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NYR-NYI proposal....

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Old
03-04-2004, 09:55 AM
  #1
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NYR-NYI proposal....

Rucinsky+Simon/Barnaby+Mironov for the Isles 1st and 3rd rounders.


NONE of the NYR's have big money owed them(Rosie only made 1.7, simon 1.5, Boris 1.5 or so) so the $$$ side is a nonfactor.

Rosie would be a great addition on one of your top 2 lines and has been consistently one of the NYR's best forwards who plays a very well wounded game.He's a +18 or so on the NYR's so that says a hell of alot.Great defensively, great wheels, above average passer, great PKer, and he works the boards well.He along w/Wieght were great in the PO's for the Blues last year.This guy brings alot to the table.

Simon/Barnaby would also bring some much needed grit but also size with some skill as well.Both guys can play the game as well as bring the physical play and wither would look awesome on a line w/Scratchard.Barnaby is a guy you need in a tough 7 game series, especially against a team like the Leafs or Flyers.

Mironov would add a physical element to your 3rd pair and would replace Cairns who will get burned repatedly by a team like Ott in the PO's just like he was picked on last year in that series.Boris is a good mobile dman who does everything pretty well and also had been the NYR's best crease clearer, something the Isles desperately need.

I think it is a move the Isles would have to seriously consider unless they are happy to just make it to the show before bowing out meekly.

BTW-one of the few brightspots about the Leetch trade is that he makes it up there just in time to play against his favorite team tonight.

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03-04-2004, 09:58 AM
  #2
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r u mad a 1st and a 3rd rnd pick for thsoe guys u cant be serious lmao i would give u anything less then a 6th lol even a 5th is asking to much

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03-04-2004, 10:02 AM
  #3
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I would have thought you guys would want to hold on to Barnaby.

Sather is jerk for trading that Islander killer to the Isles likely 1st round oponent.

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03-04-2004, 10:12 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isles4ever
r u mad a 1st and a 3rd rnd pick for thsoe guys u cant be serious lmao i would give u anything less then a 6th lol even a 5th is asking to much
Ask somebody more informed then yourself which leaves plenty of people to ask obviously what deadline moves need to be made to address obvious Islander shortcomings and they'll tell you you have to give to get so unless you are willing to get bounced in 5 games again in the 1st smarten up.

You may not like the NYR proposla and that fine but if you are happy with another deadline where Randy Robataille is your big pickup :p while EACH of the 7 team going into the playoffs have significantly upgarded and filled needs.

This are moves teams make when they are SERIOUS about accomplishing anything come PO time.

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03-04-2004, 10:12 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by dvaske
I would have thought you guys would want to hold on to Barnaby.

Sather is jerk for trading that Islander killer to the Isles likely 1st round oponent.

I was thinking the same thing. Just when I was getting really excited about our chances in the first round, leetch goes to toronto. :mad:

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03-04-2004, 11:11 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Ask somebody more informed then yourself which leaves plenty of people to ask obviously what deadline moves need to be made to address obvious Islander shortcomings and they'll tell you you have to give to get so unless you are willing to get bounced in 5 games again in the 1st smarten up.

You may not like the NYR proposla and that fine but if you are happy with another deadline where Randy Robataille is your big pickup :p while EACH of the 7 team going into the playoffs have significantly upgarded and filled needs.

This are moves teams make when they are SERIOUS about accomplishing anything come PO time.
Seems the Devils are serious when they won the cup last year and usuallly pickup players like Pascal Rheaume or Grant Marshall to do it at the deadline. It's not about names, it's about playing as a team.

One look at the Rangers should tell you that big names mean nothing.

A first rounder and a third rounder for four players who will all be unrestricted this summer?

Yes, the Islanders will take all four of these players if you trade your first and third round picks with them.

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03-04-2004, 11:18 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Seems the Devils are serious when they won the cup last year and usuallly pickup players like Pascal Rheaume or Grant Marshall to do it at the deadline. It's not about names, it's about playing as a team.

One look at the Rangers should tell you that big names mean nothing.

A first rounder and a third rounder for four players who will all be unrestricted this summer?

Yes, the Islanders will take all four of these players if you trade your first and third round picks with them.

Oh, I forgot, you have a roster and system similar to that of the Devils and would only require minor tweaking like a Rheame or Grant Marshall to bring the Cup to LI.What was I thinking.Sorry.

Looks like your going to be content with another Robataille deadline.Enjoy.

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03-04-2004, 11:28 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Oh, I forgot, you have a roster and system similar to that of the Devils and would only require minor tweaking like a Rheame or Grant Marshall to bring the Cup to LI.What was I thinking.Sorry.

Looks like your going to be content with another Robataille deadline.Enjoy.
The Islanders do have a system similar to New Jersey and Tom Renney's system is patterned after the Devils as well.

Isles have a roster (less Stevens) on defense that not only can play with New Jersey but are 3-1-0-1 in five games against them when Stevens was healthy.

What are the Isles six or eight point behind New Jersey without Yashin/Parrish and with Scatchard and Peca playing hurt?

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03-04-2004, 11:40 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
The Islanders do have a system similar to New Jersey and Tom Renney's system is patterned after the Devils as well.

Isles have a roster (less Stevens) on defense that not only can play with New Jersey but are 3-1-0-1 in five games against them when Stevens was healthy.

What are the Isles six or eight point behind New Jersey without Yashin/Parrish and with Scatchard and Peca playing hurt?
1st of all the Devils of this year are not the Devils from last year and patterning yourself off of it doesn't mean you execute it as well but since your so confident in what you have already go with it and we'll see how far it gets you.

The teams above you ALL, I repeat ALL got stronger in the last few days and the Isles had obvious shortcomings before this so stay with what you got and get bounced in 4 or 5 again.

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03-04-2004, 11:58 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
1st of all the Devils of this year are not the Devils from last year and patterning yourself off of it doesn't mean you execute it as well but since your so confident in what you have already go with it and we'll see how far it gets you.

The teams above you ALL, I repeat ALL got stronger in the last few days and the Isles had obvious shortcomings before this so stay with what you got and get bounced in 4 or 5 again.
Obvious shortcommings? Isles have about four losses in the last twenty three games.

Isles have winning records vs Ottawa, New Jersey and Toronto. Isles had points (no wins) in all four games vs Boston. Montreal won their home games with the Isles and lost the Coliseum game. Isles are 1-1 vs Tampa. Isles are only 1-3 against a much different Flyer team than the last time they played and all those games were close.

Seems the only team the Isles cannot beat are the division doormats.

J.R you just hope for the Isles to get bouced in four of five. But keep in mind,
New York hockey badly needs the Islanders to make a run deep into the playoffs and get the area excited again about our sport as it was against Toronto two years ago.

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03-04-2004, 12:13 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Rucinsky+Simon/Barnaby+Mironov for the Isles 1st and 3rd rounders.


NONE of the NYR's have big money owed them(Rosie only made 1.7, simon 1.5, Boris 1.5 or so) so the $$$ side is a nonfactor.

Rosie would be a great addition on one of your top 2 lines and has been consistently one of the NYR's best forwards who plays a very well wounded game.He's a +18 or so on the NYR's so that says a hell of alot.Great defensively, great wheels, above average passer, great PKer, and he works the boards well.He along w/Wieght were great in the PO's for the Blues last year.This guy brings alot to the table.

Simon/Barnaby would also bring some much needed grit but also size with some skill as well.Both guys can play the game as well as bring the physical play and wither would look awesome on a line w/Scratchard.Barnaby is a guy you need in a tough 7 game series, especially against a team like the Leafs or Flyers.

Mironov would add a physical element to your 3rd pair and would replace Cairns who will get burned repatedly by a team like Ott in the PO's just like he was picked on last year in that series.Boris is a good mobile dman who does everything pretty well and also had been the NYR's best crease clearer, something the Isles desperately need.

I think it is a move the Isles would have to seriously consider unless they are happy to just make it to the show before bowing out meekly.

BTW-one of the few brightspots about the Leetch trade is that he makes it up there just in time to play against his favorite team tonight.

I had trouble posting this the 1st time,so I'll try again.


Isles aren't a team that would pay a goon $1.5m,so Simon or Barnaby would be a short term rental.
32 yr old Rucinsky's 13 goals aren't appealing enough to have him taking icetime away from a younger,cheaper forward who could be gaining playoff experience and I'd rather see the isles rent Odelein for a pick,then Mironov.

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03-04-2004, 12:46 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Ask somebody more informed then yourself which leaves plenty of people to ask obviously what deadline moves need to be made to address obvious Islander shortcomings and they'll tell you you have to give to get so unless you are willing to get bounced in 5 games again in the 1st smarten up.

You may not like the NYR proposla and that fine but if you are happy with another deadline where Randy Robataille is your big pickup :p while EACH of the 7 team going into the playoffs have significantly upgarded and filled needs.

This are moves teams make when they are SERIOUS about accomplishing anything come PO time.
Wow! You might consider trading for a punctuation mark.

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03-04-2004, 12:58 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I had trouble posting this the 1st time,so I'll try again.


Isles aren't a team that would pay a goon $1.5m,so Simon or Barnaby would be a short term rental.
32 yr old Rucinsky's 13 goals aren't appealing enough to have him taking icetime away from a younger,cheaper forward who could be gaining playoff experience and I'd rather see the isles rent Odelein for a pick,then Mironov.

They are ALL rentals as they are all UFA'S.

And Barnaby and Simon are just goons huh Crew?

As for Rosie and his 13 goals you are underating the all around play he brings with his wheels, solid defensive play and versatility to play on any line and thrive.

He was awesome in last yrs PO's for the Blues as any of their fans can tell you.

Bottom line is the Isles will go out like lambs as currently made up so being that you guys are all OK with making no moves to improve and address glaring holes more power to you.

This is the problem with the Isles.They maxed out their payroll w/Yashin-Peca and their top 4 and have zero room to add and as far as prospects you are too thin and too far away from legit contention to justify a move like Toronto or Detroit pull off to fill holes before the playoffs.

You'll be on the golf course a couple of days after us.We'll keep the brews cold.


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03-04-2004, 01:01 PM
  #14
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Ranger won't trade anyone to the Isles. It was reported that NJ offered a deal to get Leetch and MAlakhov, and the Rangers said no b/c of public relations issues. Last thing, in this horrendous year for them, is to deal someone to the Isles to haunt them or make them better. And 3 team deals is doubtful with NYR and NYI are concerned. So....ain't gonna happen, in my opinion.

But damn, Isles sure could use Weimer for a playoff run.

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03-04-2004, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dvaske
Wow! You might consider trading for a punctuation mark.

You got me there!!

Good one big guy.

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03-04-2004, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
You got me there!!

Good one big guy.
Just messing with ya. My spelling/grammar are just as bad sometimes. :p

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03-04-2004, 01:15 PM
  #17
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C'mon, JR, this is a silly conversation and you know it. The Isles and Rangers are not going to make any major trades, so it is all a moot point.

Besides, you've offered a handful of marginal assets to an organization that has badly depleted it's youth, and expected us to sacrifice valuable picks in the process. Do you really believe that Rucinsky, Mironov, or Simon (none of whom have ever won anything, or ever showed a hint of success in the post season) would make a difference? Of all the players you mentioned, I think the only one who the Isles would even dress regularly would be Simon.

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03-04-2004, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch
Ranger won't trade anyone to the Isles. It was reported that NJ offered a deal to get Leetch and MAlakhov, and the Rangers said no b/c of public relations issues. Last thing, in this horrendous year for them, is to deal someone to the Isles to haunt them or make them better. And 3 team deals is doubtful with NYR and NYI are concerned. So....ain't gonna happen, in my opinion.

But damn, Isles sure could use Weimer for a playoff run.

Absolutely. The Devils and the Blueskirts have apparently never been trade partners. I think the Isles and blueskirts had a few deals in the 32 years, but they were minor draft picks and such. Players have played for both teams (ferraro, flatley, lafontaine, nemchinov, cairns, healy to name a few), but those players were either free agent signings, waivers, or traded from different teams. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think there have even been any three way deals involving the Isles and the rags.

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03-04-2004, 01:24 PM
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JR, I'd love Simon, as you probably know, and despite his numerous shortcomings, Mironov would be a solid 3rd pair dman for the stretch run. Barnaby would be interesting, but his relationship with Peca may make his acquisition a non-starter. Rucinsky, as you noted, has clearly been one of NYR's best forwards this year and I've always thought he would look nice on Yashin's wing. He is quick and offers a more polished (talented) version of what a Bates or Blake would bring (and what is essential) for #79's linemates: speed and the ability to go with the puck.

Alas, you will be hard-pressed to find many NYI fans on this board that will even consider the option of the team moving players in an effort at taking a serious run this spring. For three years, the general feeling (not all posters) is that "we're building a team for the future." Same exact mantra is popular now as in 2001. And still, no timetable for that "future". What is lost is the concept that when you have a chance to win, you take it. And, while I know you likely don't agree, and I know many NYI fans don't either, watching this team closely this year, they are different, improved over other recent versions. They could be a tough playoff team, with the right moves, breaks.

As such, your offer fits clear needs: size up front, depth on the backline. Personally, I'd be very happy paring the deal down to Simon for a #2 pick.

But, unfortunately, IMO, a lot of folks don't want to part with any assets, either on this current hall of fame roster, or "futures" that may very well never step on NHL ice.

As a fan, you get the team you deserve, I say.

Different opinions for different people.

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03-04-2004, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
JR, I'd love Simon, as you probably know, and despite his numerous shortcomings, Mironov would be a solid 3rd pair dman for the stretch run. Barnaby would be interesting, but his relationship with Peca may make his acquisition a non-starter. Rucinsky, as you noted, has clearly been one of NYR's best forwards this year and I've always thought he would look nice on Yashin's wing. He is quick and offers a more polished (talented) version of what a Bates or Blake would bring (and what is essential) for #79's linemates: speed and the ability to go with the puck.

Alas, you will be hard-pressed to find many NYI fans on this board that will even consider the option of the team moving players in an effort at taking a serious run this spring. For three years, the general feeling (not all posters) is that "we're building a team for the future." Same exact mantra is popular now as in 2001. And still, no timetable for that "future". What is lost is the concept that when you have a chance to win, you take it. And, while I know you likely don't agree, and I know many NYI fans don't either, watching this team closely this year, they are different, improved over other recent versions. They could be a tough playoff team, with the right moves, breaks.

As such, your offer fits clear needs: size up front, depth on the backline. Personally, I'd be very happy paring the deal down to Simon for a #2 pick.

But, unfortunately, IMO, a lot of folks don't want to part with any assets, either on this current hall of fame roster, or "futures" that may very well never step on NHL ice.

As a fan, you get the team you deserve, I say.

Different opinions for different people.
I think you've gotten the team that logic deserves. A team badly depleted by years of impatiently giving up on youngsters.

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03-04-2004, 01:34 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
C'mon, JR, this is a silly conversation and you know it. The Isles and Rangers are not going to make any major trades, so it is all a moot point.

Besides, you've offered a handful of marginal assets to an organization that has badly depleted it's youth, and expected us to sacrifice valuable picks in the process. Do you really believe that Rucinsky, Mironov, or Simon (none of whom have ever won anything, or ever showed a hint of success in the post season) would make a difference? Of all the players you mentioned, I think the only one who the Isles would even dress regularly would be Simon.

Why is it silly?The NYR's need to get the best possible return for what they are offering and if the Isles were the high bid why wouldn't they trade w/one another?

This isn't Leetch we're talking about here but rather playoff rentals of guys who are hardly long time rangers.

And the teams had no problem pulling the trigger on the Palffy deal before Bettman killed it.

As Trotts points out the package I proposed would greatly benefit the NYI's chances of making any noise come PO time and the proposed return is fair in todays market.

Some of you guys act like you have a young Panther team here when in fact all your key players save Rick are IN their prime now, not 2-3 yrs from now.

You guys are happy with the current group and think they can do some damage be my guest and see where it gets you.

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03-04-2004, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Why is it silly?The NYR's need to get the best possible return for what they are offering and if the Isles were the high bid why wouldn't they trade w/one another?

This isn't Leetch we're talking about here but rather playoff rentals of guys who are hardly long time rangers.

And the teams had no problem pulling the trigger on the Palffy deal before Bettman killed it.

As Trotts points out the package I proposed would greatly benefit the NYI's chances of making any noise come PO time and the proposed return is fair in todays market.

Some of you guys act like you have a young Panther team here when in fact all your key players save Rick are IN their prime now, not 2-3 yrs from now.

You guys are happy with the current group and think they can do some damage be my guest and see where it gets you.


Isles owner has said several times in the last 12-18 months he will build slowly with the youngsters.Ironically he points out the ranger way of building a franchise as the way he will avoid.Isles would want players who'd be on the roster for several yrs,not several months if they were moving high picks.

Yashin-25 yr old Kvasha-23 yr old Weinhandl
24/25 yr old Asham-Peca-26/27 yr old Parrish
Blake-Scatchard-23 yr old Hunter
Manlow-24 yr old Papineau-23 yr old Godard

25 yr old Kvasha has drawn praise from analysts/writers outside the isles organization for the strides in his game this season.So have 22 yr old DiPietro and 23 yr old Hunter.

Isles have several promising defensive prospects,at least two of whom(Caldwell and Gervais) will fight for a roster spot next season.Gervais almost won a spot this season and Caldwell's having a very impressive senior season at the Univ. of Denver.I expect the isles are waiting to see how the new cba looks before trying to lockup 2 of their top 4 d-men longterm and the 2 will be dealt before they reach unrestricted free agency.

Go to USA Today's Kyle Woodlief's May 2003 predraft article and see how he raves about the talented 18 yr old E.Tunik who the isles took in the 2nd round.19 yr old Nilsson had a disappointing season,having been glued to Leksand's 3rd line while players 8-10 yrs older got key icetime.Mapletoft and Jeremy Collotion(sp) iare a couple of other quality prospect.

yeah the nyi may be on the golf course just a few weeks after the rangers,but quit kidding yourself that gaining the experience of a playoff race and playing in playoff games,isn't helping the young players develop.

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03-04-2004, 01:54 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Alas, you will be hard-pressed to find many NYI fans on this board that will even consider the option of the team moving players in an effort at taking a serious run this spring. For three years, the general feeling (not all posters) is that "we're building a team for the future." Same exact mantra is popular now as in 2001. And still, no timetable for that "future". What is lost is the concept that when you have a chance to win, you take it. And, while I know you likely don't agree, and I know many NYI fans don't either, watching this team closely this year, they are different, improved over other recent versions. They could be a tough playoff team, with the right moves, breaks.



But, unfortunately, IMO, a lot of folks don't want to part with any assets, either on this current hall of fame roster, or "futures" that may very well never step on NHL ice.

As a fan, you get the team you deserve, I say.

Different opinions for different people.


I'd be glad to see the isles make a major pickup,wouldn't mind moving core players or top prospects so long as it's for someone who fits into their budget and will be around to contribute for several seasons.

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03-04-2004, 02:08 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Why is it silly?The NYR's need to get the best possible return for what they are offering and if the Isles were the high bid why wouldn't they trade w/one another?

This isn't Leetch we're talking about here but rather playoff rentals of guys who are hardly long time rangers.

And the teams had no problem pulling the trigger on the Palffy deal before Bettman killed it.

As Trotts points out the package I proposed would greatly benefit the NYI's chances of making any noise come PO time and the proposed return is fair in todays market.

Some of you guys act like you have a young Panther team here when in fact all your key players save Rick are IN their prime now, not 2-3 yrs from now.

You guys are happy with the current group and think they can do some damage be my guest and see where it gets you.

The Islanders and Rangers have NEVER made a major trade, what is so different now?

And, Trottier didn't point out that the player you identify "would greatly benefit" our chances of success. He suggested that a guy like Simon could help - with which I agree. Simon is the only one of those players who might improve the Isles chances, and I certainly don't think that he is a player who could help a lot. There is a reason that the Rangers got Simon for next to nothing.

As for the rest of it, the suggest that players like Mironov and Rucinksy are going to put us over the top is not realistic. In fact, I'd go further to say that the Isles would pass if you waived those players today.

Do I think our current crop could do serious damage? Maybe, maybe not. But, I sure as hell don't believe that a 13 goal scorer and a bad defensemen are going to put us over the top. In fact, if your lineup includes marginal guys like that in key positions, you are in big, big trouble. Now, if you were offering a legitimate top four dman who was a banger, or a big physical winger who could score 15 goals a year, that would be different. Instead, you are offering us a package of (mostly) junk and expecting valuable picks in return.


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03-04-2004, 02:21 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The Islanders and Rangers have NEVER made a major trade, what is so different now?


. There is a reason that the Rangers got Simon for next to nothing.

As for the rest of it, the suggest that junk like Mironov and Rucinksy is going to put us over the top is just plain silly. In fact, I'd go further to say that the Isles would pass if you waived those players today.

Its a silly offer, and I think you know that.
They had the Palffy deal DONE but Bettman killed it.I'd say that was pretty major.

Saying that the Isles would pass on Rosie if he were waived is just utter nonsense.The guy has been NYR's best and most consistent forward all year and has been amoung the league leaders for +/- out of forwards all year even on the NYR's.

If that is your stance it really doesn't pay to go further into but obviously you haven't followed Rosie's play this year.

As for us getting Simon ofr nothing--he was a UFA!!!

And if think Boris is bad as a 3rd pair guy just keep Cairns in the lineup and watch as teams eyes light up as they feast on dumping the puck into his corner or beat him wide all night just as Ott did in last yrs playoffs.

Too many of you guys see this as a team that is young like the Panthers or Atl where it's all about the future with all these bright top end prospects where you can simply waste away these playoffs appearances with one and done showings.

To me that is far from the case but obviously you don't feel the need to improve obvious holes and shortcomings of the current squad.

Rosie, Simon and Mironov will all go elsewhere and Rosie inparticular will go on to help a contender.


Last edited by JR#9*: 03-04-2004 at 02:30 PM.
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