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Rangers youth movement? Don't beleive it

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Old
03-04-2004, 08:35 AM
  #1
p.l.f.
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Rangers youth movement? Don't beleive it

I dont think MSG would allow a Washington,Pittsburgh situation.

More like, lets free up as much salary as possible over the next week, then stock on new overpaid free agents and entry draft trades in the summer and try it all over again.
But based on Sather's judge of what the 'right' players or 'coach' should be,
can we expect anything different than before ?

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03-04-2004, 08:51 AM
  #2
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The sad state of this franchise is that because they are in
NY they can never truly build a competitive team to last
at least 10 yrs. To do that they have to go with youth, high
picks (i.e. Ottawa.) Which is unfortunate because of their deep
pockets they could afford the type of young stars most
small market teams have to let go because of money.

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03-04-2004, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOTTHEMONEY--SPENDIT
The sad state of this franchise is that because they are in
NY they can never truly build a competitive team to last
at least 10 yrs. To do that they have to go with youth, high
picks (i.e. Ottawa.) Which is unfortunate because of their deep
pockets they could afford the type of young stars most
small market teams have to let go because of money.
Its not the fans though. Its the idiot ownership, who feel it is an entertainment show rather than a hockey team. I do have horrible doubts about Sather running this rebuilding program.

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03-04-2004, 09:02 AM
  #4
Benji Frank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOTTHEMONEY--SPENDIT
The sad state of this franchise is that because they are in
NY they can never truly build a competitive team to last
at least 10 yrs. To do that they have to go with youth, high
picks (i.e. Ottawa.) Which is unfortunate because of their deep
pockets they could afford the type of young stars most
small market teams have to let go because of money.
I was thinking the same thing.... The Rangers would be the ultimate place to build an Oiler-like dynasty!!!

The Atlanta's, Ottawa's, Tampa Bay's, etc will all likely have to start selling off their guys in the next round of contract talks, but NY could probably hold their guys long after they've established themselves......

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03-04-2004, 09:36 AM
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The fans woudl accept a rebuilding. The fans on this board are almost demanding it.

What the Ownership is thinking, I don't know.

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03-04-2004, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
I dont think MSG would allow a Washington,Pittsburgh situation.

More like, lets free up as much salary as possible over the next week, then stock on new overpaid free agents and entry draft trades in the summer and try it all over again.
But based on Sather's judge of what the 'right' players or 'coach' should be,
can we expect anything different than before ?

your wrong if you think the fans won't go for a rebuild! the yankees did it! the yankees are way more popular than the rangers! there will be lean years but its a nessissary evil and must be done! just be happy you got a class act named brian leetch and enjoy! although i don't think some of you leaf fans deserve it with some of the comments made about leetch in the past few days! he's going to prove you all wrong and leave you with egg on your faces!

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Old
03-04-2004, 10:00 AM
  #7
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the ownership
not the fans

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03-04-2004, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
I dont think MSG would allow a Washington,Pittsburgh situation.

More like, lets free up as much salary as possible over the next week, then stock on new overpaid free agents and entry draft trades in the summer and try it all over again.
But based on Sather's judge of what the 'right' players or 'coach' should be,
can we expect anything different than before ?

And blah de blah de blah de blah!! When they won the Cup they were accused of buying it. When they were lavishing their players with obscene amounts of money they were accused of trying to buy the Cup. When they traded away three high priced vets (one of which was the team’s proudest product) for picks/prospects and positioning themselves for at least a top five pick in this year’s draft, they’re doing it so they can make room to try and buy the cup. They final took a step in the right direction, whether they continue the path only time will tell, but please spare us the anti-Ranger-Semitism already. They’re finally doing what you hockey masterminds said they should be doing and you’re still telling them they’re wrong. I don't want to incur the wrath of the HF boards faithful's with this message, I'm just asking for some you to cut them some slack and see where the pieces lie when the debris settles.

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03-04-2004, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
whether they continue the path only time will tell, but please spare us the anti-Ranger-Semitism already.

The Rangers are Jewish?? Didn't know that.. Klingsor will be pleased..

That does explain the "Passion of Jeff Toms"..

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03-04-2004, 11:19 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Davisian
The Rangers are Jewish?? Didn't know that.. Klingsor will be pleased..

That does explain the "Passion of Jeff Toms"..
News to me. Always thought of them as stupid ********, not cheap ********.

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03-04-2004, 11:49 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
I dont think MSG would allow a Washington,Pittsburgh situation.

More like, lets free up as much salary as possible over the next week, then stock on new overpaid free agents and entry draft trades in the summer and try it all over again.But based on Sather's judge of what the 'right' players or 'coach' should be, can we expect anything different than before ?
You're a troll. Nothing more than, nothing less than. It's clear what the Rangers are doing and that they are going into full rebuild mode. It's clear that the "buy every player" method has not worked for this team. It's clear that Sather's hands were tied (contrary to popular belief) and you can bet he was informed by the higher ups to get players like Lindros and Bure and Holik and Kasparitis. The beauty in all of this is that we will finally get to see what Sather does when it comes to rebuilding this team. Make no doubts about it, Sather probably went right to upper management and informed them that their plan isn't working and since they aren't hockey people, let a hockey person run the team for once. I'm also betting that Glen cited cases like the Ottawa Senators or the Tampa Bay Lightening as reasons why they should rebuild and be competitive for years. Don't believe for one minute that the Rangers are done dealing. I'm going out on a limb to say that Messier, Poti, Lindros and Malakhov will either be dealt out bought out of their deals. You're going to see players like Tjutin, Lundmark, Falardeau, Kondriatev, etc.....finally get a chance to show what they can do. It's clear that in New York, the problem was that politics played a big hand in how the team was run and that in order to justify the big contracts players were given, Sather and every coach the team has gone through was forced to play the players with the big deals. Can you honestly believe that Trottier wanted to play Malakhov? Can you believe that Trottier or Sather wanted to play Lindros? Do you think Sather wanted to give first minute ice time to an over the hill Messier? C'mon, Sather may have his faults, but he isn't stupid. I think he was blinded by the unlimited payroll that came with the Rangers, but I don't think he was ready to have upper management tell him how to spend his money. I say give it a few years and things will be OK.

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Old
03-04-2004, 11:55 AM
  #12
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its clear is it
ok

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Old
03-04-2004, 12:00 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
It's clear what the Rangers are doing and that they are going into full rebuild mode. It's clear that the "buy every player" method has not worked for this team.
Very highly doubtful..

Dolan has repeatedly said (long before the rebuilding started) that this was Sathers' team to run as he saw fit.. Sather has repeatedly said he would not have taken, nor kept the job if he was unable to run it the way he wanted..

As much as Dolan needs to go, the state of this team is all on Sather.. From his TERRIBLE choices in coaching, down to the smallest deal he made, it's all him..

He tried to have his cake and eat it to.. Thought he could shortcut to success by bringing in the big money guys, while trying to keep a few young role players to fill in..


He should not even be given the chance to rebuild, Smith was fired for less by now, but I guess Sather is sticking around.. He better not blow up the (extreemely belated) steps in the right direction he made yesterday..

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03-04-2004, 12:02 PM
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Sather isn't the problem. It's Dolan. Sather said he wanted to rebuild from day one and Dolan changed his plans. Neil Smith has said the same things - like when Dolan told him to sign Theo Fleury or else he'd be fired even though he didn't want to.

The Rangers are going nowhere with Dolan meddling. He's worse than Jerry Jones.

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03-04-2004, 12:04 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Very highly doubtful..

Dolan has repeatedly said (long before the rebuilding started) that this was Sathers' team to run as he saw fit.. Sather has repeatedly said he would not have taken, nor kept the job if he was unable to run it the way he wanted..

As much as Dolan needs to go, the state of this team is all on Sather.. From his TERRIBLE choices in coaching, down to the smallest deal he made, it's all him..

He tried to have his cake and eat it to.. Thought he could shortcut to success by bringing in the big money guys, while trying to keep a few young role players to fill in..


He should not even be given the chance to rebuild, Smith was fired for less by now, but I guess Sather is sticking around.. He better not blow up the (extreemely belated) steps in the right direction he made yesterday..
You really believe Dolan? Why is it that virtually nothing changed between Smith and Sather? Can anyone tell the difference in how the Rangers have been run?

It's 90% Dolan.

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03-04-2004, 12:24 PM
  #16
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I don't think that the Rangers are going into a full rebuild...and I can't really blame them for it...

it's just part of the busines.... in New York it's not just a hockey team - it's more so entertainment... we can say that the Rangers fans on this board want a rebuild, but it's not really a good barometer for what the market will want... the Rangers fans on this board - like anyone that really comes here - are basically diehard fans... huge markets aren't always geared around diehards.

I don't see what's wrong with what Sather is doing now even if he doesn't go into a rebuild mode... this lineup isn't doing anything, so he finally has the chance to just flush them out and actually use these assets to stockpile what has been a very weak farm and development system for a long time... and then they can go back into Free agent mode - not as aggressively - and still add pieces in a market that will be even more cautious of spending money...

I don't see how the Rangers don't win out of this kind of thinking... worst case scenario is that you have maybe as bad a team chemistry wise on the ice again next year with a new crops of high priced free agent market vets - but this time most of them will come at a lower price and they can actually add young players and quality prospects around that to build on...

I just don't see the Rangers spending the next 3-5 years building from the bottom up... but if they can finally acquire some decent stars (like guys like Alfreddson, Murray, Rolston, and others that could all be UFAs next season) and inject some actual quality youth in the mix they're much better off.

I think wishing for the Rangers to go into a complete rebuild is just a pipedream unless the CBA really changes drastically - and I can't see that happening... this isn't to single out the Rangers exclusively... I don't see teams like Detroit or Colorado, Dallas, Philly or Toronto go into complete rebuilds either... but the best of these teams are always the ones that have the quality prospects and young players developing in their systems as well - which the Rangers haven't had for a long time.

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03-04-2004, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcab2000
You really believe Dolan? Why is it that virtually nothing changed between Smith and Sather? Can anyone tell the difference in how the Rangers have been run?

It's 90% Dolan.
I ask you to recall what Smith was doing shortly before his demise.. Stopped making youth for vets deal, started shipping out vets, made the big splash with the Brendl/Lundmark deals and was starting to get the team younger.. Sather came in, and put a quick halt to that by acquiring Lindros, signing Malakhov over Schneider..

The reason nothing changed was because Sather finally got money, and didn't know what to do with it..

I don't believe Dolan, but abosolutely don't believe Sather either.. Both have blatantly lied to the fans, so why believe them?? As sumag and arrogant as Sather is, do you believe he'd be doing lil' Jimmy's bidding??

Nope..

It's 100% Sather..

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03-04-2004, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Davisian

It's 100% Sather..
Agree 100%

This is ALL Slats.He is the biggest double talking, spineless, excuse using Sbag I've ever seen in such a position.Some of the things he says and does really makes you think the guy has lost his marbles or is hitting the bottle way too hard.

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03-04-2004, 12:45 PM
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glen sather had a great rep before ny, and that rep was based on his ability to get the most he could out of older expensive players in trades. there he was trading goes LESS expensive, younger, or better players than the players he is trading this week. i think from here on out your seeing the team as sather would have built it. i dont forgive him for his part in the mess in ny, its just he is finally doing his job in a way that plays to his strengths. assuming he will continue in the nyr way, after these trades is ridiculous. it would be a shame to fire him now, considering he probably is one of the best gms in the league for building a younger faster team.

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03-04-2004, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
glen sather had a great rep before ny, and that rep was based on his ability to get the most he could out of older expensive players in trades. there he was trading goes LESS expensive, younger, or better players than the players he is trading this week. i think from here on out your seeing the team as sather would have built it. i dont forgive him for his part in the mess in ny, its just he is finally doing his job in a way that plays to his strengths. assuming he will continue in the nyr way, after these trades is ridiculous. it would be a shame to fire him now, considering he probably is one of the best gms in the league for building a younger faster team.
while i respect what you say, i ask this? he has had two above .500 teams in the last 14 years? he has done a horrible job of hiring coaches, has picked the wrong kind of free agents signings and hasn't really picked great prospects. i will watch will much skeptisism while this "rebuilding" goes on!

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03-04-2004, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
glen sather had a great rep before ny, and that rep was based on his ability to get the most he could out of older expensive players in trades. there he was trading goes LESS expensive, younger, or better players than the players he is trading this week. i think from here on out your seeing the team as sather would have built it. i dont forgive him for his part in the mess in ny, its just he is finally doing his job in a way that plays to his strengths. assuming he will continue in the nyr way, after these trades is ridiculous. it would be a shame to fire him now, considering he probably is one of the best gms in the league for building a younger faster team.
while i respect what you say, i ask this? he has had two above .500 teams in the last 14 years? he has done a horrible job of hiring coaches, has picked the wrong kind of free agents signings and hasn't really picked great prospects. so why does he still get this reputation of being a great gm? i will watch will much skeptisism while this "rebuilding" goes on!

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03-04-2004, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sickboy35
while i respect what you say, i ask this? he has had two above .500 teams in the last 14 years? he has done a horrible job of hiring coaches, has picked the wrong kind of free agents signings and hasn't really picked great prospects. i will watch will much skeptisism while this "rebuilding" goes on!
i can understand that. i suspect he wont be around to see the completion of the rebuild, hell probably get fired right before it starts to work. its true he didnt choose the best coach for the job, but who knows what went on behind the scenes? maybe hitch did, said ,or demanded something that made him seem not worth it at the time? robinson wouldnt touch this team with a 10 foot pole (maybe he would now?) - im not sure who in their right mind really wouldve done it. i agree the free agents werent the wisest, especially in hindsight...but i think a lot of the moves were ones anyone in his shoes wouldve done. devries, holik, and kasparaitus were the right people to sign for this team - the money was the problem.....but do you think anyone would come to this team cheap? nyr had to outbid significantly to get people to go there. i just think sather inherited a mess he couldnt fix, and probably wished he couldve done this the whole time.


Last edited by bleedgreen: 03-04-2004 at 01:03 PM.
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03-04-2004, 02:02 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
I dont think MSG would allow a Washington,Pittsburgh situation.

More like, lets free up as much salary as possible over the next week, then stock on new overpaid free agents and entry draft trades in the summer and try it all over again.
But based on Sather's judge of what the 'right' players or 'coach' should be,
can we expect anything different than before ?
Personally, I think they are freeing up money to get A-Rod from the Yankees.

On a serious note, the NY Sports Stations (ESPN & WFAN) were ripping Sather this morning (mostly for the Leetch deal). Michael Kay called Sather "a Carpetbagger" that spit in the face of Ranger fans.

Another of their big complaint being that after 4 straight years of not making the playoffs (Sather's reign ony) & 7 in a row, why all of a sudden rebuild now? That will also mean that Sather will have to be kept to do the rebuilding becuase how can Dolan just give this mess to a new GM.

It's going to be a tough time for NY fans.

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03-04-2004, 07:12 PM
  #24
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no offense to anyone, but anyone that thinks that ranger fans won't stand for a complete rebuild has absolutely zero clue about the situation...ranger management might not, but the fans not only will tolerate it, we are begging for it (and most have been for years)...

ranger fans sat thru 54 years without a cup, ranger fans have sat thru the last 7 years with absolutely no hope that things would ever get better and continued to show up to games.

so to even suggestion the notion that the fans wouldn't stand by for a 2-3 year knowing that things would get better is both a completely ignorant statment and an utter insult to ranger fans...say what you want about us, but the one thing you can't question is our loyalty and the fact that we will stick with the team no matter how bad things get

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03-04-2004, 07:27 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by NYR469
no offense to anyone, but anyone that thinks that ranger fans won't stand for a complete rebuild has absolutely zero clue about the situation...ranger management might not, but the fans not only will tolerate it, we are begging for it (and most have been for years)...

ranger fans sat thru 54 years without a cup, ranger fans have sat thru the last 7 years with absolutely no hope that things would ever get better and continued to show up to games.

so to even suggestion the notion that the fans wouldn't stand by for a 2-3 year knowing that things would get better is both a completely ignorant statment and an utter insult to ranger fans...say what you want about us, but the one thing you can't question is our loyalty and the fact that we will stick with the team no matter how bad things get
so you're saying that if there is a rebuild, then it won't affect attendence, tv ratings, merchandise sales, etc over the next 2-3 years??

it's a huge market, and it might not... maybe they still pack the gardens... but I would think that it's a market that is still geared towards star attractions, and with so many other options in NY there might be better things to do than watch a Pittsburg like team on the ice for a few years...

I know the real hockey fans would love it - it makes sense... but what about the bottom line - does the franchise stand to make more money, lose money, or stand the same when all revenue avenues are considered if they go into a rebuild??

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