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Nedved, Jussi just sent here for Helminen and 2nd rounder

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03-03-2004, 07:50 PM
  #76
Seachd
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Yeah, Miz was right. He and I had a long arguement last season about Nedved. As it turns out, here he is. And while I still think Nedved's old and overpaid, it might not be too bad. It definitely does address a need, at least for the short term.

But I'm not upset like Miz. If Lowe would have gotten a cheaper centre for Comrie, it could only have been a 3rd/4th line centre. I'd rather have Woywitka and the picks.

But, depending on how much you like Nedved, it could be seen as overpaying if you back at the last trade. So basically:

Nedved
Leetch compensation

for

Valiquette
Helminen
2nd
4th

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03-03-2004, 07:53 PM
  #77
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I go watch Mel G's Jebus movie.......and look what happens in Oiler land.

WELCOME BACK JUSSI!!!!
So glad to have this guy back in the fold. Ty+Jussi are both fundamentally sound goalies who control things well and make enough saves to win.

Petr Nedved????

He must've been what was available, because I just don't understand why if you're gonna go out and get yourself a center making big $$$'s you wouldn't up the ante a little bit and grab someone younger, and better.

Not complaining, just not sure I see the logic.

The only thing I'd really not like much is a minor thing, and that's Valliquette. He's a solid tender I woulda liked to have had around for a while kickin around down there, too bad we didn't ship em Moss.


And PLEASE....PLEASE let this mean that TOMMY SALO IS LEAVING!!!

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03-03-2004, 07:53 PM
  #78
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Does anyone not understand how this trade really breaks down?

Nedved, Markkanen, Comp 2nd pick (leetch signing)
for
Dwight, Valley, 2nd and a 4th (in the Markannen for Leetch deal).

If this isn't asset management, I don't know what is!!!

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03-03-2004, 07:54 PM
  #79
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i think we picked Valiquette of the waiver wire and not signed him through FA?

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03-03-2004, 07:56 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Lowetide had a thread a week or so ago about how he hoped that Lowe didn't trade off young assets for a 'last gasp' try at the playoffs.
I don't think too many posters have agreed with my hope that the Oilers would flush the season, and the Oilers sure as hell didn't cooperate.

My choice would have been to flush the season because so much has gone wrong. That wasn't Kevin Lowe's choice. I think most posters here are pretty damn happy that I am not in a management position with the Oilers.

If they had dealt a first rounder or Semenov, then you bet I'm right there with you. But Dwight Helminen was a late round pick, the 2 they gave up was valuable but they have several high picks, and Valliquette is never going to be a deal breaker.

This was a pretty damn good deal imo.

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03-03-2004, 07:57 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Does anyone not understand how this trade really breaks down?

Nedved, Markkanen, Comp 2nd pick (leetch signing)
for
Dwight, Valley, 2nd and a 4th (in the Markannen for Leetch deal).

If this isn't asset management, I don't know what is!!!
Exactly!

Especially when you consider that Valley was a UFA signing and then was picked up off waivers.. and Helminen was an 8th round pick. It's great.

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03-03-2004, 07:57 PM
  #82
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The thing that seems to be going by the wayside is the actual value of the assets we gave up. (Ok, going by Mizral's wayside, that is...)

2nd - (we have at least 2, one from the Leetch FA Signing and our own)
Dwight H. - As others have mentioned, 15th ranked prospect. Does New York even have 15 prospects?
Valiquette - Yeah, like this guy was going to be the answer in net. Cost us nothing in terms of assets, played in the minors making AHL money for the entire year.

Coming in:
900K of Petr Nedved - proven chemistry with Dvorak and an option for next year at 4.75 (or 5 even, not sure...heard both figures)
Jussi Markannen - Proven Oiler goaltender. I bet he is happy to come back, and he always played well for us. Likewise, the team always seemed to play well in front of Juice. Makes under 1 million AFAIK.

Here. Equate this with Vancouver dealing Mojis and Moss + Pick. Assume you don't have Hedberg. Bad asset management? The Oilers have an even bigger (try HUGE) hole at C and a definite question mark in goal. Lowe made a deal that filled two needs, big needs, without giving up ANYTHING from the active roster.

Lowe's second best deal ever IMO.

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03-03-2004, 07:58 PM
  #83
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Woo! Great trade!

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Old
03-03-2004, 08:00 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Petr Nedved????

He must've been what was available, because I just don't understand why if you're gonna go out and get yourself a center making big $$$'s you wouldn't up the ante a little bit and grab someone younger, and better.

Not complaining, just not sure I see the logic.
Lowe used none of his major bargaining chips to get the guy, and I think that is why he made the deal. He still has the option, and all the resources, to make a deal you are talking about if it presents itself.

Quote:
The only thing I'd really not like much is a minor thing, and that's Valliquette. He's a solid tender I woulda liked to have had around for a while kickin around down there, too bad we didn't ship em Moss.
Morrison is going to be an awesome goaltender, and I would argue is already better than Valley, which makes him rather expendable.

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03-03-2004, 08:00 PM
  #85
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i wouldnt say 2nd best deal, nobody has played yet Nedved may not shine. Lets wait for a few games before we say that

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03-03-2004, 08:00 PM
  #86
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Did anyone notice on the Oilers' site it says a "previously acquired" 2nd round pick? I assume, then, it will be the Leetch compensation pick, even though a) we think, but can never be certain, that it'll be a 2nd, and b) it hasn't been acquired yet.

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03-03-2004, 08:02 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
If Lowe wanted to resign him to a multi-year deal, he could have done as much when he was a UFA in a couple months and not lost any assets whatsoever.

Again, I like Nedved, but I am seeing some pretty strange flip-flops from some of the fans earlier.

Lowetide had a thread a week or so ago about how he (and most of the thread) hoped that Lowe didn't trade off young assets for a 'last gasp' try at the playoffs. Go back and read the Nedved threads before today, how many Oilers fans wanted to pick him up? VERY few.

Sorry guys, I can understand you are very excited right now - who wouldn't be after a trade. However, it will absolutely set in that this was a silly move by a GM who is trying to squeeze into a playoff spot no matter how small the chances.

Honestly, ask yourself this:

If you didn't believe the Oilers would make the playoffs yesterday, how could you possibly be in favour of this deal today?
I think you're missing the point. It's about dealing from your strenghts to address your weaknesses, something I know you've been critical of Lowe in the past.

Oiler's Weakness: #1 Centre
Oiler's Strenghts: Prospect Centres (Pouliot, Niinimaki, Brodziak, Winchester, etc...)

Oilers aquire: #1 Centre who's 6'3, 200lbs with 8 20-goal seasons under his belt.
Oiler's Deal: A centre prospect who's ranked #15 on our prospect list, who may never make the NHL, and NO ONE OFF OF OUR CURRENT ROSTER!!!

This isn't rocket science...that's great asset management.

NOW...If Lowe lets Nedved walk, then you may have a case. (BTW, Nedved has a team option next year, so he's not automatically a UFA, thus no signing him in the off-season, obviously). Regardless of whether this team makes the playoffs or not, if Nedved is with the team next year, it's a great trade. Sorry Mizral, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on.

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Old
03-03-2004, 08:04 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Lowe used none of his major bargaining chips to get the guy, and I think that is why he made the deal. He still has the option, and all the resources, to make a deal you are talking about if it presents itself.



Morrison is going to be an awesome goaltender, and I would argue is already better than Valley, which makes him rather expendable.
And so Lowe had better go for the jugular if he's gonna lean that way, instead of just leaning. He's gotta add another guy or two to this team if he's serious. Maybe even alter the defensive core.

Not completely sold on Mike Morrison, but I see that he may have potential from his play. Still would rather move Moss than Valley.

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03-03-2004, 08:04 PM
  #89
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can the oilers even trade that compensatory pick?

especially back to the same team that they got the UFA player from?

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03-03-2004, 08:05 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i think we picked Valiquette of the waiver wire and not signed him through FA?
We technically did both Rabi!

We signed hims as a UFA in the summer out of the Islanders system. He had to be sent through waivers to Toronto, but was picked up (by Florida I think). Florida then tried to send him down, but the Oilers picked him back up again.

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03-03-2004, 08:06 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
can the oilers even trade that compensatory pick?

especially back to the same team that they got the UFA player from?
I don't know if they've officially received the pick yet, but if they did, it's probably like a future considerations deal...

It'd be even sweeter if Lowe kept the better of the 2 picks.

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03-03-2004, 08:06 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
can the oilers even trade that compensatory pick?

especially back to the same team that they got the UFA player from?
Yeah, that's what I mean. They have no previously acquired 2nd rounder (that I know of).

The team doesn't really matter, though, because the pick won't come from the Rangers anyway.

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03-03-2004, 08:07 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
can the oilers even trade that compensatory pick?

especially back to the same team that they got the UFA player from?
I think you can if you call it a "conditional 2nd round pick", although I haven't seen it listed as such anywhere yet.

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03-03-2004, 08:09 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I don't know if they've officially received the pick yet, but if they did, it's probably like a future considerations deal...

It'd be even sweeter if Lowe kept the better of the 2 picks.
I would imagine the Oilers' own pick would be the better one. The absolute highest the Leetch pick could be is #41 overall, and I doubt it'll be anywhere near that.

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03-03-2004, 08:14 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor
More likely, Edmonton will exercise the option on Nedved, and trade him next season for a draft pick. He may be a rental, but when you look at the costs of the asset;

1 - 2nd rounder
2 - Helimnen - (15th ranked Edmonton Prospect on Hockey's Future.)
3 - Valliquette - signed this season as a FA, cost us nothing.

So, Edmonton basically traded a second rounder, goalie signed earlier this year as a FA, and a low ranked prospect, for a better goalie and a top line player that they can keep for another year?

This isn't good asset management?

If they trade Nedved in the future, and get only a second rounder for him, will Miz be here telling us that Lowe couldn't trade a first liner for a first pick?
First off, if Lowe re-ups Nedved's team option for $5 million, that would be even more ridiculous. He'd be the most overpaid player on the team by a large, large margin.

And if they do reup the team option and trade him, who is going to give up a 2nd rounder for him? Would you give up a 2nd rounder for a $5 million dollar, 50 point player? No. Either would any team in this league.

Then you might say, well, they'll trade him late in the season. That still means that Lowe has paid tons of cash all year for Nedved.

Resigning Nedved has zero reasoning, UNLESS the Rangers are agreeing to reaquire him back like the Blues did last year with Valerie Bure.

Again, if this was done a few months ago, this is a great deal. But right now, there's just no reasoning here.

In the best case scenario, the Oilers slip into the playoffs, lose in the first round to the #1 or #2 team, Oilers make $2 million in the playoff round, Nedved is let go as a UFA - in this scenario, the Oilers basically moved a 2nd round pick (I'm regarding the rest of the dela for Maarkanen to being equal) for $2 million dollars, which isn't terrible, but isn't wonderful either.

In perhaps the most reasonable scenario, the Oilers miss the playoffs, Nedved is NOT reuped (and if he is, this gets far, far worse), the Oilers moved a 2nd, 4th, Valley, and Helmelainen for Maarkanen, a guy Lowe deemed expendable in the off-season.

In the worst case scenario, Oilers miss the playoffs, Nedved is reuped, and his $5 million dollars completely negates the money saved by losing Salo & Oates, then the Oilers are in the same damn position as they were last year.. except they Ty Conklin or Jussi Maarkanen is the starter instead of Salo.. and if there is any worse pairing than Salo/Conklin this year, that might be it.

Again, as I said, I like Nedved and this move 2 months ago would have been nice. But right now, this is, as I said, the worst move since Jiri Dopita.

EDIT: And once again, I remind people - there is no way Sather would re-up Nedved at $5 million (yes, even the Rangers). The Oilers could have had him for nothing as a UFA if they really wanted him, plus it likely would have been cheaper.


Last edited by Mizral: 03-03-2004 at 08:18 PM.
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03-03-2004, 08:15 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i wouldnt say 2nd best deal, nobody has played yet Nedved may not shine. Lets wait for a few games before we say that
Good point.


Got a little overzealous there.

ON PAPER...second best trade ever

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03-03-2004, 08:15 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
Did anyone notice on the Oilers' site it says a "previously acquired" 2nd round pick? I assume, then, it will be the Leetch compensation pick, even though a) we think, but can never be certain, that it'll be a 2nd, and b) it hasn't been acquired yet.
Yeah it looks like we get Maarkanen back and NYR get the Leech compensation pick back....so if you exclude those and only look at the assets that have really changed hands at the end of the day the deal is:

To NYR - Edm 4th round pick, Big Valley, Dwight H.

To Edm - Nedved



Yeah that's awful asset mgmt - Mizral is west coast slang for sour grapes

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03-03-2004, 08:19 PM
  #98
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I like this deal for no other reason than the message it sends to the dressing room...their GM isn't ready to give up on the season, so neither should they. Their lineup gets a serious jolt without any teammates having to be sacrificed, that SHOULD ease some tension. We'll see how they respond.

Has Lowe EVER done a March deal like this, where he gets back a proven veteran scoring threat and some dearly needed NHL level goalie depth while only giving up picks and prospects? And a prospect that's not even in the top 10? No offense to Funky or Oilers Chick, but Helminen doesn't even show up on my radar screen compared to giving up someone like Rita or Salmo.

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03-03-2004, 08:20 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
then the Oilers are in the same damn position as they were last year.. except they Ty Conklin or Jussi Maarkanen is the starter instead of Salo.. and if there is any worse pairing than Salo/Conklin this year, that might be it..

You conveniently forget to mention the part about us having a #1 Center finally, or at least, the closest thing we can come to here. Salo was gone anyway...so it would have been Conklin and somebody regardless. At least we know what to expect from the somebody we got.

And who says Lowe is done on the goalie front Miz? He now has three NHL goalies, all of whom have to pass waivers, one of whom is coming off the IR in two weeks.

He can't be done on the goalie front, not if he wants to waste a roster spot or lose a goalie for nothing (Is Salo worth nothing? I wouldn't take him for nothing...lol)

Something else is going to happen. Has to.

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03-03-2004, 08:22 PM
  #100
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Mizral, have you ever seen Jussi play? He is very good goalie, and his nick doesn't really fit him.

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