to another contender is with three-way trades. I honestly don't see a trade that massive happening.

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Old
12-01-2008, 05:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Crosby and Malkin are fine without elite wingers. It'd be nice, and it'd certainly pad their stats, but elite wingers are a luxury that we can do without.
true we dont need elite wingers. But we do need someone faster than satan/sykora/fedex and are able to put 30 or so goals playing with malkin n Crosby. If we can get 2 wingers like that, we can definately be a cup contender. With the wingers we have rite now, i just dont see how we can beat a top team in the west . lets hope shero makes a move at the deadline

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12-01-2008, 05:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by asab View Post
Those are some excellent points. I think our best bet winger-wise this offseason would be to sign Hossa, Havlat, and Gaborik. Then we could trade Fedotenko, Eaton, and a first for Kovalchuk. We'll also need to grab Erik Cole in case Gaborik can't stay healthy. Our top 6 might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik

We could probably also swing a trade for Bouwmeester centered around a guy like Jake Muzzin or Ryan Stone. Our full lineup might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik
Cole-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Cooke/Boulton

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Orpik-Whitney
Goligoski-Letang

Except that that last pairing is a bit unproven, so we might want to see if we can get Shea Weber and a first (to replace the one from the Kovalchuk deal) for Goligoski, and run defense pairings like:

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Weber-Whitney
Orpik-Letang

What do you think? Would this lineup suit your fancy more?
I would be happy for to trade for a player, say Keith Tkachuk or Bill Guerin, this year and then look to acquire a solid winger in the offseason and maybe keep a Sykora or Satan (whichever one comes cheaper)


The current group of wingers we have now is absolutely horrid. Hopefully solve one this need through the draft so we have nice cheap good wingers available in two to three years when things are tight when everyones bonus comes in. But to say that we are not bottom 5 in the league in terms of winger quality is laughable.

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12-01-2008, 05:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by harmonica View Post
I'm 100% sure Gonchar will run out his contract with us.

The only "real" way to trade out a 'rental' from a contender to another contender is with three-way trades. I honestly don't see a trade that massive happening.
I'll take that a step further, Gonchar will finish his NHL career in Pittsburgh. There is seriously no one that would give us equal value in a trade, and signing him so a a 3 year extension for like 4M per seems to be extremely reasonable and fair.

Guys that play Gonchars style can seemingly play forever, his game is all about positioning and so will be able to compensate when his legs do finally start to escape him. As of last year and this training camp Gonchar is still in the cream of the East's defensemen. Makes zero sense to trade him unless you know absolutely that he is not going to resign here.

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Old
12-01-2008, 05:48 PM
  #63
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A real Shot in the Dark here but, to replace Gill, Scuderi and Boucher.... Sergei Zubov? FA next year good right handed shot. Get him for a one or two year deal?

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12-01-2008, 05:51 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark144 View Post
A real Shot in the Dark here but, to replace Gill, Scuderi and Boucher.... Sergei Zubov? FA next year good right handed shot. Get him for a one or two year deal?
Why do we need to replace those 3? We have 6 NHL caliber dmen under contract for next year...

...a team with our salary cap troubles cant really afford to have a 2m 7th dman. If injuries happen, we can trade for a Boucher type of guy...but im completely fine with going into next year with the 6 NHL dman we have under contract. Rather find a winger for Sid then upgrade our #6 and #7 dman.

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Old
12-01-2008, 06:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by asab View Post
So you think we should trade Gonchar to a cup-contender in order to entice him to waive the no trade clause? I think that's a fantastic idea. Do you suppose Detroit might be willing to give us Franzen or Zetterberg for him? Or maybe Boston would be willing to give up Kessel for him?

No probably not, huh? Perhaps this is because Cup-contenders make trades that will strengthen their team; not trades that will help them in one area and hurt them in another. Rentals (such as what Gonchar will be next year) are traded for prospects and draft picks; not scoring wingers. And before anyone says it, Gonchar won't be traded this year because he's probably not going to be healthy before the trade deadline, and injured players can't be traded.

I'd also like to hear anyone point out a single instance where a player has waived a no-trade clause in order to move from one contender to another. Or does that sort of thing not happen?
Cup contenders will make any trade that they have to so that they will win now. Gonchar would be a pivotal peice of a team due to the fact that he is a top pairing defenseman who is also an elite powerplay quarterback. Unless this team plans on seperating themselves from Staal, they probably aren't returning a top 6 winger. According to you, if Gonchar can't return that much, surely Whitney won't be able to.

Teams are willing to give up quite a bit for a player like Gonchar. Don't believe me, look at the peices the San Jose Sharks have given up the past year for 2 offensive defensemen who aren't on Gonchar's level. Sure they are prospects, for the most part, but Steve Bernier is a legit top 6 winger prospect, Ty Wishart is a legit top pairing prospect, Carle is a good offensive defenseman, along with two 1st round picks.

So no, Gonchar might not return a top 6 winger, but theres a good possibility he could return a near NHL ready winger prospect that will be a very good one in the near future. And like I said before, if Shero were to tell him he isn't in their plans after his contract runs out, he very well may be open to the idea of moving to another contender where he could potentially sign what would most likely amount to his last professional contract.


Last edited by JTG: 12-01-2008 at 06:12 PM.
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Old
12-01-2008, 06:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Cup contenders will make any trade that they have to so that they will win now. Gonchar would be a pivotal peice of a team due to the fact that he is a top pairing defenseman who is also an elite powerplay quarterback. Unless this team plans on seperating themselves from Staal, they probably aren't returning a top 6 winger. According to you, if Gonchar can't return that much, surely Whitney won't be able to.

Teams are willing to give up quite a bit for a player like Gonchar. Don't believe me, look at the peices the San Jose Sharks have given up the past year for 2 offensive defensemen who aren't on Gonchar's level. Sure they are prospects, for the most part, but Steve Bernier is a legit top 6 winger prospect, Ty Wishart is a legit top pairing prospect, Carle is a good offensive defenseman, along with two 1st round picks.

So no, Gonchar might not return a top 6 winger, but theres a good possibility he could return a near NHL ready winger prospect that will be a very good one in the near future. And like I said before, if Shero were to tell him he isn't in their plans after his contract runs out, he very well may be open to the idea of moving to another contender where he could potentially sign what would most likely amount to his last professional contract.
Gonchar is our best defensemen. This team is not in the position to trade Norris cup trophy finalists for picks/prospects, its stupid. We are 14-6-3 and we are missing Fleury, Gonchar, Whitney, and Boucher which is over 15million in cap.

It seems we lack on the Wing and Power Play. Gonchar has been running our PP for the last few years and doing an excellent job. A right handed shot or someone to stand in front of the net would be great for our PP and great for our overall team.

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Old
12-01-2008, 06:37 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mark144 View Post
A real Shot in the Dark here but, to replace Gill, Scuderi and Boucher.... Sergei Zubov? FA next year good right handed shot. Get him for a one or two year deal?
I don't see it being a good fit. He's a pretty big injury concern at this point, and this team has enough offensive defensemen, especially if Gonchar sticks around for a while. I'd be surprised if Zubov doesn't finish his career as a Star, maybe even after this season. Pure speculation on that last part though.

If Gill departs, the biggest concern on the blueline is a big body capable of clearing the crease.

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12-01-2008, 06:45 PM
  #68
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I honestly wouldn't be at all miffed if they weren't able to retain any of those players. Provided that Shero continues to fill any gaps judiciously.

As many have already said... Sykora at a decent pricetag is likely the best choice of the lot. Also, I think we need to start understanding that the Penguins simply aren't going to be in a position to sign your Gaboriks, Kovalchuks or maybe even Havlats (not that I'd want him) without making some major changes to the lineup that might just end up being more of a detriment than anything.

Crosby and Malkin will be just fine with decent complimentary players. It's all a matter of having a savvy GM to find the best fits on a year to year basis. I think Shero is capable of doing that.

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Old
12-01-2008, 07:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by asab View Post
Those are some excellent points. I think our best bet winger-wise this offseason would be to sign Hossa, Havlat, and Gaborik. Then we could trade Fedotenko, Eaton, and a first for Kovalchuk. We'll also need to grab Erik Cole in case Gaborik can't stay healthy. Our top 6 might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik

We could probably also swing a trade for Bouwmeester centered around a guy like Jake Muzzin or Ryan Stone. Our full lineup might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik
Cole-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Cooke/Boulton

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Orpik-Whitney
Goligoski-Letang

Except that that last pairing is a bit unproven, so we might want to see if we can get Shea Weber and a first (to replace the one from the Kovalchuk deal) for Goligoski, and run defense pairings like:

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Weber-Whitney
Orpik-Letang

What do you think? Would this lineup suit your fancy more?
I almost thought you were serious for a moment there.

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12-01-2008, 07:09 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by asab View Post
Those are some excellent points. I think our best bet winger-wise this offseason would be to sign Hossa, Havlat, and Gaborik. Then we could trade Fedotenko, Eaton, and a first for Kovalchuk. We'll also need to grab Erik Cole in case Gaborik can't stay healthy. Our top 6 might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik

We could probably also swing a trade for Bouwmeester centered around a guy like Jake Muzzin or Ryan Stone. Our full lineup might look something like this:

Kovalchuk-Crosby-Hossa
Havlat-Malkin-Gaborik
Cole-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Cooke/Boulton

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Orpik-Whitney
Goligoski-Letang

Except that that last pairing is a bit unproven, so we might want to see if we can get Shea Weber and a first (to replace the one from the Kovalchuk deal) for Goligoski, and run defense pairings like:

Gonchar-Bouwmeester
Weber-Whitney
Orpik-Letang

What do you think? Would this lineup suit your fancy more?
So exactly how do we get Boulton?

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Old
12-01-2008, 07:28 PM
  #71
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I dont see why everyone thinks Gill is so essential for this team. They'll use terms like "big body to clear the crease" but I rarely ever see him actually use his big body to do so. He doesnt block that many shots, and he doesnt seem to hit much either. He is very slow and gets turned into a pylon really easy. He has zero offensive awareness and panics with the puck and throws it into the corner just to give it back to the other team whenever he touches the puck.

If he used his size more and sacrificed the body more and perhaps tried to get a low shot on goal from the point off, I would be a little more excited about him but I just don't see the craze about him.

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Old
12-01-2008, 07:34 PM
  #72
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Trade Staal to Chicago for Havlat and Brouwer

wait salaries dont work

Staal for Brouwer, Skille and more.

yay

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Old
12-01-2008, 07:36 PM
  #73
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I don't see it being a good fit. He's a pretty big injury concern at this point, and this team has enough offensive defensemen, especially if Gonchar sticks around for a while. I'd be surprised if Zubov doesn't finish his career as a Star, maybe even after this season. Pure speculation on that last part though.

If Gill departs, the biggest concern on the blueline is a big body capable of clearing the crease.
Zubov isnt just an "offensive defenseman" he is one of the best blueliners in the game when healthy. As for health, only thing that matters is games in may/june.

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12-01-2008, 07:45 PM
  #74
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Zubov's health is starting to leave him. Acquiring him now would be a mistake imo.

As for Gill, he's definitely a useful role player. I would like to keep him if he would accept a slight pay cut.

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Old
12-01-2008, 08:01 PM
  #75
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Gonchar is our best defensemen. This team is not in the position to trade Norris cup trophy finalists for picks/prospects, its stupid. We are 14-6-3 and we are missing Fleury, Gonchar, Whitney, and Boucher which is over 15million in cap.

It seems we lack on the Wing and Power Play. Gonchar has been running our PP for the last few years and doing an excellent job. A right handed shot or someone to stand in front of the net would be great for our PP and great for our overall team.
Kovalchuk right?

Norris Cup Trophy?

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