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Who's doubting the Flyers now?

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Old
12-19-2008, 04:47 PM
  #251
Carterfor60
 
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Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
He officially got put on the list. I couldn't take it anymore. For someone who wants to try to call out Jester and a lot of others here as refusing to be wrong, he sure as hell doesn't do a good job himself. Arrogance in its most beautiful form. I'm also pretty sure it's JXC under a different name. Wouldn't surprise me.
I'm proud to be on that list. Thanks. I'm on record on this forum in admitting I'm wrong when I am. I have no issue with stating that I'm wrong, when I am. I've proven that. Obviously your upset when your attempt to call me out, came up woefully short and backfired. To the point where you admitted you nothing about systems. And therefore was out of line in criticizing anyone for their statements on that subject. You couldn't even answer a simple question of why teams dump and chase.

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Old
12-19-2008, 04:50 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Seriously dont even bother man. Hes never going to admit hes wrong and when he starts to realize hes wrong about something he shifts the subject. Kind of like how he shifted the subject to the Torpedo thing. He bends and shifts words to work in his favor all the time And yes he does have his lapdog followers around here that im convinced either just want to stay on his good side so they dont run into a confrontation with him or they simply buy every word he says just because its long winded and seems to be the truth by providing irrelevant facts and statements. If you take a quote thats straight forward he says your interpreting it wrong and thats not what the person meant when he said it but if you take a quote that is obviously not what the person meant he simply says, this is what he said, thats what he meant. Its pointless to argue with him, Ive learned to just say what you have to say and move on. The guy is obviously some guy who literally has nothing better to do than start fights with people to get attention on a message board and carry on about it for days until the other person simply gets tired of going in circles and him avoiding the arguement and stops fighting, then he thinks because he got the last word he must be right, and the winner. the things he argues are constantly about statistics or quotes which he uses to back himself up but he completely ignores the fact that stats are very often skewed by other factors. Like when he said it was the first time the flyers lost 10 games in a row in their history and while that is correct and is a fact we also never had 4 on 4 overtime and shootouts until recently which obviously promotes more goals and zero ties. both 10 game losing streaks included overtime and shootout losses by the way. So really man, just stop, its stupid and its a waste of time and people are only going to jump on you for being new around here and back im up. The people that would back you up dont because they simply dont want to get involved because they dont feel like getting sucked in. Its fine for him to go around questioning peoples intelligence but if you take any personal shots at him he gets so offended and makes it seem like hes been trying to stay on topic while you havent. I told him one time how I played college hockey and he basically went on to tell me how college athletes are stupid and that I have a low level of intelligence while he doesnt know a thing about me. Like i said, just let it go and join the discussion with less annoying people. Just look around at thread, they very often come to an end when he joins because people jsut dont feel like dealing with him. This thread was a regular convo and turned into a 2 man show because people are sick of reading his novels.
Extremely well said. And all great points. But he's not getting away with it anymore. Trust me on that.

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Old
12-19-2008, 04:56 PM
  #253
Cinerary
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Originally Posted by Carterfor60 View Post
But he's not getting away with it anymore. Trust me on that.


Oh, the drama!

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Old
12-19-2008, 04:58 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Carterfor60 View Post
It's a matter of opinion, that using elements of a system is not using the system. It's your opinion that that's not using the system. It's not mine. If your using elements of the system, your using the system. Your opinion, is not a fact.
"elements of" means parts, not the whole.

Quote:
sys⋅tem –noun
1. an assemblage or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unitary whole: a mountain system; a railroad system.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/system

Bowman was using a part of the Torpedo System...he wasn't using the Torpedo System, because the "unitary whole" couldn't be used in the NHL. And I guess this was a semantics argument...because apparently you don't know what "system" means.

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Originally Posted by Carterfor60 View Post
And they have no need for such tools. Another example of how your smarter, huh?
Actually, they do. Teams have started to invest heavily in human capital for statistical knowledge in all sports. It's had the largest effect on Baseball, for obvious reasons.

Did you miss the whole fall out of Moneyball?

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Old
12-19-2008, 04:59 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Cinerary View Post


Oh, the drama!
It really is exciting, isn't it?

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Old
12-19-2008, 05:03 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Carterfor60...you need to throw in the towel on this one. You had plenty of reasonable things to say in regards to the "no system" argument, but regarding this torpedo issue...what Bowman said in that article is quite clear. Jester's points on this one have been far more valid than your own, whether he has been arrogant about it or not. And besides, it's not like you've been free of arrogance at times in some of your responses.

How about you both just agree that Scotty Bowman at one time used "part" of the torpedo? Then you can shake hands and go back to your corners.
I appreciate the viewpoint. At no time did I argue the points that Jester made with regards to the effectiveness of the torpedo in the NHL. I agree with all of that. Bowman did indeed use the Torpedo in the NHL. That was my only point. And he was wrong in stating that he didn't. Just as he is with the Jones situation, and the comments he made on Stevens. He's entitled to his opinion. But so is everyone else. And he has little respect for other's opinions. My arrogance is brought on by his, and his ridiculous spin. I'm done with the Torpedo discussion.

We'll now continue the original subject thread, which Jester conveniently moved away from.

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Old
12-19-2008, 05:14 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I like beer.
Awesome return, missed ya.

Oh yeah, I changed my name while you were gone.

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Old
12-19-2008, 05:18 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
"elements of" means parts, not the whole.
Still doesn't mean that it's not used. Your opinion, is not a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/system

Bowman was using a part of the Torpedo System...he wasn't using the Torpedo System, because the "unitary whole" couldn't be used in the NHL. And I guess this was a semantics argument...because apparently you don't know what "system" means.
More nonsense introduced by you, that's irrelevant. It's your opinion that only using elements of a system, is not using the system. Your opinion is not fact. And you've yet to back up your stance and provide any proof of your opinions. You need to hold yourself to the same standards that you hold others. I won't hold my breath.

Here's a definition for you

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Baseball, for obvious reasons.

Did you miss the whole fall out of Moneyball?
Here is your original statement, taken form one of your posts


"EDIT: And the point was that most professional athletes don't understand the first thing about statistical or probabilistic analysis...Not even saying they're stupid, just that they're not educated with such tools in the mental tool box."

Obviously what your missing is that the Athletes themselves don't need to be educated, nor understand "statistical or probabilistic analysis" They have people who can compile that data, and implement it into the team for them. It's just another example of how you like to try and raise yourself above others, because you think your smarter.

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Old
12-19-2008, 05:27 PM
  #259
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Do you two gentleman mind if I take a seat and enjoy the show?


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Old
12-19-2008, 08:01 PM
  #260
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boobs

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Old
12-19-2008, 08:29 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Who. Cares.
I. Responded. To. Him. Is. That. OK?

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:27 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Awesome return, missed ya.

Oh yeah, I changed my name while you were gone.
I know that. I know all.

Except about the torpedo system.

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:59 PM
  #263
CharlieGirl
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I know that. I know all.

Except about the torpedo system.
Val, you're such an ass. I love it!

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:09 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
Val, you're such an ass. I love it!
Sorry, but I don't need a moderator interrupting me when I am trying to better myself as a hockey fan by learning about the torpedo system. I thought this board was a place of learning and discussion. Learning and discussion necessary to better ourselves as hockey fans. But I guess not. At least not to you, Charlie_Girl. Well, you can take your interruptions and your unnecessary underscore and leave them at the door, Missy.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:18 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I. Responded. To. Him. Is. That. OK?
Oh I see what you did there.

But keep on tooting your own horn, I'm enjoying it.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:39 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Oh I see what you did there.

But keep on tooting your own horn, I'm enjoying it.

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Old
12-19-2008, 11:16 PM
  #267
JXC
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
Just because JXC has different opinions doesnt make the guy a dickhole, you know?
THANKS DUDE!!!

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Old
12-19-2008, 11:19 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
He officially got put on the list. I couldn't take it anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
I listen to everybody's thoughts and ideas on here.
Odd.

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Old
12-20-2008, 12:23 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Oh I see what you did there.

But keep on tooting your own horn, I'm enjoying it.
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I never had a problem with you, did I?


How is saying that I responded to him tooting my own horn?

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Old
12-20-2008, 12:46 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I never had a problem with you, did I?


How is saying that I responded to him tooting my own horn?
I don't know, I came into the thread expecting to read more of the debate on systems and you're talking about your GPA? Seemed odd.

Forget I said anything, my apologies.

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Old
12-20-2008, 01:54 AM
  #271
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Can i be known as one of the quiet guys on this site?

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Old
12-20-2008, 02:25 AM
  #272
Shadow Flyer
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Originally Posted by Carterfor60 View Post
It's a matter of opinion, that using elements of a system is not using the system. It's your opinion that that's not using the system. It's not mine. If your using elements of the system, your using the system. Your opinion, is not a fact.
No, its not opinion. When only using elements of a system, you are doing just that, only using elements. How is that an opinion and not a fact? If I run a west coast offense in football, and see a wishbone team run something I like, I may borrow elements from that teams' system and incorporate it into my own. But that damn sure doesn't mean I'm running the wishbone.

College football is actually a perfect example. Take Florida. They run what is widely called the "spread" offense. Out of this offense, they use a multitude of elements from various different systems, such as the option, wishbone, west coast, etc. But they can't be labeled as any one of those systems because they only use elements of all of them, hence its a hybrid.

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Originally Posted by Carterfor60 View Post
There are different ways of playing a 1-2-2 neutral zone trap, but it's still a trap.
You can use any form of trap you want, but if its not the 1-2-2 trap, then its not the 1-2-2 trap. If you are not using the 1-2-2 alignment, then its something different, whether you are borrowing elements from it or not. See how this works?

I mean, this is not rocket science. You are either using the system in its entirety, or using elements of that system. You are doing one or the other, but not both. So, you are either playing the torpedo system as it was intended, or you are borrowing from that system and making a hybrid.

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12-20-2008, 08:38 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
No, its not opinion. When only using elements of a system, you are doing just that, only using elements. How is that an opinion and not a fact? If I run a west coast offense in football, and see a wishbone team run something I like, I may borrow elements from that teams' system and incorporate it into my own. But that damn sure doesn't mean I'm running the wishbone.
Yes it is an opinion. When you are using elements of a system, you are indeed using that system. If you run a west coast offense, and then run elements of a wishbone, your are then using the wishbone. Simple common sense.

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Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
College football is actually a perfect example. Take Florida. They run what is widely called the "spread" offense. Out of this offense, they use a multitude of elements from various different systems, such as the option, wishbone, west coast, etc. But they can't be labeled as any one of those systems because they only use elements of all of them, hence its a hybrid.
A team is not limited to using one system. Just because you use more than one, doesn't mean you aren't using a particular system, when you choose to use it. More common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
You can use any form of trap you want, but if its not the 1-2-2 trap, then its not the 1-2-2 trap. If you are not using the 1-2-2 alignment, then its something different, whether you are borrowing elements from it or not. See how this works?
There are different ways of playing a 1-2-2 trap. Different teams, do it in different ways. It doesn't change the fact that they're playing a 1-2-2 trap, regardless of how they play it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
I mean, this is not rocket science. You are either using the system in its entirety, or using elements of that system. You are doing one or the other, but not both. So, you are either playing the torpedo system as it was intended, or you are borrowing from that system and making a hybrid.
This is all strictly your opinion. Just because you not using the system in it's entirety, doesn't mean your not using the system.

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Old
12-20-2008, 09:06 AM
  #274
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Two things...

1.) Common sense is really not all that common. And no Carterfor60, I'm not siding with you.

2.) Opinions are like bums. We all have one, some are just nicer than others.

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12-20-2008, 10:04 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Carterfor60 View Post
Yes it is an opinion. When you are using elements of a system, you are indeed using that system. If you run a west coast offense, and then run elements of a wishbone, your are then using the wishbone. Simple common sense.
Your argument, taken in its entirety, is like saying that a gay man can get railed in the ass by dudes his entire life and be the center of attention at every bath house, truck stop, and airport restroom (I guess that makes him Republican) but then, one magical night when the stars are aligned, get drunk off of his (war torn) ass on one too many bikinitinis and then let some fat chick in a Penguins t-shirt give him a handjob in the parking lot of an Applebee's and that suddenly makes that man not gay.

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