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DeBoer-"It's Anderson's Job"

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12-17-2008, 07:14 PM
  #176
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We just need to keep Vokoun fresh, that's all it is. We have only 2 games in 10 days. You can't let Vokoun sit out that long. Thankfully he was still sharp against Calgary, but you don't want to push your luck.

I would have started Tomas against the Avs, but I guess it isn't that big of a deal, as long as PDB explains to Andy that Sunday wasn't his fault.

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12-17-2008, 07:59 PM
  #177
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We just need to keep Vokoun fresh, that's all it is. We have only 2 games in 10 days. You can't let Vokoun sit out that long. Thankfully he was still sharp against Calgary, but you don't want to push your luck.

I would have started Tomas against the Avs, but I guess it isn't that big of a deal, as long as PDB explains to Andy that Sunday wasn't his fault.
To an extent, it was his fault. He didn't have a good game. Why does the coach have to mollycoddle Andy? I'd hope he's not that emotional about the whole thing.

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12-17-2008, 08:51 PM
  #178
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To an extent, it was his fault. He didn't have a good game. Why does the coach have to mollycoddle Andy? I'd hope he's not that emotional about the whole thing.
heh... what'd he say the other night? something about not being an emotional guy (in reference to a question about how vokoun was doing "emotionally" with the demotion)?

i don't think he's coddling andy. i agree with mb that it wasn't his fault. maybe he was off his angle on the first goal (should hordichuk be beating you from out there?) but there were mitigating circumstances. one puck in off the a terrible turnover beside the net, one off a skate and in, one batted out of the air and in. i mean, c'mon. maybe he coulda been more aggressive and attacked the breakaway but that loss wasn't his fault. did he stand on his head? no. not going to put that one on andy, though.

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12-18-2008, 02:05 AM
  #179
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If it weren't for Hossa's goal, I'd agree with you, but that's two fluke goals scored on him because he wasn't paying attention to the puck in the corner. Yeah, his man had the puck, but he was still be pressured.

And with the breakaway, I'd have rather seen him get beaten five-hole with his blocker high than top shelf with his blocker on the ice.

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12-18-2008, 08:58 AM
  #180
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heh... what'd he say the other night? something about not being an emotional guy (in reference to a question about how vokoun was doing "emotionally" with the demotion)?

i don't think he's coddling andy. i agree with mb that it wasn't his fault. maybe he was off his angle on the first goal (should hordichuk be beating you from out there?) but there were mitigating circumstances. one puck in off the a terrible turnover beside the net, one off a skate and in, one batted out of the air and in. i mean, c'mon. maybe he coulda been more aggressive and attacked the breakaway but that loss wasn't his fault. did he stand on his head? no. not going to put that one on andy, though.
heh... I didn't say he was coddling him. I merely asked why PDB would have to take Andy aside to tell him Sunday wasn't his fault, and in doing so I'd think Deboer would be coddling him.

I agree that a few of the goals would have been tough saves, but for this team to win, the goalie, whoever he might be, has to have a good game, and I wouldn't call Sunday's performance by Anderson a good game. So, as I originally said, to an extent it was Andy's fault.

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12-18-2008, 09:44 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by RoadDoggFL View Post
If it weren't for Hossa's goal, I'd agree with you, but that's two fluke goals scored on him because he wasn't paying attention to the puck in the corner. Yeah, his man had the puck, but he was still be pressured.

And with the breakaway, I'd have rather seen him get beaten five-hole with his blocker high than top shelf with his blocker on the ice.
hossa's goal? hordichuk you mean? i can see how you get those two confused.

neither of us are (pro) goalies so criticizing how he played the breakaway is a bit much. he might have been playing a tendency that was in the scouting report or that groulx told him in a pregame meeting. you just don't know. the puck beside the net that skrats coughed up was not a high pressure play. maybe you see that type of thing once every couple of years. yes, andy maybe should've been a bit more vigilant but it was an egregious error. we'll forgive skrats, though since he's had such a fantastic season so far.

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12-18-2008, 09:45 AM
  #182
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heh... I didn't say he was coddling him. I merely asked why PDB would have to take Andy aside to tell him Sunday wasn't his fault, and in doing so I'd think Deboer would be coddling him.

I agree that a few of the goals would have been tough saves, but for this team to win, the goalie, whoever he might be, has to have a good game, and I wouldn't call Sunday's performance by Anderson a good game. So, as I originally said, to an extent it was Andy's fault.
yeah, i agree with you on that.

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12-18-2008, 09:54 AM
  #183
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hossa's goal? hordichuk you mean? i can see how you get those two confused.

neither of us are (pro) goalies so criticizing how he played the breakaway is a bit much. he might have been playing a tendency that was in the scouting report or that groulx told him in a pregame meeting. you just don't know. the puck beside the net that skrats coughed up was not a high pressure play. maybe you see that type of thing once every couple of years. yes, andy maybe should've been a bit more vigilant but it was an egregious error. we'll forgive skrats, though since he's had such a fantastic season so far.
Not to drag it out too much, but I think breakaways/shootouts are the one area where Anderson can be a little weak.

There's a 1st for everything... Hossa, um, errhh, I mean Hordichuk.

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12-18-2008, 05:24 PM
  #184
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To an extent, it was his fault. He didn't have a good game. Why does the coach have to mollycoddle Andy? I'd hope he's not that emotional about the whole thing.
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. As Zero said, maybe he shouldn't have been beaten by Hordy from that far out and on that angle, but he never should have been put in that position to begin with. You can go on and on and say, well the goalie still has to make the save no matter what the circumstance, but I'm just going to chalk that one up as not being Andy's fault. Had that been a 2-1 off the rush, and Hordy had beat him from there on that angle, then yes I'd pin that on Andy.

The rest of the goals he really didn't have much chance on. The 2nd goal was all Skrastins, you just can't do what he did. Maybe Andy should have been paying more attention, but in that case you kind of trust your d-man not to make such a stupid play. He was already almost behind the net and Andy's head was starting to turn the other way. Could he have followed the puck better? Yeah, but again, that was just a major league screwup by Skrastins.

I don't really consider DeBoer simply communicating with one of his players 'coddling'. He can't just reassure Andy that Sunday wasn't his fault, if that's what he thinks? That coddling now? Really? Is this Keenan or DeBoer?

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12-18-2008, 05:58 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I don't really consider DeBoer simply communicating with one of his players 'coddling'. He can't just reassure Andy that Sunday wasn't his fault, if that's what he thinks? That coddling now? Really? Is this Keenan or DeBoer?
It is if talking to Tivo about Andy taking the starting position is...

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12-18-2008, 09:53 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. As Zero said, maybe he shouldn't have been beaten by Hordy from that far out and on that angle, but he never should have been put in that position to begin with. You can go on and on and say, well the goalie still has to make the save no matter what the circumstance, but I'm just going to chalk that one up as not being Andy's fault. Had that been a 2-1 off the rush, and Hordy had beat him from there on that angle, then yes I'd pin that on Andy.

The rest of the goals he really didn't have much chance on. The 2nd goal was all Skrastins, you just can't do what he did. Maybe Andy should have been paying more attention, but in that case you kind of trust your d-man not to make such a stupid play. He was already almost behind the net and Andy's head was starting to turn the other way. Could he have followed the puck better? Yeah, but again, that was just a major league screwup by Skrastins.

I don't really consider DeBoer simply communicating with one of his players 'coddling'. He can't just reassure Andy that Sunday wasn't his fault, if that's what he thinks? That coddling now? Really? Is this Keenan or DeBoer?
Yep, I consider it coddling. It doesn't need to be said. Andy is a pro, and I doubt he needs it. As for the blame thing, I'm not blaming him entirely. You can see it your way, but, as I've already said twice, I don't think the cats can win too many games when a goalie has a save percentage lower than 85. Thanks for the pointless questions though, they really don't add any weight to the argument.

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12-19-2008, 09:14 AM
  #187
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Yep, I consider it coddling. It doesn't need to be said. Andy is a pro, and I doubt he needs it. As for the blame thing, I'm not blaming him entirely. You can see it your way, but, as I've already said twice, I don't think the cats can win too many games when a goalie has a save percentage lower than 85. Thanks for the pointless questions though, they really don't add any weight to the argument.
i think PDB has said numerous times that this team needs A games from its skaters *and* goalies every night. he's come out and given andy a bit of a hard time when he hasn't made the big saves. i understand what you're saying but i think it was fine either way - he's trying to keep the confidence of BOTH goaltenders high in a situation where there's a lot of uncertainty and if he feels that's the thing that needed to be said given his closeness to the situation, i'll go with his gut on this.

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12-19-2008, 09:29 AM
  #188
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i think PDB has said numerous times that this team needs A games from its skaters *and* goalies every night. he's come out and given andy a bit of a hard time when he hasn't made the big saves. i understand what you're saying but i think it was fine either way - he's trying to keep the confidence of BOTH goaltenders high in a situation where there's a lot of uncertainty and if he feels that's the thing that needed to be said given his closeness to the situation, i'll go with his gut on this.
Did Deboer actually do such a thing? I don't know really. I was just responding to a post that PDB should tell Andy it wasn't his fault. I think it can be good for a goalie to take a loss upon himself, once in a while, and PDB telling him it wasn't his fault isn't necessary. Everybody knows Anderson is having a good/great year. I think it's pretty safe to assume, Andy knows he needed to have a better game for the team to win. The individual goals can always be argued, but like you said, this team needs the goalies to bring their A game, or make those difficult saves.

While last night, Vokoun would like to have that Corvo goal back; I'm sure he would have rather played it more calmly and not bit too hard on where he thought the puck was originally going. However, I'm sure Vokoun and the team know it is pretty tough to win scoring one goal and getting so few shots.

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12-19-2008, 11:42 AM
  #189
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While last night, Vokoun would like to have that Corvo goal back; I'm sure he would have rather played it more calmly and not bit too hard on where he thought the puck was originally going.
Maybe he would have rather played it more calmly like you said...but on the other hand, that's the way he plays. He's going to do this kind of play again.

Every goalies can let soft goal goes in here and there, It happens

But that Corvo goal yesterday...it can only happen when Vokoun is in the net.

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12-19-2008, 12:00 PM
  #190
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I don't think that Vokoun would like to have that Crovo goal back. It's not like Vokoun got beat by a soft goal. He got beat because he made a stupid play.

Every goalies can let soft goal goes in here and there, It happens

But that Corvo goal yesterday...it can only happen when Vokoun is in the net
that's just not true at all. goalies *have* to challenge shooters to reduce the amount of net they have to shoot at. in doing so, they depend on the defenders in front of them to prevent shooters from a) passing cross-ice quickly or b) skating cross-ice quickly in a manner that leaves them hanging out to dry. this a is fundamental aspect of playing goal. what happened last night was that booth went to retrieve his stick instead of protecting the slot. that opening forced campbell to move over to protect the middle but he failed - he allowed corvo to move right through him. watch the replay - vokoun had a D and one carolina player off the left post and with campbell moving over, the right play was to challenge the shooter. campbell HAD to prevent corvo from getting to the middle as vokoun had him from the slot out. so, first i'd say booth should have left his stick alone and protected the middle but campbell, who correct realized he had to slide over and help out, failed to do his job. was vokoun a little to aggressive or off his angle? hard to tell but it really doesn't matter. the series of breakdowns that ended with campbell's failure to prevent corvo from getting to the slot is what caused the goal. even if he was less aggressive, that type of quick move to the slot would have still left him vulnerable.

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12-19-2008, 06:00 PM
  #191
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Yep, I consider it coddling. It doesn't need to be said. Andy is a pro, and I doubt he needs it. As for the blame thing, I'm not blaming him entirely. You can see it your way, but, as I've already said twice, I don't think the cats can win too many games when a goalie has a save percentage lower than 85. Thanks for the pointless questions though, they really don't add any weight to the argument.
LOL. Ok, so you don't agree with my opinion, so now my questions are pointless? Great, nice talking to you.

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12-19-2008, 07:18 PM
  #192
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LOL. Ok, so you don't agree with my opinion, so now my questions are pointless? Great, nice talking to you.
I meant they were extremist, taking the situation to levels I wasn't going with it. Much like your "great, nice talking to you" comment. They're pungent with over the top jingoism. "That coddling now? Really? Is this Keenan or DeBoer?" What is the point of such questions really? Do they further the debate?

To suggest that any coach who doesn't feel the need to tell a player a loss wasn't his fault, is a meanie like Keenan is more than a bit much.

Sorry if you took it the wrong way there. I apologize for calling them pointless without further stating the case as to why I thought they were so.

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12-20-2008, 09:11 AM
  #193
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I meant they were extremist, taking the situation to levels I wasn't going with it. Much like your "great, nice talking to you" comment. They're pungent with over the top jingoism. "That coddling now? Really? Is this Keenan or DeBoer?" What is the point of such questions really? Do they further the debate?

To suggest that any coach who doesn't feel the need to tell a player a loss wasn't his fault, is a meanie like Keenan is more than a bit much.

Sorry if you took it the wrong way there. I apologize for calling them pointless without further stating the case as to why I thought they were so.
I only asked such questions because I thought your stance was equally extremist. I don't think that any coach who doesn't feel the need to tell a player a loss wasn't his fault is just like Keenan, but I also don't feel any coach who does is coddling, either. It wouldn't be a big deal if DeBoer just tapped Andy on the shoulder and said," Hey Andy, we're gonna go with Tomas on Thursday, keep your head up though, the loss Sunday can't be pinned squarely on your shoulders. Keep working hard." That's not coddling. And just because DeBoer didn't talk to Vokoun about riding Andy while he was hot, doesn't mean he can't talk to Andy in this case. If anything, it should be more self-explanatory to Vokoun that the coach would ride the hot goalie, but even so I don't think the two instances have to be interconnected.

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