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OT: Sundin (UPDATE: signs w/Vancouver)

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Old
12-13-2008, 11:12 PM
  #126
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No one is dismissing the Rangers but I do not think they are better on D then any other team in Atlantic with exception NYI.

Flyers capable playing much better, we did so in hand full of games.
Pens obviously missing top 2 d-men plus Gill.
Devils - no name d-nce and now back up gpalies continue to succeed (somehow)


NYR - right now are overrated.

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Old
12-14-2008, 08:30 AM
  #127
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Jester, do you agree it's going to take 100-105 points, at least, to win the Atlantic.

Because honestly, the Rangers aren't going to be close. 96 points at the absolute maximum, probably more like 89-93.

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Old
12-14-2008, 08:34 AM
  #128
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so whatever happened to shanahan coming to philly? there was all that talk and then it just kinda dies. going into the playoffs id rather have him in the lineup then nodl

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12-14-2008, 08:40 AM
  #129
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People realized that the room we have under the cap wouldn't meet federal minimum wage requirements, let alone what Shanahan would want?

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Old
12-14-2008, 10:36 AM
  #130
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He apparently has narrowed his focus to four teams -- the New York Rangers, Montreal Canadiens, Vancouver Canucks and Chicago Blackhawks.
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hoc...45216-sun.html

sorry if this was already posted

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Old
12-14-2008, 11:06 AM
  #131
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Redden and Roszival are god awful.

Every NYR fan wants them gone.

They should have kept Tyuitin and went with:

Tyutin-Girardi
Staal-Mara
Kalinin-???

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Old
12-14-2008, 11:16 AM
  #132
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Redden the Lemon

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Old
12-14-2008, 11:38 AM
  #133
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Blackhawks have already said they were out, everyone is reporting the other 3 plus the Flyers.

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Old
12-14-2008, 11:42 AM
  #134
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Redden the Lemon
"Tampa Bay pretty much signed half our team"

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Old
12-14-2008, 12:46 PM
  #135
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I cant imagine paying the doofus duo of Redden and Rosival 11.5 million a year long term.

Briere might be a defensive liability and a pure offense player but at least he isnt a defenseman.

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Old
12-14-2008, 01:25 PM
  #136
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I cant imagine paying the doofus duo of Redden and Rosival 11.5 million a year long term.

Briere might be a defensive liability and a pure offense player but at least he isnt a defenseman.
i agree. Of all the UFA dmen to come available in the past 2 years the first I wanted was Andre Markov and second was Timonen. Beyond those 2 I really wasn't too excited about over paying for a 1-way dman. I know Markov was resigned before he hit the market but I rated him just as high as Timonen and he's a few years younger. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with Timonen and he's everything I expected but I think Markov is they same type of dman. None of the other dmen in the past 2 years even come close to these 2 as far as what they bring to the table on both sides of the ice. I would have liked to been able to keep that 1st and still sign Timonen but if the cost for us to make certain we got Timonen and didn't have to settle for a guy like Campbell or Redden was a 1st, then I'm glad we paid that price. I believe it was worth it.

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Old
12-14-2008, 03:10 PM
  #137
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Apparently the Satellite Hotstove last night said we were going hard after Sundin...

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Old
12-14-2008, 03:52 PM
  #138
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Apparently the Satellite Hotstove last night said we were going hard after Sundin...
Im still trying to figure out where the money is gonna come from...

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:05 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
No one is dismissing the Rangers but I do not think they are better on D then any other team in Atlantic with exception NYI.

Flyers capable playing much better, we did so in hand full of games.
Pens obviously missing top 2 d-men plus Gill.
Devils - no name d-nce and now back up gpalies continue to succeed (somehow)


NYR - right now are overrated.
Right now, the statistical team defense ranks in the Atlantic are:

1) Rangers
2) Devils
3) Penguins
4) Flyers
5) Islanders

Last year after 82 games, it finished:

1) Rangers
2) Devils
3) Penguins
4) Flyers
5) Islanders

Rangers, Devils, and Penguins were all top 10 defenses. We've been a better team defensively since the beginning of the year, but we're FAR from a good defense and especially when healthy the Rangers, Devils, and Pens all have shown they can play good defense. Now, you can say that's because of the goalie or whatever else...but the result is the other team isn't scoring on 'em.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Jester, do you agree it's going to take 100-105 points, at least, to win the Atlantic.

Because honestly, the Rangers aren't going to be close. 96 points at the absolute maximum, probably more like 89-93.
Based on history, it absolutely will. Right now the Rangers are on pace for 104 points, and I think they have players who will produce better from this point in the season to the conclusion of the year. And I also think they'll be a tougher team to play in February than they are now...defensive teams usually are.

Of course, I'm also pretty sure we're looking at 4 teams from the Atlantic getting in based on what I've seen to this point in the season.

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:06 PM
  #140
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Im still trying to figure out where the money is gonna come from...
Only if you believe in the theory they did that Briere is injuried worse then everyone is letting on.

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:08 PM
  #141
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Assuming those ranks are by GA/game then have Lunqvist kinda helps? I know the rangers play a defensive system, but I think Lundy is the main reason they win games

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:15 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Assuming those ranks are by GA/game then have Lunqvist kinda helps? I know the rangers play a defensive system, but I think Lundy is the main reason they win games
Team defense includes the goalie...can't separate the two. Rangers play to their strengths, absolutely true.

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:18 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Right now, the statistical team defense ranks in the Atlantic are:

1) Rangers
2) Devils
3) Penguins
4) Flyers
5) Islanders

Last year after 82 games, it finished:

1) Rangers
2) Devils
3) Penguins
4) Flyers
5) Islanders

Rangers, Devils, and Penguins were all top 10 defenses. We've been a better team defensively since the beginning of the year, but we're FAR from a good defense and especially when healthy the Rangers, Devils, and Pens all have shown they can play good defense. Now, you can say that's because of the goalie or whatever else...but the result is the other team isn't scoring on 'em.



Based on history, it absolutely will. Right now the Rangers are on pace for 104 points, and I think they have players who will produce better from this point in the season to the conclusion of the year. And I also think they'll be a tougher team to play in February than they are now...defensive teams usually are.

Of course, I'm also pretty sure we're looking at 4 teams from the Atlantic getting in based on what I've seen to this point in the season.
Of course they are, they're a trapping team.

They're also 23rd in goals for per game.

The most glaring stat, however, is that they're even in GF (88) vs. GA (88). That's a pretty glaring statistic and not something that is indicative of long term success.

Let me give you one more statistic, they've won EIGHT (8) games in shootouts this year. Do you see that lasting? Do you see that as a strong indication of long term regular season success or do you see that as something that is artificially boosting their point total and something that won't last all year (I see it as the latter).

And I don't see them improving offensively. They lack talent and they play a style that isn't designed to overcome that lack of talent offensively, it suppresses what talent they have.

They are a mediocre hockey team and will be a borderline playoff team.

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:26 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Gags1288 View Post
Of course they are, they're a trapping team.

They're also 23rd in goals for per game.

The most glaring stat, however, is that they're even in GF (88) vs. GA (88). That's a pretty glaring statistic and not something that is indicative of long term success.

Let me give you one more statistic, they've won EIGHT (8) games in shootouts this year. Do you see that lasting? Do you see that as a strong indication of long term regular season success or do you see that as something that is artificially boosting their point total and something that won't last all year (I see it as the latter).

And I don't see them improving offensively. They lack talent and they play a style that isn't designed to overcome that lack of talent offensively, it suppresses what talent they have.

They are a mediocre hockey team and will be a borderline playoff team.
Yes. The shootout is a key element to accumulating points in the regular season now, and it's why it has sucked that the Flyers have blown at the damn thing. Edmonton kept themselves in the playoff race last year ENTIRELY because of the shootout. Dallas has killed people in the shootouts and it has had a lot to do with their regular season success since it was implemented.

Get a goalie who is good on shootouts and some guys that know how to finish, and it has real impact in the standings.

And being even in GF/GA isn't really glaring. If you're winning and losing games by 1 goal and then winning shootouts...that's what you'd expect. Boston made the playoffs with a negative differential last year (definitely not a formula for success, but with all these freebie points out there to pick up...it's something to get used to).

Their lack of offense will kill them in the playoffs, but it won't kill them in the regular season if they play smart team hockey throughout the entirety.

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:54 PM
  #145
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Yes. The shootout is a key element to accumulating points in the regular season now, and it's why it has sucked that the Flyers have blown at the damn thing. Edmonton kept themselves in the playoff race last year ENTIRELY because of the shootout. Dallas has killed people in the shootouts and it has had a lot to do with their regular season success since it was implemented.

Get a goalie who is good on shootouts and some guys that know how to finish, and it has real impact in the standings.

And being even in GF/GA isn't really glaring. If you're winning and losing games by 1 goal and then winning shootouts...that's what you'd expect. Boston made the playoffs with a negative differential last year (definitely not a formula for success, but with all these freebie points out there to pick up...it's something to get used to).

Their lack of offense will kill them in the playoffs, but it won't kill them in the regular season if they play smart team hockey throughout the entirety.
It kept Edmonton in the playoffs for most of the year until it didn't, that's kind of the point here. I don't see them winning 20 games in the shootout this year, which is about what they're on pace for. They'll start to lose some of those games.

GF/GA is a glaring stat if you want to finish at the top of your division and near the top of your conference. Last year, the worst team with 100+ points was Anaheim at +14 and after that, there was a tie between San Jose and Pittsburgh at +29.

The year before that, the worst was Jersey at +15 and the other teams that topped 100 points were at +55, +60, +21, +44, +50, +29, +59, +29, +66, +66. You simply cannot win consistently when you're giving up as many goals as you're scoring.

Boston was the #8 seed last year, a perfect example of where you'll find yourself if you're hovering around 1 on the GF/GA ratio.

Beyond that, all you have to do is watch them play to realize that they're just not a very good team.

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Old
12-14-2008, 06:02 PM
  #146
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It kept Edmonton in the playoffs for most of the year until it didn't, that's kind of the point here. I don't see them winning 20 games in the shootout this year, which is about what they're on pace for. They'll start to lose some of those games.

GF/GA is a glaring stat if you want to finish at the top of your division and near the top of your conference. Last year, the worst team with 100+ points was Anaheim at +14 and after that, there was a tie between San Jose and Pittsburgh at +29.

The year before that, the worst was Jersey at +15 and the other teams that topped 100 points were at +55, +60, +21, +44, +50, +29, +59, +29, +66, +66. You simply cannot win consistently when you're giving up as many goals as you're scoring.

Boston was the #8 seed last year, a perfect example of where you'll find yourself if you're hovering around 1 on the GF/GA ratio.

Beyond that, all you have to do is watch them play to realize that they're just not a very good team.
As I recall, Edmonton was on the outside looking in for pretty much the entire year and then made a run at it at the end of the year. The reverse is going to be true of the Rangers.

Did you watch them last year? They were brutal to watch then too. It isn't like they're playing any different. They scored 2.50 goals a game last year, right now they're at 2.42. They're actually significantly worse to this point in the season in giving up goals.

Until they figure out how to score, they're not going to cup contenders...but that team is more than capable of making the playoffs...and they're more than capable of finishing ahead of us in the standings given the hot/cold nature we've displayed.

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Old
12-14-2008, 06:05 PM
  #147
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As I recall, Edmonton was on the outside looking in for pretty much the entire year and then made a run at it at the end of the year. The reverse is going to be true of the Rangers.

Did you watch them last year? They were brutal to watch then too. It isn't like they're playing any different. They scored 2.50 goals a game last year, right now they're at 2.42. They're actually significantly worse to this point in the season in giving up goals.

Until they figure out how to score, they're not going to cup contenders...but that team is more than capable of making the playoffs...and they're more than capable of finishing ahead of us in the standings given the hot/cold nature we've displayed.
Neither of which were the original point. The original point was the Rangers will not be in the race to win the division by the stretch run. And they will not be, because they aren't good enough to win this division.

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12-14-2008, 06:08 PM
  #148
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Little blurb from tsn.ca

"- The Philadelphia Daily News combined the rumours to have the Flyers moving D Randy Jones and Lupul to Florida for Bouwmeester."

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12-14-2008, 06:23 PM
  #149
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Little blurb from tsn.ca

"- The Philadelphia Daily News combined the rumours to have the Flyers moving D Randy Jones and Lupul to Florida for Bouwmeester."
I'd do it.

Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Knuble
Upshall-Metro-Nodl

Jbo-Coburn
Timonen-Carle
Parent-Alberts/Sbisa

Im gonna Crunch some numbers and see if he could fit in next year though


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Old
12-14-2008, 06:28 PM
  #150
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Little blurb from tsn.ca

"- The Philadelphia Daily News combined the rumours to have the Flyers moving D Randy Jones and Lupul to Florida for Bouwmeester."
No way would I do that, Jones has too much upside As for Sundin, Shanahan, I think Shanny is the logical choice. Good vet presence and stud shoot out and PP guy.

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