Although I think Horton is a very good hockey player, I would not give up Higs and Plek for him. I agree Horton is a bit better than Higs and, although he is struggling at the moment, Plekanec was our best centerman last year. They are both young and could each have as many points as Horton will this year and years to come, although both are not physical players compared to Horton.
Higs for Horton....yes
Plek for Horton....yes Higs and Plek for Horton....no way
Higs and Plek for Horton and Weiss???
WTF? Are you seriously kidding me, Nathan Horton at 4 mil for the next 6 years for Higgins and Plekanec would a dream aquisition, a joke. He is the PERFECT big right handed center with a mean streak and a killer wrister the Habs have needed for so long, he's young and fast, and with the lenght of his contract he woudn't be going anywhere either. Plekanec is playing like a very average #2/#3 center this year and i won't even start with Higgins. Having Horton, Koivu and Maxwell next as our 3 centers would be freakin awesome
Yes, to a certain extent. But it depends on the price, he has good value, but I wouldn't go trading Plekanec Higgins and McDonagh/Pacioretty for him.
I know Plek and Higgins are not having great years so far but they still have a lot more trade value than what are suggesting here.
I don't see how Plek would have that great of a trade value if like you said yourself, does disappear when comes playoff time....Add to the fact that it's true Horton needs to find some consistency in his game to achieve that but I really believe that surrounded by the right players AND the right system, he'll have all the motivation to achieve that, that it really becomes a real interesting offer.
I'm not sure myself I would do Pleks/Higgs for Horton, but honestly, it wouldn't be too far off.
WTF? Are you seriously kidding me, Nathan Horton at 4 mil for the next 6 years for Higgins and Plekanec would a dream aquisition, a joke. He is the PERFECT big right handed center with a mean streak and a killer wrister the Habs have needed for so long, he's young and fast, and with the lenght of his contract he woudn't be going anywhere either. Plekanec is playing like a very average #2/#3 center this year and i won't even start with Higgins. Having Horton, Koivu and Maxwell next as our 3 centers would be freakin awesome
Unless I'm missing something, Horton is playing right wing. From what I recall froom watching Florida he has played wing.
I think you're undervaluing Plekanec and Higgins bit a fair bit. You don't make that trade unless you are convinced that Horton will reach his 40 goal potential and be more consistant. Don't forget that Higgins had about the same stats as Horton last year on a line that struggled part of the year. Plekanec had more points if I'm not mistaken. Horton brings more of a physical game but it's not there every night, hence the frustration from the Florida organisation.
Edit. I checked the stats and he is 2nd to Weiss in faceoffs taken..46%. I still see him as a better option on the wing. He was 6th on his team in Hits and would be 12th on the Habs
Last edited by Monctonscout: 12-08-2008 at 01:38 PM.
There are 29 NHL teams that would love to have Higgins. Sure he needs to be more consistant, but he's a solid top 6 forward on any NHL team who can kill penalities, is good defensively, is liked/respected by teammates and can score 25-30 and at 25 is in his prime.
Unless I'm missing something, Horton is playing right wing. From what I recall froom watching Florida he has played wing.
I think you're undervaluing Plekanec and Higgins bit a fair bit. You don't make that trade unless you are convinced that Horton will reach his 40 goal potential and be more consistant. Don't forget that Higgins had about the same stats as Horton last year on a line that struggled part of the year. Plekanec had more points if I'm not mistaken. Horton brings more of a physical game but it's not there every night, hence the frustration from the Florida organisation.
Well said.
Horton NHL 311 106 100 206 +29 306 720 14.72
Higgins NHL 245 77 60 137 -8 80 600 12.83
Plekanec NHL 257 64 94 158 +28 122 503 12.72
There is no disputing that Horton is a very good, somewhat inconsistent player who has played on a bad team and is now not producing very well without Olli Jokinen. He is big and strong but I have seen him play many times and it seems he doesn't play big and strong as much as he used to. I would welcome him in a heartbeat with the Habs. But, as ridiculous as it sounds to some, not at the expense of Higgins and Plekancec.
WTF? Are you seriously kidding me, Nathan Horton at 4 mil for the next 6 years for Higgins and Plekanec would a dream aquisition, a joke. He is the PERFECT big right handed center with a mean streak and a killer wrister the Habs have needed for so long, he's young and fast, and with the lenght of his contract he woudn't be going anywhere either. Plekanec is playing like a very average #2/#3 center this year and i won't even start with Higgins. Having Horton, Koivu and Maxwell next as our 3 centers would be freakin awesome
Not at the expense of Higgins AND Plekanec, I have to agree with gillyguzzler.
Not at the expense of Higgins AND Plekanec, I have to agree with gillyguzzler.
I seriously need explanations on this one. For the good of our salary cap and the team i think that Horton for Higgins and Plekanec is a great trade. 1 for 1, there's no question that Horton has 3x the value Plekanec has. He's bigger, better, more physical, better shot, younger, etc... As for Higgins, well he will likely demand the same kind of money Horton is earning right now. I would much rather give that 4 mil to the right handed center we have been waiting for so long and give Higgins spot full time next year to one of Latendresse, Sergei, D'Agostini or Pacioretty. He is replacable, the cap will mostly be the same but with more production on our part
Horton is too inconsistent as of right now to take a gamble on. He doesn't use his size as he should and we still don't know what he'll be like without Jokinen taking up much of the attention from opposing teams.
If we're going to go after a big center, I'd rather look for someone a little more established.
Too bad we never picked up on Jeff Carter when he was available at the trade deadline, but I'd go after Jason Arnott at this point.
Plek + Gui for Horton, i'd do it. However, it wouldn't be an easy trade to make IMO. I wouldn't be prepared to send too much, there's a team chemistry here, as people said, this isn't NHL09, you make players grow together.
Mcdonagh/Pacioretty are our top prospects in their positions, they aren't going anywhere.
I seriously need explanations on this one. For the good of our salary cap and the team i think that Horton for Higgins and Plekanec is a great trade. 1 for 1, there's no question that Horton has 3x the value Plekanec has. He's bigger, better, more physical, better shot, younger, etc... As for Higgins, well he will likely demand the same kind of money Horton is earning right now. I would much rather give that 4 mil to the right handed center we have been waiting for so long and give Higgins spot full time next year to one of Latendresse, Sergei, D'Agostini or Pacioretty. He is replacable, the cap will mostly be the same but with more production on our part
That's where we disagree. Plekanec scored 29 goals last year, Higgins 27 and both are solid two way players. Both of them are way too much for Horton, as much as I like him. If we must shed some salary, other players would have to be involved. In other words, I'd consider it if Anthony Stewart or someone like that was included in the deal.
It wouldn't surprise me too much if Martin was listening to offers for Horton. Sometimes the window to build around a top draft pick closes. The air is too stale, and with a new coach, sometimes the only way to refurbish is to move some of the furniture, even the valuable pieces.
As for what I'd give up, it really depends on what Florida wants. I'd cross certain names off the list, and if there was any interest in the ones that remained, then yeehaw mcgraw let's make a deal. But if Martin were fielding offers for Horton, he wouldn't take the Habs very seriously if he asked for AKostitsyn, SKostitsyn, Pacioretty, McDonagh, and got rebuffed each time.
It's possible that the others would be appealing to Martin, but I get the sense that if Horton is available, it's at Martin's price, and it's not just a question of who we think the Habs could part with. Then again, the Jokinen deal surprised me, even though Ballard is a good player who was undervalued.
I love how when a player gets in a slump he is suddenly very expendable, does no one remember that Plekanec was our best overall forward last year?
Every player with maybe the exception of Price, Markov and Koivu are "expandable". It all depends on the return. I can't speak for others, but I'm thinking here that in order to get a player of Horton's caliber, you don't trade your garbage. They'll want quality and as you stated yourself, Plekanec is quality. As a matter of fact, I think that Plekanec for Horton one for one is pretty darn close to make the deal work. We may have to add a solid prospect or pick, or someone like O'Byrne, but that's it... because of Plekanec being a good player, not because he's slumping.
That's where we disagree. Plekanec scored 29 goals last year, Higgins 27 and both are solid two way players. Both of them are way too much for Horton, as much as I like him. If we must shed some salary, other players would have to be involved. In other words, I'd consider it if Anthony Stewart or someone like that was included in the deal.
With Latendresse and Sergei in the stands and Pacioretty probably being ready next season, we don't need Anthony Stewart. Remember that Horton had his goals on a weaker team then the Habs offensively, Plekanec was carried by Kovalev that surpassed his normal standards, Higgins played all season on the pp and the 1st line with Koivu. I thought the point about sheding some salary was about getting the less money back? Stewart (who sucks) is a no go
