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Nikolai Lemtyugov returns to Russia

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Old
12-15-2008, 10:58 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by concept View Post
Maybe the lack of effort is for a reason. Was his time mismanaged? Was he misused? Or was he simply depressed at not getting a shot at the big show? We don't know, you don't know, and your god JR doesn't know, either.

It wouldn't have hurt to give him a couple games on the second line when we're this junked up with injuries. Wouldn't have hurt a bit. That's my point. And maybe those two games we would have seen a rejuvenated, invigorated player. Or maybe not, and he would have headed back to Russia. But at least in my case we may have saved a prospect. Right now, we're left with nothing.
Maybe his time was being mismanaged and maybe he was being misused by his coach. If it's true, we should look at that for future prospects. However, in the case of Lemtyugov...who cares. If he wasn't happy with how he was being treated, the response of withholding effort is an unacceptable one. It's called pouting and it isn't fair to his teammates. I don't know the reason a guy didn't put forth an effort night in and night out and ultimately went back on his word (that he'd do whatever it takes to make the NHL becasue it's his dream), and went back to Russia. Unless he went back for a loved one or something big, I'm guessing the reason was a selfish and petty one based in some sense of entitlement.

Giving Lemtyugov 2 games would have been from what I understand 2 more games at the NHL level than he had earned through his play. By this logic, now that LEgace is hurt, why not just cave in and give Barulin his one-way guaranteed contract? What could it hurt. MAybe we'll see an invigorated goalie and won't lose a prospect...


Bottomline: I'm seeing people whining that Lemtyugov wasn't given a shot when they should be upset that he quit before he earned one.


Last edited by WalterSobchak: 12-16-2008 at 06:59 AM. Reason: Keep it on topic, there is no need for personal attakcs
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12-15-2008, 11:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by concept View Post
Maybe the lack of effort is for a reason. Was his time mismanaged? Was he misused? Or was he simply depressed at not getting a shot at the big show? We don't know, you don't know, and your god JR doesn't know, either.

It wouldn't have hurt to give him a couple games on the second line when we're this junked up with injuries. Wouldn't have hurt a bit. That's my point. And maybe those two games we would have seen a rejuvenated, invigorated player. Or maybe not, and he would have headed back to Russia. But at least in my case we may have saved a prospect. Right now, we're left with nothing.
People grab their torches and pitchforks when Perron gets sat for a game when he needs to refocus. How would people react to someone who supposedly hasn't been giving his all in the AHL be called up? How would his teammates like Perron and Berglund who both worked their butts off in the offseason take it? How would a guy like Junland who's down in Peoria now but came over and worked out hard this summer take it to see him get a shot? Why should Lemty be rewarded when he's not putting in the effort the other guys are?

Like checker said I'll take the lesser talent that gives 100% versus the more talented guy coasting at 50% any day of the week. That seems to be managment's creedo as well. Hopefully this sends the right message to our youth. You want on the team? Give it your all every second you are on the ice.

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12-15-2008, 11:52 PM
  #28
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I think both sides are probably at fault for the way things went down.

Lemtyugov probably did need to show more effort on a shift to shift basis. But how little effort could he be putting in? While 19 points in 27 games isnt anything tremendous, it is pretty solid for a scorer.

The Blues organization did a good job of sticking to their beliefs on how hockey should be played and sent a message to a young player. Unfortunately, when this theoretical young player can run back to his home country and play for more money, the point that is trying to be made becomes irrelevant. It would also be a tough sell, for me at least, to say that Brad Winchester would help this team on a scoring line more than Lemtyugov.

Maybe giving a shot in the NHL would motivate him when he went back to the AHL? Maybe he would have jumped back to Russia after his stint in the NHL was over? Who knows.

I will say that it was poor asset management on the part of the Blues. We had a borderline second-third line guy down the line, now we probably do not. Lesson learned, good news that it only cost us a lazy, borderline second-third line guy. Move on.

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12-16-2008, 12:07 AM
  #29
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i just thought i'd shed some light on the topic, as i recently came across an interview that Simeon Varlamov did on Saturday after the Montreal game, regarding the AHL:

Q: You started playing in Russia for Lokomotiv, and in America up until now you’ve played for the AHL. Is there a big difference between these two leagues?

“These are two totally different leagues, but the one thing I can say for sure is this: the level of hockey in Russia is quite a bit higher than the AHL. However, it was difficult for me personally in both leagues, and I prepared for every game without exception.”

Lemmy like most Russians who don't earn an early shot at the NHL just figure opting back to the KHL is a better decision. better hockey, better money and back at home. plus don't forget the language barrier is a huge set back for many of them, i'm not well versed in the travelings of Nik Lemtyugov but if he's anything like Semin he probably isn't the hugest fan of North America (at least Semin has guys he can speak to), it seems as tho Lems didn't.

at least he wasn't a blue chip prospect, his loss won't effect your team much at all.

gl the rest of the year.

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12-16-2008, 12:21 AM
  #30
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Its a moot issue now, but I wonder whether seeing small minutes in a couple NHL games briefly might not have helped focus him and showed him in a painfully obvious way what he needed to work on.

On the other hand, maybe that's what camp is for....I don't know.

I'm just disappointed to see any of our prospects apparently give up. I feel for the guy, because he's basically admitting to failure of his life-long dream and settling for something less. Many try and never make it, but I always share that pain for the player. Its got to be a hard pill to swallow, no matter the circumstances. Even harder when several guys around you are getting important minutes in St Louis and you don't get a whiff.

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12-16-2008, 02:52 AM
  #31
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Lemtyugov messed up his own development by leaving for N.A. too early.....he was neither NHL ready nor finished developing his skill set when he left.

The AHL is a good league to learn the NHL style of game but, historically speaking, a terrible place for Russians to develop as players....especially forwards.

I'm even willing to bet he's gonna have a difficult time getting quality ice time in the KHL now.

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12-16-2008, 07:18 AM
  #32
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Letter to Blues management.....

Please, Please do not draft another Russian. I don't care how good he is or how good he is going to be. Stick with players from countries that we know that will come over here and stay. Russia has too deep of pockets right now. Please fire anyone who drafts a Russian over round 5 in the amateur draft immediately. This has proven to be a total waste of time, as this letter probably will be when we draft 3 more Russians next year.

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12-16-2008, 07:21 AM
  #33
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Lets try and keep the thread on topic and without the personal attacks. This isn't an AHL vs KHL thread. That might be at the heart of the matter, but that is speculative at best.

The only decent comparison I can make is between Lemtyugov and Perron or Berglund. Now he doesn't have their skill sets but his situation is that he is a prospect trying to break into the big league. Perron had the skill and drive to make the team the year he was drafted and against most people's expectations for the kid.

Berglund came to camp time after time and perhaps he was given the straight talk each camp he came to, and the Blues handled him differently. We can't know that for sure unless we are involved in those conversations. But I don't imagine Patrik was told any differently. If he is ready and works hard, he earns his spot. If he doesn't he won't make the team.

Patrik went back to Sweden quite a few times after camp and this not necessarily the end of Lemty. Perhaps it is best for his progress as a player to head back to Russia and if he has it in him to try and earn a spot in the NHL next year?

Either way I wish the kid the best of luck, it is a shame we never got a chance to see what he could do but I have trust in the hockey minds on this team that if they thought he could make more of an impact in the NHL than Winchester, he would have been there.

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12-16-2008, 10:11 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Letter to Blues management.....

Please, Please do not draft another Russian. I don't care how good he is or how good he is going to be. Stick with players from countries that we know that will come over here and stay. Russia has too deep of pockets right now. Please fire anyone who drafts a Russian over round 5 in the amateur draft immediately. This has proven to be a total waste of time, as this letter probably will be when we draft 3 more Russians next year.
You really have a problem with taking a chance with a 7th round draft choice on a skilled player from Russia?

It might have worked out better. Its not like this is a first round draft choice bust. No need to be so dramatic.

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12-16-2008, 10:18 AM
  #35
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Drazenovic is in a similar situation, putting up similar numbers, and still hasn't gotten his shot either. He's still fighting. This team has too much young talent and too few spots to tolerate quitters and cowards. Good riddance, Nic.
Drazenovic is from Prince George, British Columbia. He's still fighting because he probably doesn't consider the KHL a viable alternative like Lemtyugov did. I seriously doubt the money available to Lemty would be there for Draz, especially not tax-free. Drazenovic isn't facing a language barrier, and like most Canadian players after their junior careers end, it's either play in the A and hope for a shot at the NHL or retire. Unless they want to toil in lesser leagues across the world for their love of hockey, their options aren't as lucrative and plentiful as it would be for a skilled Russian.

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12-16-2008, 10:22 AM
  #36
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Maybe the lack of effort is for a reason. Was his time mismanaged? Was he misused? Or was he simply depressed at not getting a shot at the big show? We don't know, you don't know, and your god JR doesn't know, either.

It wouldn't have hurt to give him a couple games on the second line when we're this junked up with injuries. Wouldn't have hurt a bit. That's my point. And maybe those two games we would have seen a rejuvenated, invigorated player. Or maybe not, and he would have headed back to Russia. But at least in my case we may have saved a prospect. Right now, we're left with nothing.
Right...because things weren't going his way - he was justified in picking up his puck and going home...
He's just another snotty nosed kid who has not yet learned that life is tough. Sometimes you get the short end of the stick. You have a choice - work harder and force somebody to give you a shot, or crawl into a corner and suck your thumb.
He showed what he was made of, by the choice he made.

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12-16-2008, 10:31 AM
  #37
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Anyone calling Lemtyugov a snot-nosed kid, or a spoiled brat or any other derogatory name really ought to check themselves. Unless you've developed a personal relationship with the kid you have no idea the pressures he's facing and the difficulities he's endured. It's easy to sit back and throw stones at him on his way out, but it comes across more as sour-grapes from bitter fans who think their owed something from the kid simply because he was drafted by your favorite team.

The club owes him nothing (as evidenced by their failure to call him up) and he owes them nothing, (especially since there's no transfer agreement in place anymore). He'd get paid as long as he wanted to stay in Peoria, and wouldn't once he left. But expecting him to stay and work for peanuts when he's got the option to make tax-free millions in his home country is ludicrous and hypocritical, because any of you put in his situation would do the exact same thing...especially once you come to the realization that you're shot may never come.

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12-16-2008, 11:12 AM
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Anyone calling Lemtyugov a snot-nosed kid, or a spoiled brat or any other derogatory name really ought to check themselves. Unless you've developed a personal relationship with the kid you have no idea the pressures he's facing and the difficulities he's endured. It's easy to sit back and throw stones at him on his way out, but it comes across more as sour-grapes from bitter fans who think their owed something from the kid simply because he was drafted by your favorite team.

The club owes him nothing (as evidenced by their failure to call him up) and he owes them nothing, (especially since there's no transfer agreement in place anymore). He'd get paid as long as he wanted to stay in Peoria, and wouldn't once he left. But expecting him to stay and work for peanuts when he's got the option to make tax-free millions in his home country is ludicrous and hypocritical, because any of you put in his situation would do the exact same thing...especially once you come to the realization that you're shot may never come.
Perfectly said.

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12-16-2008, 11:32 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Letter to Blues management.....

Please, Please do not draft another Russian. I don't care how good he is or how good he is going to be. Stick with players from countries that we know that will come over here and stay. Russia has too deep of pockets right now. Please fire anyone who drafts a Russian over round 5 in the amateur draft immediately. This has proven to be a total waste of time, as this letter probably will be when we draft 3 more Russians next year.
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
You really have a problem with taking a chance with a 7th round draft choice on a skilled player from Russia?

It might have worked out better. Its not like this is a first round draft choice bust. No need to be so dramatic.

In all fairness, I wouldn't want to leave my home country to play hockey. I hope that he did this because he wanted to, and not because he felt unsure on how the Blues management was treating him.

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12-16-2008, 11:58 AM
  #40
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Lemtyugov is a great kid and has a lot of talent. Very humble but also has a personality similar to Ovechkin's, can be very funny. The problem is Russians and the AHL does not mesh well for very long. I tried to explain this in a jokingly manner previoysly in this thread but unfortunately it was deleted by Waltersobchak, whose sense of humor apparently was turned off today.

Lemtyugov should have been called up for a couple of games last year. Playing a couple of games could have given him extra motivation. I have no doubts Lemtyugov would have made a smooth transition to the NHL but the team management had a different opinion. Oh well, it's their loss.

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12-16-2008, 12:02 PM
  #41
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Lemtyugov is a great kid and has a lot of talent. Very humble but also has a personality similar to Ovechkin's, can be very funny. The problem is Russians and the AHL does not mesh well for very long. I tried to explain this in a jokingly manner previoysly in this thread but unfortunately it was deleted by Waltersobchak, whose sense of humor apparently was turned off today.

Lemtyugov should have been called up for a couple of games last year. Playing a couple of games could have given him extra motivation. I have no doubts Lemtyugov would have made a smooth transition to the NHL but the team management had a different opinion. Oh well, it's their loss.

Well at least I got to read it. I was going to refer back to it, but that is impossible now. For some reason posts are getting edited and deleted for personal agenda these days. Not sure by who or for what reason.

Just out of curiosity, how many examples are there of Russians progressing through the AHL to the NHL, currently?

Watching the some Rivermen games I have come to find them less structured than some Junior or NCAA game I have seen. Maybe this is just their style of play, but for those more well versed on the subject clarify?


Last edited by Celtic Note: 12-16-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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12-16-2008, 12:09 PM
  #42
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Maybe the lack of effort is for a reason. Was his time mismanaged? Was he misused? Or was he simply depressed at not getting a shot at the big show? We don't know, you don't know, and your god JR doesn't know, either.

It wouldn't have hurt to give him a couple games on the second line when we're this junked up with injuries. Wouldn't have hurt a bit. That's my point. And maybe those two games we would have seen a rejuvenated, invigorated player. Or maybe not, and he would have headed back to Russia. But at least in my case we may have saved a prospect. Right now, we're left with nothing.

Concept, my friend, we rarely agree on ideas, but we are on the same page here buddy. Some players need a little extra attention and it takes that special GM et al. to recognize that. I also agree with Checker and Zundo's idea that Blues management should not send the wrong message, but, sometimes, an exception has to be made.

Now we'll never know what Lemtyugov could bring to the table. We should have given him some hope. Two games. 8 minutes a piece. Big deal.

And then after he got sent back down, he'd be salivating at the very real propsect of playing for the big club. Who knows? Maybe he'll come back next year. The Blues still own his rights through the 2010-2011 season, I think.

Lemtyugov=mismanagement

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12-16-2008, 12:17 PM
  #43
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Concept, my friend, we rarely agree on ideas, but we are on the same page here buddy. Some players need a little extra attention and it takes that special GM et al. to recognize that. I also agree with Checker and Zundo's idea that Blues management should not send the wrong message, but, sometimes, an exception has to be made.

Now we'll never know what Lemtyugov could bring to the table. We should have given him some hope. Two games. 8 minutes a piece. Big deal.

And then after he got sent back down, he'd be salivating at the very real propsect of playing for the big club. Who knows? Maybe he'll come back next year. The Blues still own his rights through the 2010-2011 season, I think.

Lemtyugov=mismanagement
Could he not come back and try again? I don't mean Peoria, but to the NHL camp.

Also, if the Blues management didn't bring him up, the media said he didn't bring the effort every game and he never hinted at leaving, then why should he have been brought up?

By the way, I was not against bringing him up, but leaving him down there didn't bother me either.

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12-16-2008, 12:34 PM
  #44
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Could he not come back and try again? I don't mean Peoria, but to the NHL camp.

Also, if the Blues management didn't bring him up, the media said he didn't bring the effort every game and he never hinted at leaving, then why should he have been brought up?

By the way, I was not against bringing him up, but leaving him down there didn't bother me either.
From my quoted post:
"Maybe he'll come back next year. The Blues still own his rights through the 2010-2011 season, I think."

I hope he regains his fire and comes back to camp next season.

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12-16-2008, 01:28 PM
  #45
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From my quoted post:
"Maybe he'll come back next year. The Blues still own his rights through the 2010-2011 season, I think."

I hope he regains his fire and comes back to camp next season.
Does this conflict with camps for the KHL? I think it may be hurt his chances to do well on a Russian team. I hope he comes back to camp, too, but if he's not willing to play in Peoria again its going to be a long shot and may not be worth his time.

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12-16-2008, 01:32 PM
  #46
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Does this conflict with camps for the KHL? I think it may be hurt his chances to do well on a Russian team. I hope he comes back to camp, too, but if he's not willing to play in Peoria again its going to be a long shot and may not be worth his time.
Good question; I don't know. Can someone else elucidate this?

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12-16-2008, 01:39 PM
  #47
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I'm going to trust management on this one. If they didn't think Lemtyugov's play or attitude deserved a call-up, then so be it. It may be a hard pill to swallow when we have to watch Brad Winchester play on the second line, but we'll have to swallow it nevertheless.

On the flip side of the situation, Lemtyugov could have handled things a little better than he did. I hate to see him go, but maybe he'll come back one day. I won't hold my breath, though.

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12-16-2008, 01:52 PM
  #48
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I'm going to trust management on this one. If they didn't think Lemtyugov's play or attitude deserved a call-up, then so be it. It may be a hard pill to swallow when we have to watch Brad Winchester play on the second line, but we'll have to swallow it nevertheless.

On the flip side of the situation, Lemtyugov could have handled things a little better than he did. I hate to see him go, but maybe he'll come back one day. I won't hold my breath, though.
Agreed. Running back home is not the answer.

Correction: Dallas Stars' prospect, Ivan Vishnevskiy, is Russian and plays for Peoria. I'd like his insight on this matter.


Last edited by ChicagoBlues: 12-16-2008 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Forgot about Ivan Vishnevskiy
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12-16-2008, 02:41 PM
  #49
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E-F-F-O-R-T

JR has posted that he has given inconsistent effort all season. In other words, he shows up when he wants to. His talent level is much higher than a guy like Winchester, but if Winchester was actually trying to make the most of what he had and Lemtyugov wasn't, then do we want to reward a player for coasting on natural abilities. I for one think it's a terrible message to send to young players that they don't need to work for their teammates everynight, eventually their perceived talent level will earn them a shot. Winchester isn't an ideal option and Lemtyugov would have been better in theory. But if the effort wasn't there, then Lemtyugov is to blame for his lack of promotion and for us to be subjected to watching Winchester on the 2nd line. All in all though I'd rather be subjected to a player giving 100% everynight of little talent, than send a message that inconsistent effort is ok.
Exactly!

How many times have players been promoted strictly on talent alone! Those players that don't give it all they have on a consistent basis thinking that they are going to get promoted no matter what. Not that this is exactly Lemtyugov situation, but its more generalized to players of all caliber on any team or league. Now could the organization have helped the situation, definitely! My thinking is if you want the shot of a promotion like this it's all on the player. Meaning the player shouldn't leave any reason why he didn't get chosen above others. Make it impossible to be over-looked. Put the extra time in...before and after practice...show them you're willing to take your game to the next level.

I am with Polaris on this that I think the organization wouldn't have let this happen, unless they knew something more. But since Lemtyugov left, we pretty much have to accept it and move on. Hope he comes back, willing to give it his best.

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12-16-2008, 03:20 PM
  #50
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Is there any other news on this besides JR. I know he's pretty much spot on all the time but I've heard or seen nothing else anywhere.

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