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How much credit of this years Sharks team goes to DL?

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Old
12-15-2008, 02:49 PM
  #1
hangons
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How much credit of this years Sharks team goes to DL?

The team has only three losses... Does DL deserve some of the credit? I think he was their GM for seven years or so?

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12-15-2008, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Does DL deserve some of the credit?
Not very much. Their coach is not the coach he hired. He didn't trade for Thornton or Boyle. Didn't sign Blake, didn't draft Setoguchi. Marleau will probably have his best seasons under said coach which Lombardi did not hire. Seems quite simple to me.

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12-15-2008, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Not very much. Their coach is not the coach he hired. He didn't trade for Thornton or Boyle. Didn't sign Blake, didn't draft Setoguchi. Marleau will probably have his best seasons under said coach which Lombardi did not hire. Seems quite simple to me.
Not as simple in my opinion. I don't know a whole lot about DL's tenure in San Jose but isn't it fair to say the reason they've been able to make these deals (Boyle and Thornton) is because of the depth DL left them with? I think the fact that the team was having successful seasons prior to when he was canned made them able to make the trades as well. You wouldn't pull the Thornton trade if you didn't have the depth that they had. Ok maybe you make that one regardless but you get my point. What Boston was thinking we'll never know. The point is they've been able to dump off guys like Stever Bernier and Matt Carle without missing a beat.

I don't think he deserves a lot of credit but he certainly has something to do with the Sharks continuing to be successful even if a lot of the players he drafted may be gone.

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12-15-2008, 05:06 PM
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MxK1NGS
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I think he did a well rounded job....
Unlike the Sharks, Kings are a much younger team and I feel he can contribute more.
Again this is my opinion

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12-15-2008, 05:08 PM
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That is a question that can be asked of every previous coach/gm/personnel of every team. Of course DL had some influence on the current team. But considering he has been gone from the team for seven years, I don't think you can give him too much credit.

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12-15-2008, 05:33 PM
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it would be pretty close to impossible to be a GM and not leave some residue of his tenure to the next GM. So I don't think it has much to do with Lombardi, if at all. Just like I don't think the genetic makeup of this team has much to do with Dave Taylor if at all anymore, despite having Kopitar, Frolov, and Brown as the leading scorers on it. The dynamics are just completley different from the two eras, you should be able to attest to this first hand.

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12-15-2008, 05:37 PM
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He gets some credit for building the organization's reserve list and drafting players that enabled them to make the trades they did down the line to get to the elite level. Obviously at least equal credit (arguably more) goes to Doug Wilson and what he's been able to do with those assets since DL left.

- T

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12-15-2008, 05:46 PM
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biggest trouble you'll find is, among those in Los Angeles who happen to have zero faith in Lombardi or believe him to be a joke or a shill or whatever, many have pointed to the fact that San Jose hasn't won anything to underscore their opinion that he sucks and is a failure.

if and when the moment comes where they win however... well he hasn't been there for seven years.

as long as the Sharks continue to fall short, it'll be used against Dean, if they win it all this season, there'll be a s***load of "yeah buts" thrown around... i promise.

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12-15-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
He gets some credit for building the organization's reserve list and drafting players that enabled them to make the trades they did down the line to get to the elite level. Obviously at least equal credit (arguably more) goes to Doug Wilson and what he's been able to do with those assets since DL left.

- T
ya I definately understand where you're going with that, but I think at one point you have to cut off the previous GM's influence on the current regime. Because if not, you can arguably keep going back til the beginning of the franchise to distribute the credit, because each GM's regime is built upon the previous and so on and so forth.

What is important is how the pieces are put together and utilized. Wilson acquired Thornton with his assets and assembled a team that plays and works together. That's all Wilson, so I think it's sufficient to say Lombardi's mark ont he team is slim to none. Again, it may be a lot of the same pieces, but when we look at DT's team dynamics and compare it to today, you see a completley different system. Heck, just comparing it to last year is completley different, new coach and a few traded players makes a copmletley different team.

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12-15-2008, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
biggest trouble you'll find is, among those in Los Angeles who happen to have zero faith in Lombardi or believe him to be a joke or a shill or whatever, many have pointed to the fact that San Jose hasn't won anything to underscore their opinion that he sucks and is a failure.

if and when the moment comes where they win however... well he hasn't been there for seven years.

as long as the Sharks continue to fall short, it'll be used against Dean, if they win it all this season, there'll be a s***load of "yeah buts" thrown around... i promise.
Thank you. This is the exact thought I had but didn't include in my post. Everyone talks about how they (the Sharks) haven't won anything. Well is that DL's fault or Doug Wilson's? You could argue both ways but Doug Wilson has tweaked with the roster and now brought in a new coach since Ron Wilson (which I'm not sure if he hired or not). I don't see how a GM could be solely responsible for a team winning or not winning a Cup.

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12-15-2008, 06:07 PM
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Doug Wilson deserves most of the credit, but no one can deny that Lombardi did a very good job in putting a foundation in place to build upon.

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12-15-2008, 06:10 PM
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DL did a good job of creating a good base for the Sharks which is why I've always felt your team will be fine. The Sharks WCF final team was essentially his team.

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12-15-2008, 06:13 PM
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12-15-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
biggest trouble you'll find is, among those in Los Angeles who happen to have zero faith in Lombardi or believe him to be a joke or a shill or whatever, many have pointed to the fact that San Jose hasn't won anything to underscore their opinion that he sucks and is a failure.
All I know is that I'd give just about anything to have the "problem" San Jose has of being perennial SC contenders. It's incredibly difficult to win the Cup. It's almost as difficult to be in a position to even have the CHANCE to win it - especially year after year.

I personally hope San Jose remains a failure in the postseason, but at the same time I envy the fact that they even HAVE a postseason-worthy team.

I'll be thrilled just to have playoff hockey back in LA again.

- T

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12-15-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Doug Wilson deserves most of the credit, but no one can deny that Lombardi did a very good job in putting a foundation in place to build upon.
Exactly.

They have been to the playoffs every year and we have missed for how long I can't even remember.

So yes we have to give SOME credit where credit is due. He built the foundation for the Sharks to allow them to do those moves for Thornton, etc. I think Dean calls it ASSETS.

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12-15-2008, 07:35 PM
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A lot in my opinion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Lombardi

Quote:
Upon taking over the San Jose Sharks, he was widely criticized for signing veterans. This move proved to be beneficial as Lombardi acquired veterans while stockpiling the team's farm system with homegrown talent. During his tenure as Sharks GM, he drafted Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm and Marcel Goc in the first round along with Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, Vesa Toskala, Mark Smith, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff in the later rounds.

He also traded for established veterans like Owen Nolan, Teemu Selänne, Adam Graves, Vincent Damphousse, Mike Ricci, Kyle McLaren, Mike Vernon, Todd Harvey, Bryan Marchment and Scott Thornton while developing their prospects slowly. All would become vital in the Sharks success in recent seasons. The team would increase their point totals for six straight seasons during his tenure. Only Hockey Hall of Fame GM Bill Torrey accomplished the same feat overseeing the dynasty of the New York Islanders in the early 1980s.

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12-15-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
biggest trouble you'll find is, among those in Los Angeles who happen to have zero faith in Lombardi or believe him to be a joke or a shill or whatever, many have pointed to the fact that San Jose hasn't won anything to underscore their opinion that he sucks and is a failure.

if and when the moment comes where they win however... well he hasn't been there for seven years.

as long as the Sharks continue to fall short, it'll be used against Dean, if they win it all this season, there'll be a s***load of "yeah buts" thrown around... i promise.
I personally dont care what DL did or didnt do it San Jose. Makes no matter to me. Only what he does here is of importance, and although I have been a naysayer for the most part, and coined him as "the Shill" I am coming around to his support. But we still aint won nothing yet, and the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.

Got any pudding???

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12-15-2008, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
I personally dont care what DL did or didnt do it San Jose. Makes no matter to me. Only what he does here is of importance, and although I have been a naysayer for the most part, and coined him as "the Shill" I am coming around to his support. But we still aint won nothing yet, and the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.

Got any pudding???
Wow, it's comforting to know that you are FINALLY starting to get it.

So, is it going to take winning the cup for you to admit that Lombardi is a good GM?

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12-15-2008, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
I personally dont care what DL did or didnt do it San Jose. Makes no matter to me. Only what he does here is of importance, and although I have been a naysayer for the most part, and coined him as "the Shill" I am coming around to his support. But we still aint won nothing yet, and the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.

Got any pudding???
I think looking at Lombardi's work in the Sharks is important because he is doing EXACTLY what he did then now in LA. He is building the team in almost the exact same mold. Looking at his past helps us better understand his moves now.

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12-15-2008, 10:20 PM
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Dean Lombardi has been named to Team USA's Olympic staff to assist Brian Burke in constructing the team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

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12-15-2008, 10:29 PM
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12-15-2008, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Wow, it's comforting to know that you are FINALLY starting to get it.

So, is it going to take winning the cup for you to admit that Lombardi is a good GM?
It will take 3 consecutive playoff seasons to consider Dean a good GM. It will take the Cup to consider him great......The Kings have never had a great GM.

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12-16-2008, 01:48 AM
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Wow, it's comforting to know that you are FINALLY starting to get it.

So, is it going to take winning the cup for you to admit that Lombardi is a good GM?
When I see results that equate to playoffs and playoff success for several years, I will consider him a good GM. If I see financial "conservatism" when the time to strike {for a bigtime player} is ripe, then I will go back to calling him a shill. This team needs at least two more major pieces to the puzzle, and both will be costly. And this team hasnt made the playoffs even "once in a row" under DL yet.

Further, the attendance problems are as much his fault as the sour economy, and that may come back to bite him in the a**, as our beloved owners care about one thing and one thing only: the bottom line.

In addition, DL has been extremely lucky with the rise of Kyle Quincey, our greatest pick-up to date. Take that away, and this team isnt nearly as competitive or exciting. DL failed to address goaltending this off season, and tonight is an example of what happens when you dont address such an important position. If Ersberg is hurt long term, this team takes a header and DL doesnt look so good.

Ther jury is still out. The Kings have improved, but that and a quater wont buy you a first round berth. Lets evaluate at the end of the season and see if judgments (about DL) can be made then. As for my feelings, as I said, I am starting to come around to DL's side, but I dont believe we will make the playoffs this season, and I believe additional moves need to be made for us to reach them next season as well. We will have to wait and see what those moves are, and whether DL makes them or not. There is reason for optimism sure, but there is nothing to celebrate yet.

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