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BRIERE DEC. 30 UPDATE (Post # 204) - Briere out, Flyers winning, coincidence?

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Old
12-16-2008, 01:24 PM
  #101
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That's total ice time.

Briere was third in even strength ice time with regularity. I'm not even talking about total ice time here, which he was third in as well.

Handzus was never our first option at center in even strength play, but he did build up a lot of minutes because he played on the PP and PK. Briere wasn't centering our first or second line late last spring. He was centering our third line.
My mistake, I thought we were talking total ice time......I still dont necessarily consider it the #3 line just because they had the third most ice time. Carter's line was at that point getting all the shut down assignments so they were out on the ice at certain times....Richards was typically getting the most time anyway. Briere's line was the top offensive line at that point with Prospal and Hartnell. You can argue that they were "2nd" but I would never call it the "3rd" line.

To me your first line is always your top scoring line, regardless of ice time.

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Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out View Post
I have mentioned all year that the Flyers might be better off without Briere.

Putting Briere in the lineup, I think, drastically reduces Carter's numbers. Why? Because he is simply getting less ice time up the middle.

But then again, one could say that teams begin to think less about Carter and discount him and that opens up more space.

One thing is for certain: the Flyers are better defensively without Briere. And that you can't challenge.
Considering Carter was scoring at a goal per game pace at the beginning of the season when Briere was in the lineup I think you are wrong....Plus, we havent seen Briere with this lineup, you cant say they are playing better defense without him cause when he was in the lineup they were playing awful defense. There was no where to go but up

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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
However, the Flyers had no choice but to sign Briere to that big deal as it showed they were serious about turning around the franchise. Honestly, do you think Gomez or Drury would have done as good a job as Briere has done? Never, not a million years. Briere up very good numbers while playing with 13 different linemates. 13. I don't know of any hockey player who had 13 different linemates in one season.

We saw what Briere could do in the playoffs when he had consistent linemates.

What people also need to realize was that the Briere signing brought a real synergy about it that the franchise was lacking. For once, we got a genuine offensively creative hockey player in the prime of his career. We didn't get a has-been with wonky ankles. We didn't get a concussed melon head. We got a genuine number one offensive hockey player.

The Briere signing was a move forward for this franchise, no matter how many may not see it. Finally, the Flyers were moving in a different direction. They were getting rid of the old 'big bangers are better than speedy skill players' mentality and were going to build a team similar in style to the Oilers of the 80s. That was the buzz this franchise needed and the Briere signing provided it. Now, I'm not saying that this or any team in the future will ever be able to do what the Oilers did in terms of offensive production, but for once, we weren't going to see a typical Flyers team consisting of ground and pound and trapping. It's that kind of energy that the Briere signing brought and that can never be devalued.

I'm not saying that Briere was the most important signing though. That goes to the signing of Kimmo Timonen. His play on the back end has been eerily similar to that of the Rico and the Flyers really underestimated just how much of a loss Desjardins was when he retired. Timonen really solidifed the blue line and just brought a real calming influence that was missing.
I agree with you completely. The problem here is that our coaching staff doesnt seem to know how to use that #1 offensively gifted center the right way....and second, many, many "flyers fans" have a hard time accepting a player that is not a mucker/grinder/fighter first and skilled player second, which is why from the beginning I never thought Briere would be widely accepted here and I think that is ridiculous.........

Forsberg, Lindros, Brind'amour, Primeau....These are the types of players that appeal to Philly, not Briere, Crosby, etc.

If we had Mario Lemieux here the fans would have probably complained he was a baby and never played defense.....

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I didn't at the time...didn't think Richards and Carter would be what they are. But, then again, I'm not paid to be a talent evaluator. I'm not the one who drafted them in the first round; Holmgren is. There were other ways to go...Nylander is a real clear example. He signed a two-year deal (and then got hurt), but that's the thought process they could have gone into that offseason with. These guys are going to be really really good...we don't need a Briere, we need a gap filler.

As it turned out...Richards was that good right away. Carter has taken a bit more time to percolate.

The point, however, is that it's silly to criticize people for changing their mind with changing circumstances. Two years ago the situation was one thing and it's changed dramatically since then.



Too much talent isn't a problem. Too much salary is.
I dont disagree...I in fact wanted to go with Richards as the #1, with the top line we have now coincidentally. However, we knew then that the organization was going to look for the quick fix and they did. We signed the right guy at that time and like it or not he is here and he makes us better as we saw in the playoffs last year.

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Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Your biggest issue is that 2 years ago the Flyers needed a centerman and now they don't. Well 2 years ago the two also sucked ass and Carter couldn't hit the net with a rocket launcher and Richards still only looked to be a 2nd/3rd line center. If they didn't sign Briere the situation could still be the same, but they did and now they went to the ECF last year and are on a roll after an extremely slow start.

They signed a superstar center to a long term deal . . . it happens. The cards fell the way they did. With Nylander maybe we have a cup or maybe we overpaid for a guy who doesn't play anymore. Maybe we get Gomez and then trade him to make room for Sundin . . . there are hundreds of 'What Ifs'. This is what happened and we'll see how it continues to progress.
Hey, Carter has been very streaky so far over his career. What happens if come January he goes two months without scoring a goal, are people going to still want to get rid of Briere????

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12-16-2008, 06:57 PM
  #102
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As everyone can see all our lines except the third i pretty strong.. I wish we could just sign Shanny, and when we get Briere back our third line is gonna be sick.

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I think the whole Briere makes us lose thing is a joke... Half the people here sound like they knew that Richards and Carter were going to explode. Then people come with the excuse that we didnt believe in them... Well let me ask you. Atfer one of the worse seasons in Flyers history, Homer would have been fired if he sat there and did nothing to change our future, and say "Well I trust in Richards (who everyone thought was just going to be a third line center) and Carter (who everyone nicknamed "high and wide"), to carry our team to a winning season. NO ONE would say that.

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12-16-2008, 07:48 PM
  #103
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Briere was not responsible for biron playing like a sieve to start the year.

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12-16-2008, 11:58 PM
  #104
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Hah or the defense scrambling around like idiots in those games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Too much talent isn't a problem. Too much salary is.
You worry wayyy too much about the cap. Let the management deal with that fun ****, they'll handle it fine. Just enjoy the crazy offensive team we have right now, which will be even better when Briere is back.

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12-17-2008, 09:43 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Miss Mess View Post
You worry wayyy too much about the cap. Let the management deal with that fun ****, they'll handle it fine. Just enjoy the crazy offensive team we have right now, which will be even better when Briere is back.
Ah, but that's debatable.

I worry about how the Flyers are going to get to winning a Stanley Cup. The salary cap is a major component in that. The salary cap makes following the management of the team vastly more interesting than it used to be. There is legitimate strategy and legitimate short-term v. long-term concerns that need to be weighed constantly.

I mean, look at the situation right now. Take Briere off this team and trading and signing someone like Jay Bouwmeester isn't a problem at all.

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Originally Posted by Miss Mess View Post
Hah or the defense scrambling around like idiots in those games

And, in fairness to this comment, Briere is one of the reasons our defense starts scrambling around a lot. He doesn't help them out much and it's a KILLER as a defenseman if the center isn't there for you. Now, I hated our defense at the start of the year, and still am not a huge fan of some aspects of it...but the addition of Carle has at least given us another guy back there that can both skate and pass.

If you want to pimp Briere's upside...you have to give equal weight to the bad.

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12-17-2008, 04:26 PM
  #106
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Update after today's (December 17, 2008) practice. One newspaper article from today mentioned a possible late December return and this perhaps squelches that.
Quote:

http://flyers.nhl.com/team/app/?serv...LPage&id=18891

One Flyer who was still absent from the facility was goaltender Martin Biron, who came down with the flu on Tuesday morning and did not dress for the game. Biron will also miss Thursday's game in Montreal (7:00 p.m., Comcast SportsNet), as he did not accompany the team on its afternoon charter. Antero Niittymaki will start in net for the second consecutive game.

One player who is back on the ice is Danny Briere. The still-injured Flyers center has started skating on his own, but only very lightly and said that he hopes to return to the club in early January from his groin problem.

"We're not talking about a comeback any time soon, but it's a step in the right direction," he said. "It felt pretty decent out there."

Briere spent about a half hour on the ice today, but did not do any stops and starts or quick changes of direction.

"One step at a time," he said.

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12-17-2008, 04:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Miss Mess View Post

You worry wayyy too much about the cap. Let the management deal with that fun ****, they'll handle it fine. Just enjoy the crazy offensive team we have right now, which will be even better when Briere is back.
It's really hard to not worry about the cap these days. Never before in hockey would such a thing force a GM's hand.

It goes beyond just management, think of the team you grow to love...That core/team may not stay around too long. So every 2 years your looking at a completely different team. Even as a pure fan/fun watcher of the game, it affects it.

That's just purely on a voyeur's side, I won't even get into the detrimental effect bad management can have on success...it's incalculable.

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12-17-2008, 06:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And, in fairness to this comment, Briere is one of the reasons our defense starts scrambling around a lot. He doesn't help them out much and it's a KILLER as a defenseman if the center isn't there for you. Now, I hated our defense at the start of the year, and still am not a huge fan of some aspects of it...but the addition of Carle has at least given us another guy back there that can both skate and pass.
True, he is **** at defense. I think even he knows that.
Though I won't understand how some can blame him for the poor start when almost every single player was playing crap defense at the time, not just the line he centers. I guess we need a scapegoat?

Yeah thank god Carle is here now, Timonen can't do everything haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
If you want to pimp Briere's upside...you have to give equal weight to the bad.
Hah! No one ever pimps his upside around here. It is almost always negative. I rarely see a positive statement about Briere on this board, but plenty on other boards. Same with Jones, and Biron. So much whining.
I dunno. People need to just deal with it; this is our team! Those three aren't going anywhere.lol

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12-17-2008, 06:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Miss Mess View Post
True, he is **** at defense. I think even he knows that.
Though I won't understand how some can blame him for the poor start when almost every single player was playing crap defense at the time, not just the line he centers. I guess we need a scapegoat?

Yeah thank god Carle is here now, Timonen can't do everything haha
No one I've seen has blamed him exclusively...or really at all. Biron was putrid at the start of the year, as was our defense as a whole. Coburn was absolutely awful, and still isn't playing like last year.

Quote:
Hah! No one ever pimps his upside around here. It is almost always negative. I rarely see a positive statement about Briere on this board, but plenty on other boards. Same with Jones, and Biron. So much whining.
I dunno. People need to deal with it; this is our team. Those three aren't going anywhere lol.
Which is why one should care if you feel his cap number is holding the team back.

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12-17-2008, 06:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No one I've seen has blamed him exclusively...or really at all. Biron was putrid at the start of the year, as was our defense as a whole. Coburn was absolutely awful, and still isn't playing like last year.
Plenty of people have insinuated it.
Yeah Coburn is struggling. He'll get back to where he was last year... right? Christ he better, or we're in trouble. It really doesn't make sense; all reporters talked about was how "in shape" Coburn was at the beginning of the year. Yet, his play is average so far. What is he doing differently?!

Quote:
Which is why one should care if you feel his cap number is holding the team back.
I see. If that's how you and the others in this thread feel, that's cool! Just remember that many fans don't agree and actually like him being on the team haha

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12-17-2008, 08:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No one I've seen has blamed him exclusively...or really at all. Biron was putrid at the start of the year, as was our defense as a whole. Coburn was absolutely awful, and still isn't playing like last year.



Which is why one should care if you feel his cap number is holding the team back.
Something about head injuries and Flyers players. They aren't the same for about a year after them. We saw it with Umberger, we're seeing it with Lupul and I think it's the same thing here with Coburn. Guys get their noggins rattled and they play with trepidation. Lupul seems to be coming around. Coburn is going to take some time. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but it seems to be something legit.....

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12-17-2008, 08:05 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Something about head injuries and Flyers players. They aren't the same for about a year after them. We saw it with Umberger, we're seeing it with Lupul and I think it's the same thing here with Coburn. Guys get their noggins rattled and they play with trepidation. Lupul seems to be coming around. Coburn is going to take some time. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but it seems to be something legit.....
I don't think Coburn's problem is trepidation. I think he's trying to do FAR too much. He's carrying the puck a lot more than I think he really should, and trying aggressive plays with the puck that aren't really smart.

Coburn needs to tone down his game a bit and play within himself some more.

I think Lupul, on the other hand, didn't have things go his way offensively at the start of the season and started to sulk. Something you see a lot of with "offensive" players in all sports. They react poorly in all areas of their game when the scoreboard isn't going their way.

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12-17-2008, 10:10 PM
  #113
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soft

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Originally Posted by Darius View Post
Hello Philthy fans, Pens fan here

Living out here in Philly, and being a teacher, I have many discussions about hockey with my students who are Flyers fans. Today I made an observation that ever since Briere left your line-up, you guys started winning. When he was in your line-up in October, it took you 7 or so games to get a win.

Is this a coincidence? I don't watch you guys play enough to determine this, so I'd like to know what your opinions of this are.

Thanks, and may we light you up like a Christmas tree tomorrow

In the spirit of the holidays, of course.
Briere is soft. The flyers have not missed him. Not five on five or on the power play. Carter is playing lights out. Briere is not a flyer. Bad signing Homer.

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12-17-2008, 10:38 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
Briere is soft. The flyers have not missed him. Not five on five or on the power play. Carter is playing lights out. Briere is not a flyer. Bad signing Homer.
I have trouble questioning Briere's heart... He is in no way a soft player and often mucks it up and stands up for teammates. The guy was a captain in buffalo after all

In no way is this team better without Briere... just one more guy that a defense needs to focus on.

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12-17-2008, 11:09 PM
  #115
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come on

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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
I have trouble questioning Briere's heart... He is in no way a soft player and often mucks it up and stands up for teammates. The guy was a captain in buffalo after all

In no way is this team better without Briere... just one more guy that a defense needs to focus on.
You got to be kidding. Briere plays on the outside. I wish he was still Captain of the Sabres. When Briere is on the ice five on five he is a liability.

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12-17-2008, 11:17 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
You got to be kidding. Briere plays on the outside. I wish he was still Captain of the Sabres. When Briere is on the ice five on five he is a liability.
Briere is a liability defensively but he more than makes up for that offensivley.

He's small and normally stays outside but he has no problem taking a hit to make the play. He is a great player and any team would be happy to have him (maybe not at that contract, but they would love to have him...)

This team is better with Briere.

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12-18-2008, 12:28 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
I have trouble questioning Briere's heart... He is in no way a soft player and often mucks it up and stands up for teammates. The guy was a captain in buffalo after all

In no way is this team better without Briere... just one more guy that a defense needs to focus on.
Questioning his heart? I think thats the only thing keeping that guy going. Go watch last years playoffs, he put it all on the ice.

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12-18-2008, 02:27 AM
  #118
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does the Flyers make the playoffs with the play of Briere and Biron down the stretch last season?
Probably not.

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12-18-2008, 03:13 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
does the Flyers make the playoffs with the play of Briere and Biron down the stretch last season?
Probably not.
This is a completely different year, with production coming from different areas. We didn't have Gagne and Carter rolling like they are.

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12-18-2008, 07:52 AM
  #120
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All this ******* Danny hate is getting old now. Dudes not even in the lineup and people still cannot stop bashing him. Yes, he sucks at defensive play, but I'll take his offensive ability anyday. He has 10 goals in what, 7 games or something? And must I bring up the playoffs last year? People were certainly loving him then. He isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, and it's time to accept that. NTC
I certainly don't like Jones, and I think his contract is straight up robbery, but at this point, if he can play good and defend his salary, then awesome. He's part of the team, and until he's gone, I'll live with it.

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12-18-2008, 10:45 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
You got to be kidding. Briere plays on the outside. I wish he was still Captain of the Sabres. When Briere is on the ice five on five he is a liability.
R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S

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All this ******* Danny hate is getting old now. Dudes not even in the lineup and people still cannot stop bashing him. Yes, he sucks at defensive play, but I'll take his offensive ability anyday. He has 10 goals in what, 7 games or something? And must I bring up the playoffs last year? People were certainly loving him then. He isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, and it's time to accept that. NTC
I certainly don't like Jones, and I think his contract is straight up robbery, but at this point, if he can play good and defend his salary, then awesome. He's part of the team, and until he's gone, I'll live with it.
Serioulsy, I agree completely. Philly just doesnt want skill, they want a team full of Trent Klatt's and Riley Cotes

And the guy gets plenty chippy in the corners and around the net when he needs to, especially with his stick

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12-18-2008, 11:49 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
Briere is soft. The flyers have not missed him. Not five on five or on the power play. Carter is playing lights out. Briere is not a flyer. Bad signing Homer.
Who votes this as worst comment of the year. Briere puts everything into his game. He has never changed that and always comes out on the ice prepared to play. He takes so many hits to make the play it's unreal. Those hits on forsberg, and lindros ended their careers. Briere is **** on defense and he knows it. That doesn't mean he plays with no heart.

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12-18-2008, 11:54 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Who votes this as worst comment of the year. Briere puts everything into his game. He has never changed that and always comes out on the ice prepared to play. He takes so many hits to make the play it's unreal. Those hits on forsberg, and lindros ended their careers. Briere is **** on defense and he knows it. That doesn't mean he plays with no heart.
yeah one of Brieres favorite plays is driving from behind the net and trying to jam the puck in. He doesnt care what D men are in the crease.

And Briere is not a bad signing, because having him slotted as the number 1 C took pressure off Carter and Richards and helped them blossom

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12-18-2008, 12:24 PM
  #124
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Exactly hover. Who's saying that briere isn't showing them how to improve their game too. Not being funny, but before briere was here, Richards and Carter wern't exactly power houses up front, and didn't look like they were going to be either.

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12-18-2008, 12:44 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
yeah one of Brieres favorite plays is driving from behind the net and trying to jam the puck in. He doesnt care what D men are in the crease.

And Briere is not a bad signing, because having him slotted as the number 1 C took pressure off Carter and Richards and helped them blossom
Possibly. The question is whether someone like Nylander could have done that as well--assuming he had avoided injury.

It's the most compelling reason to celebrate the signing, no doubt. However, it's also difficult to prove in either direction. I agree it certainly helped.

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