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Joffrey Lupul

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Old
12-14-2008, 05:13 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Lupul's max should have been like 3.25 or something like Andrei Kost, or even Umberger.
My thoughts exactly.

Lupul has the skillset to justify next seasons' salary, but to this point, we have not seen that skillset translate into consistent production.

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12-14-2008, 06:41 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Agree on all counts. I see no justification as to why the Flyers resigned Lupul to so much money so quickly. It was like Philly management was in some kind of hurry to create yet another cap challenge for next year. Makes no sense to me.
I feel like they thought Lupul, when healthy, could regularly produce at the clip we witnessed before the Hatcher collision. Looking at who else was scheduled for a raise I think Homer and co. looked at the situation and thought, sign him now or watch the price raise. It's the only way it makes sense to me and I still feel like he could find his way on this team and pot 30+.

I would love to see if we could get Hamhuis from the Preds or Witt from the Isles provided he is healthy come deadline time.

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12-14-2008, 07:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by flyboys15 View Post
I feel like they thought Lupul, when healthy, could regularly produce at the clip we witnessed before the Hatcher collision. Looking at who else was scheduled for a raise I think Homer and co. looked at the situation and thought, sign him now or watch the price raise. It's the only way it makes sense to me and I still feel like he could find his way on this team and pot 30+.
Yea, I guess that's pretty much how things go in the salary cap era. Teams take risks and sign younger players to longer term deals based on potential. Sometimes it works (Richards, Carter), and sometimes it doesn't (verdict still out on Lupul). The thing that I don't understand, is why the Flyers thought that they had to do that with Lupul. Its not like we don't have enough wingers, with fine talent coming down the pipeline. It was an odd area to take the risk on an overpayment, IMO.

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I would love to see if we could get Hamhuis from the Preds or Witt from the Isles provided he is healthy come deadline time.
I would LOVE to get Hamhuis on this team, but my guess is that Predators' fans will tell you that the cost would be more than we would be willing to pay.

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12-14-2008, 07:34 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
No, because Lupul and Hartnell aren't even close to being the same type of player.

The market value for Hartnell is pretty much what he's getting paid (look at Malone and Penner for proof). Lupul may score as much or more as Hartnell, but he doesn't bring the same grit or consistent effort on a nightly basis. For Lupul to justify the same cap hit, he's gonna have to pot 25-30 goals along with 60+ points, and bring alot more consistency to his game, because he doesn't bring anything else to the table. Hartnell does.

In essence, the market value for Lupul (at his current production) is what he makes this year, not what he's scheduled to make next year. If you can't see the difference between Hartnell and Lupul, and why 4.2M is market value for one and not the other, then I really can't say much else on the matter.

lupul hasnt earned a dollar of that new contract yet. i just think its wrong for him to get dogged so early. yeah market rate at his production woud probably be around 3.5 but if the idea is to lock up your young core you dont take the chance on letting him walk over under a mil. and with everyone expecting the cap to continue to rise not to mention the upside should he ever find that consistency you take the chance. i dont love the new deal he got especially now with the cap expected to go down but i cant hate on them for giving it to him. and as i said before if hets the market he probably gets 3.5 so yes hes underpaid at 2.3. i really hated hartnells deal when he signed it but hes played up to it and i just think we should give loopps the same chance.

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12-14-2008, 07:43 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by flyboys15 View Post
I feel like they thought Lupul, when healthy, could regularly produce at the clip we witnessed before the Hatcher collision. Looking at who else was scheduled for a raise I think Homer and co. looked at the situation and thought, sign him now or watch the price raise. It's the only way it makes sense to me and I still feel like he could find his way on this team and pot 30+.

I would love to see if we could get Hamhuis from the Preds or Witt from the Isles provided he is healthy come deadline time.
the problem with many flyers forwards is that they won't get the ice time, PP time to produce like they should because they are so deep at forward... at $4MM a yr guys like lupul and hartnell would be getting top minutes and 1st unit PP time on most teams but they have to take a back seat to guys like richards, gagne and knuble...hell, even carter plays 2 nd unit PP...so, lupul may never show the production you expect out of a $4MM+ player...the guy that really will never reach his potential on this team is upshall...he will likely get the shaft come his UFA time.

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12-14-2008, 07:47 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
lupul hasnt earned a dollar of that new contract yet. i just think its wrong for him to get dogged so early. yeah market rate at his production woud probably be around 3.5 but if the idea is to lock up your young core you dont take the chance on letting him walk over under a mil. and with everyone expecting the cap to continue to rise not to mention the upside should he ever find that consistency you take the chance. i dont love the new deal he got especially now with the cap expected to go down but i cant hate on them for giving it to him. and as i said before if hets the market he probably gets 3.5 so yes hes underpaid at 2.3. i really hated hartnells deal when he signed it but hes played up to it and i just think we should give loopps the same chance.
I'm not ragging on Lupul. I'm simply stating that at his current production, next seasons' cap hit will be above market value. I also stated that he has the skillset to justify the contract, and since I'm a Flyers fan, I sincerely hope he does.

And I'm not hating on Flyers management either. I know how the game works in the salary cap era, and sometimes the risk in paying for potential works out, and sometimes it doesn't. I don't fault the Flyers for hedging their bets on Lupul any more than I fault them for hedging their bets on Carter and Richards.

But I do find it curious that they felt they couldn't have waited a bit longer to resign Lupul, and that they felt they had to give him that much. I also find it curious that they felt the need to take that risk at that particular position. Wanting to have great depth and talent at the center position, both now and for the future, is putting money in the right place (especially with Malkin and Crosby on the other side of the state), and is often worth the risk. But the rush to take that chance on a winger like Lupul? I don't know... Seems a bit strange for a team that already had issues with cap space.

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12-14-2008, 07:47 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
I would LOVE to get Hamhuis on this team, but my guess is that Predators' fans will tell you that the cost would be more than we would be willing to pay.
I have to agree with you, the Lupul thing is puzzling and it just continues to hurt my brain the more I attempt to rationalize the move. The biggest "con" IMO is the fact that we're missing out on the streaky guy in his contract year production numbers and skipped right to the overpaid slouch part.

Hamhuis would be tough to acquire because it's not even like you could throw Jones (who makes more than Hamhuis!) into the mix, Nashville has serviceable D-men for days. Robyn Regehr wouldn't alleviate our cap issue but I'd like to think Calgary would take a chance on Loops if we sweetened the pot somehow.

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Old
12-14-2008, 08:03 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
the problem with many flyers forwards is that they won't get the ice time, PP time to produce like they should because they are so deep at forward... at $4MM a yr guys like lupul and hartnell would be getting top minutes and 1st unit PP time on most teams but they have to take a back seat to guys like richards, gagne and knuble...hell, even carter plays 2 nd unit PP...so, lupul may never show the production you expect out of a $4MM+ player...the guy that really will never reach his potential on this team is upshall...he will likely get the shaft come his UFA time.
yeah that's a good call, I really hope Upshall is figured into Philly's future but he would be my odds on favorite to get screwed out of the equation.

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