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Should the Flyers retire #27?

View Poll Results: What to do with the #27?
Leave the number unretired and unrestricted. 23 35.38%
Don't retire but restrict. 5 7.69%
Retire for Reggie Leach. 1 1.54%
Retire for Ron Hextall. 19 29.23%
Retire for both. 17 26.15%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-06-2008, 09:17 AM
  #1
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Should the Flyers retire #27?

Retiring a number is something that should be well thought out by a sports club, not only because there is a finite amount of numbers that can be worn. It's a distinct honor as the player is recognized as a great talent, successful player and essential figure in the history of the club.

The Flyers so far have retired only four numbers:

  
#1 for goaltender Bernie Parent#4 for defenseman Barry Ashbee
#7 for left wing Bill Barber#16 for center Bobby Clarke

All four of which were members of the Broad Street Bullies which brought two consecutive Stanley Cups to the city of Philadelphia, even though Ashbee retired and became an assistant coach for the second one.

Clarke and Barber played together on the famous LCB-line which was the Flyers top line and a top line in hockey at the time. Of course, the burning question arises, why is the L here not retired.

The L of course for Reggie Leach and the question just becomes even more burning when one looks at Leach's personal statistics and awards he won while he played for the Flyers.


Leach has earned 306 goals and a total of 514 points in 606 games with the Flyers. He added 47 goals and 69 points in 91 playoff games. He lead the Flyers in goals a total of 4 season and scored 8 hat tricks for them and also played two 50 goal season for them.

Reggie Leach has also won a Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP and is the only Flyer to ever win the NHL goal scoring title (which would now be the Maurice "Rocket" Richard Trophy), both during the 1975/76 season. His goal scoring prowess had also earned him the nickname "The Riverton Rifle".


So why is the #27 not retired. His tenure with the club and his role on the LCB line and in the Stanley Cup titles would certainly warrant it. A timeline is perhaps the answer to that. Clarke's number was almost immediately retired after he retired from hockey in 1984. Barber's number was honored only later in 1990. However, by that time, another great player had emerged also wearing the 27.



Ron Hextall spent almost the entirety of his NHL career in Philadelphia and earned 240 wins and numerous awards with the team. He won a Vezina Award and Conn Smythe Trophy as a rookie when the Flyers challenged the Oilers for the Cup in 1987 and he stood again between the pipes when the Flyers won another Conference championship in 1997.

Hextall will also be remembered as one of the most aggressive goaltenders. He is still leading the league as the goaltender with the most penalty minutes in a season. He also had an unprecedented feat when he became the first goaltender to actually score a goal on an empty net on December 8th 1987. He repeated this in the 1989 playoffs.

Hextall is still one of the most popular players in Philadelphia, even after his retirement.


Soo, what to do with the #27. Both players certainly would be candidates for a retired number. Both are members of the Flyers Hall of Fame. On the other hand, the number hasn't been treated any different from any other number the club has available with the exception for the ones mentioned above and the #31 which is restricted to honor the memory of Pelle Lindbergh. It has already been worn in an official game this year by Steve Downie.

I for my part would love to see a double retired number if this would allow it. I believe two banners should be raised and the number should be retired for both. But this isn't really about what I think but what you think.


There are a few possible alternatives what to do:
Leave the number unretired and unrestricted.
Don't retire the number but make it restricted so no player will be allowed to wear it again.
Retire the number for Reggie Leach.
Retire the number for Ron Hextall.
Retire the number for both.

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Old
12-06-2008, 09:21 AM
  #2
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They should retire it for Steve Downie.

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Old
12-06-2008, 09:23 AM
  #3
GKJ
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It should be retired for Ron Hextall.

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12-06-2008, 10:10 AM
  #4
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Don't retire it, but don't issue it to anyone anymore. I never felt Hextall was an elite goalie

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12-06-2008, 10:32 AM
  #5
GKJ
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It's not about being elite. Not everyone has their number retired is elite.

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12-06-2008, 10:44 AM
  #6
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No, it's a good thing that it's very hard to get your number retired here.

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Old
12-06-2008, 10:45 AM
  #7
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I think 31 Should come before any 27 is retired.

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12-06-2008, 10:56 AM
  #8
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I believe the next person to have their jersey retired here will be mike richards when he bring three cups to the flyers. 09/10, 11/12, 14/15

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12-06-2008, 10:57 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, it's a good thing that it's very hard to get your number retired here.
I agree completely. I liked Hexty and he was always one of my favorite players but this is something that should be reseved for exceptional players or circumatances. Barry Ashbee's # being retired was simply because his was a tradgic case when our franchise was still in it's infancy. If it were to happen today his wouldn't be retired. 31 is unofficially retired and that is how it should be. If we are going to retire "good Flyers soldiers" like Hexty then we'd have to retire guys like Mark Howe and Eric Desjardins among others. At best Hextall is on the bubble but if we open it up to him we'd be retiring 2-3 numbers every decade. That's too many. Let him be in the Flyers hall of fame and save the # retiring for guys that are in or SHOULD be in the HHOF. Ashbee is the one Flyers exception. That won't happen again.

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12-06-2008, 11:02 AM
  #10
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I've been down the number retirement road before, and I came to accept being able to watch most of the other teams do it the right way.

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Old
12-06-2008, 11:21 AM
  #11
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I wish in my heart I could say that yes, they should retire it.

But I dont think they should or will retire anybody's number now unless they bring home the Cup.

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12-06-2008, 11:32 AM
  #12
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No, I love Hextall and Leach as much as the next guy. But there are too many numbers being retired, and I honestly believe that there should be a certain line one must cross in order to get the distinction. Parent did it, Clarkie did it, Ashbee and Barber did it for me as well, but NOBODY else comes close to deserving it so far. If Eric had stuck around for his whole career here and didn't have the health issues he likely would have been next in line. I am holding out hope some of the guys on the current team can make it happen, but I honestly don't want another number retired until it is EARNED

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12-06-2008, 12:29 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lab Monkey View Post
No, I love Hextall and Leach as much as the next guy. But there are too many numbers being retired, and I honestly believe that there should be a certain line one must cross in order to get the distinction. Parent did it, Clarkie did it, Ashbee and Barber did it for me as well, but NOBODY else comes close to deserving it so far. If Eric had stuck around for his whole career here and didn't have the health issues he likely would have been next in line. I am holding out hope some of the guys on the current team can make it happen, but I honestly don't want another number retired until it is EARNED
So Ron Hextall, who is the face of the franchise in terms of being the single most beloved Flyer, EVER (with the addition of the latest generation of Flyers fans...there's more of us than there were in the Cup years)...really up until Mike Richards, hasn't earned it, but Eric Lindros, who got injured and his parents turned this team into a complete circus, is only excluded by injures. That's sort of a double standard you hold for something some people seemingly hold more prestigious than actually achieving the ultimate goal of winning the Stanley Cup.

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12-06-2008, 01:23 PM
  #14
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Very good post. Leach put up some impressive numbers. it should be considered but I can not decide at this point. I will try to think about it. However, a franchise must be careful about retiring numbers. You must stay in the elite level. Once you let one guy in who falls below this "elite" category, many other players will say that they deserve to be in.

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12-06-2008, 01:35 PM
  #15
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I could see #27 being retired but at the same time i wouldnt want it to turn into what the Canadiens have going. Do they even have any numbers left?

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12-06-2008, 01:40 PM
  #16
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Frankly, it's disgraceful how the Flyers have handled numbers being retired, IMO. It's should be rare, but each generation of players should have 1 or 2 ... there are entire generations of fans that can look up to the rafters and not see a number of a guy they saw play. If you were born after 1969 all the retired players were done before you were 15.

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12-06-2008, 02:16 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Frankly, it's disgraceful how the Flyers have handled numbers being retired, IMO. It's should be rare, but each generation of players should have 1 or 2 ... there are entire generations of fans that can look up to the rafters and not see a number of a guy they saw play. If you were born after 1969 all the retired players were done before you were 15.
If you're like me, and born in July of 1984, all the retired players were retired before you were born.


I agree with you, that's how I see it. A lot, if not most of the people that fill the pockets of Ed Snider don't have the same connection to Clarke, Parent, Ashbee and Barber that the previous generation has. Clarke and Barber both retired the season before I was born. Ever since Howe and Hextall retired, everyone who has worn 2 or 27 have been kind of frowned upon for doing it, actually the same for a few other numbers, but we're talking about guys who made their hay a long time ago.

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12-06-2008, 03:34 PM
  #18
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The younger Hextall was quite accomplished, but we never produced a cup with him. I guess it would be different if Hextall had won a cup. On the flip-side, has there really been any outstanding players who are as good as or comparable to those who have been retired? Do we really make the determination of what numbers to retire based on results, close-calls, or a tragic outcome? Maybe the eras are just different. I'm in the same boat as gkj514 where us born in 1984 all the retired numbers were by players who haven't played in almost 25 years and haven't played in our lifetime. Then I guess the other question is do we want to retire a number because we haven't done it for a player who has played during many of lifetimes?

While we all love Hexy and associate the Flyers with Hextall, retiring a number should be for someone who not just defines a generation of hockey, but also produces a winning team and to not retire their number would be an injustice. In the end I don't think we should retire 27 for Hextall at least until we have someone to compare him to besides Parent (since Parent will always be #1).

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12-06-2008, 05:54 PM
  #19
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good god people, do you realize that we are discussing retiring the numbers of players who aren't even good enough to get into the HHOF???? Hell, even if JUST the numbers of every player to get into the HHOF was retired then the NHL would be running out of numbers. The absolute BEST Flyer to NOT be in the HHOF is Mark Howe and we aren't even discussing whether or not it is HIS number that should be retired or not. I would like to see Howe get elected into the HHOF but I also think he's a borderline case at best.

If you're not good enough to get into the HHOF then why should you be good enough to get your number retired??? This sin't grade for the short bus kids, not everyone gets a ribbon here. Just becasue the Flyers haven't produced a HHOF quality player to be the face of the franchise during your generation doesn't mean we should take the best we have just to give you your lollipop.

GKJ, you're only 24, Richards and Carter are the Flyers that YOU will hopefully remember as being the face of the franchise during your young and spunky years (yes, I'm dumb and old enough to be able to say that, I've been there to with guys like Howe, Poulin, Propp and Kerr, Clarke and Barber were from when I was a kid and playing myself). At your age I never missed a minute of a game, now I have kids and spend half the game folding cloths or making dinner. The player that was suppose to the The Generational player for the Flyers during your youth was Lindros. It didn't quite work out but that doesn't mean we should award a consolation prize. Carter and Richards have the potential to, whether they ever win a cup for us or not, to the kind of players that ARE the face of the franchise and warrent retiring of one or both their numbers.

I understand wanting the guys you grew up watching to get some recognition but let that take the form of the Flyer HOF, not the retiring of numbers. Numbers should be something sacred, not something commonplace.

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12-06-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
good god people, do you realize that we are discussing retiring the numbers of players who aren't even good enough to get into the HHOF???? Hell, even if JUST the numbers of every player to get into the HHOF was retired then the NHL would be running out of numbers. The absolute BEST Flyer to NOT be in the HHOF is Mark Howe and we aren't even discussing whether or not it is HIS number that should be retired or not. I would like to see Howe get elected into the HHOF but I also think he's a borderline case at best.

If you're not good enough to get into the HHOF then why should you be good enough to get your number retired??? This sin't grade for the short bus kids, not everyone gets a ribbon here. Just becasue the Flyers haven't produced a HHOF quality player to be the face of the franchise during your generation doesn't mean we should take the best we have just to give you your lollipop.

GKJ, you're only 24, Richards and Carter are the Flyers that YOU will hopefully remember as being the face of the franchise during your young and spunky years (yes, I'm dumb and old enough to be able to say that, I've been there to with guys like Howe, Poulin, Propp and Kerr, Clarke and Barber were from when I was a kid and playing myself). At your age I never missed a minute of a game, now I have kids and spend half the game folding cloths or making dinner. The player that was suppose to the The Generational player for the Flyers during your youth was Lindros. It didn't quite work out but that doesn't mean we should award a consolation prize. Carter and Richards have the potential to, whether they ever win a cup for us or not, to the kind of players that ARE the face of the franchise and warrent retiring of one or both their numbers.

I understand wanting the guys you grew up watching to get some recognition but let that take the form of the Flyer HOF, not the retiring of numbers. Numbers should be something sacred, not something commonplace.
It's a sport. It's for the fans. **** 'sacred'. Howe, Hextall, and Desjardins are all players that gave their all for this franchise and deserve it, IMO.

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12-06-2008, 07:44 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
It's a sport. It's for the fans. **** 'sacred'. Howe, Hextall, and Desjardins are all players that gave their all for this franchise and deserve it, IMO.
I would say they deserve to be in the Flyers HOF but not their jerseys retired. We differ in our views and that's ok.

If you are going to retire Howe, Hextall and Desjardins why stop there??? Poulin, Propp and Kerr were the face of the franchise thru the 80's so they should have theirs retired too. John LeClair was a great team player giving his all and potting a couple of 50 goal seasons, something that no Flyer has come close to since. You want to talk about warriors giving their all for the team, nobody tops Brad Marsh in that regards. That man would dive in front of slap shots all while NOT wearing a helmet let alone a face guard. Now what about Pelle Lindberg??? Talk about a great player who had his career cut short, lets retire his too. Jimmy and Joe Watson were both very good dmen and probably about the equal (or pretty close to) Howe and Desjardins, lets retire their numbers too. Hell, Rod Brindimore was beloved while he was here and he's still one of the all time most loved Flyers of all time, I know he's now played longer for the Canes then he did for the Flyers but lets retire his number too.

Oh, and retiring of jerseys ISN'T for the fans, it's to honor the player, not the fans.


Last edited by phlocky: 12-06-2008 at 07:53 PM.
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Old
12-06-2008, 07:50 PM
  #22
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I like how the Flyers are strict with their number retirements. At the same time, I am seeing first hand what a player like Treveor Linden, who couldn't quite lead him team to a championship, means to the Vancouver Canucks and the city of Vancouver. Under the Flyers' current policy, Trevor Linden would not have his number retired in Philadelphia had he had the exact same career in orange and black.

I'm a little torn on the issue, but the glaring fact is that there hasn't been a Stanley Cup banner raised in Philadelphia in over 30 years.

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12-06-2008, 08:07 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I like how the Flyers are strict with their number retirements. At the same time, I am seeing first hand what a player like Treveor Linden, who couldn't quite lead him team to a championship, means to the Vancouver Canucks and the city of Vancouver. Under the Flyers' current policy, Trevor Linden would not have his number retired in Philadelphia had he had the exact same career in orange and black.

I'm a little torn on the issue, but the glaring fact is that there hasn't been a Stanley Cup banner raised in Philadelphia in over 30 years.
Basically, the Flyers philosophy is that if Trevor Linden isn't good enough to get into the HHOF then he's not good enough to get his number retired. He'd certainl be good enough to be inducted into the FLYERS HOF and he'd have his named, a plaque and a little bio of him and his time in Philly on display at the Wach for all the fans to see. THAT is truly honoring the player in a manor that is FOR THE FANS.

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Old
12-06-2008, 09:50 PM
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Not sure where to start with this...we all love Hexy, we all love alot of different players. Personally I would start with Rico and Rex, but that's just MY opinion. Some people think Lindros or Forsberg were great and deserve retired numbers. If it hasn't happened yet, I don't think Hexy is getting it. I don't think fan input is going to make it happen either, whether he deserves it or not.

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12-06-2008, 09:56 PM
  #25
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I just want to be able to take my kid to a game one day and when he/she asks me why #64 is hanging from the rafters, I want to be able to tell him/her that I saw him play and what he meant to the team and the city instead of reciting stories of Youtube and Wikipedia. It's insulting to me as a next-generation fan that I can't do that. They made sure they retire the number of a Sixer who at least had a decent career. Charles Barkley only spent half of his career here, and we all know Iverson is next. They put out a half decent team - sometimes. And this for a team that is no more than a mild curiosity in this city.


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