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Old
11-15-2008, 09:48 AM
  #1
Knight of the Realm
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Jack Johnson

Not saying that the Kings are looking to get rid of him, but if he were to be shopped what would he be worth.

Jack hasn't lived up to the unreasonable hype so far offensively, but he has been rounding out his defensive game and has also shown flashes of potential offensive creativity. Once he is back from injury and playing on the PP his offense should showcase itself.

Just wondering what a young up and coming dman is worth in the NHL.

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11-15-2008, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Not saying that the Kings are looking to get rid of him, but if he were to be shopped what would he be worth.

Jack hasn't lived up to the unreasonable hype so far offensively, but he has been rounding out his defensive game and has also shown flashes of potential offensive creativity. Once he is back from injury and playing on the PP his offense should showcase itself.

Just wondering what a young up and coming dman is worth in the NHL.
Adreas Lija, Jiri Hudler, Kindl & 1st

Give or take imo. Id be tempted to lower that 1st to a 2nd but then i might be accused of Homerism.

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11-15-2008, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Adreas Lija, Jiri Hudler, Kindl & 1st

Give or take imo. Id be tempted to lower that 1st to a 2nd but then i might be accused of Homerism.
Not a bad offer (Except for Lija), Detroit's 1st always end up being an early second.

Jack is going to be a young top pairing Dman, the Kings would probably ask for an arm and a leg. Not sure that this deal would pry him away.

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11-15-2008, 10:26 AM
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Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Not a bad offer (Except for Lija), Detroit's 1st always end up being an early second.

Jack is going to be a young top pairing Dman, the Kings would probably ask for an arm and a leg. Not sure that this deal would pry him away.
Carolina Hurricanes traded Jack Johnson and Oleg Tverdovsky to the Los Angeles Kings for Tim Gleason and Eric Belanger.

Not as high as you would think. That Detroit offer would get him no doubt.

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11-15-2008, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Carolina Hurricanes traded Jack Johnson and Oleg Tverdovsky to the Los Angeles Kings for Tim Gleason and Eric Belanger.

Not as high as you would think. That Detroit offer would get him no doubt.
by all accounts, that was a stupid trade for carolina. apparently they were upset that johnson wasn't ready to play.

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11-15-2008, 10:33 AM
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Jason MacIsaac
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
by all accounts, that was a stupid trade for carolina. apparently they were upset that johnson wasn't ready to play.
Even still...Johnson hasn`t proven anything at the NHL level yet that points towards top pair. You would be hard pressed to call him a second pair right now.

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11-15-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Not a bad offer (Except for Lija), Detroit's 1st always end up being an early second.

Jack is going to be a young top pairing Dman, the Kings would probably ask for an arm and a leg. Not sure that this deal would pry him away.
Consider Lija a salary dump (1.25M). And hes servicable 4/5/6 gy. Hes better now then when you had him. You could always pawn hiim for a 3rd at the deadline.

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11-15-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Even still...Johnson hasn`t proven anything at the NHL level yet that points towards top pair. You would be hard pressed to call him a second pair right now.
Jack started the year as a top pairing Dman on the Kings. Was hurt in his second game. He was the kings best defensive defenseman last season. I'm pretty sure he has the tools to be a top pairing dman on about 90% of the teams in the NHL right now.

The Carolina argument has been dealt with to death, it was a lopsided trade. I would still love to have Gleason on the Kings today that being said.

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11-15-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Jack started the year as a top pairing Dman on the Kings. Was hurt in his second game. He was the kings best defensive defenseman last season. I'm pretty sure he has the tools to be a top pairing dman on about 90% of the teams in the NHL right now.

The Carolina argument has been dealt with to death, it was a lopsided trade. I would still love to have Gleason on the Kings today that being said.
Second worst +- on the kings last year, very little offense shown. All he has shown for me is that he will play a mean physical game and when given a lot of minutes is a minus. Stats don`t tell the full story but when you are second worst +- on the team it does.

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11-15-2008, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Jack started the year as a top pairing Dman on the Kings. Was hurt in his second game. He was the kings best defensive defenseman last season. I'm pretty sure he has the tools to be a top pairing dman on about 90% of the teams in the NHL right now.

The Carolina argument has been dealt with to death, it was a lopsided trade. I would still love to have Gleason on the Kings today that being said.
You're overestimating JJ's current abilities. I can understand the thought of trading him due to Doughty's play, but you'd have to let him get on the ice and prove he has any value first. Still, no way he gets moved any time soon, having him and Doughty should hopefully give the Kings a great duo for a decade.

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11-15-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Second worst +- on the kings last year, very little offense shown. All he has shown for me is that he will play a mean physical game and when given a lot of minutes is a minus. Stats don`t tell the full story but when you are second worst +- on the team it does.
You have no idea what you are talking about

STOP

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11-15-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about

STOP
Prove me wrong then..

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2007/basi...&team=L.A&pos=
In depth stats based on the whole season, Jack Johnson had one of the worse CORSI ratings in the whole league.


Last edited by Jason MacIsaac: 11-15-2008 at 11:05 AM.
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11-15-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Second worst +- on the kings last year, very little offense shown. All he has shown for me is that he will play a mean physical game and when given a lot of minutes is a minus. Stats don`t tell the full story but when you are second worst +- on the team it does.
+/- is the most useless stat in all of hockey...two words, Jason Labarbera. The kings management forced some reigns on JJ. They had him focus on learning the D side of playing in the NHL his first couple of seasons.

Crawford rarely used him on the PP and never really gave him a chance to be successful offensively. Crawford also had no true defensive system set up for LA. It's hard to go on offense when you are so busy trying to keep the puck out of your own net playing in front of a pylon of a goalie.

It's amazing how much difference a defensive sytem and a solid goalie can do for a team.


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11-15-2008, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Second worst +- on the kings last year, very little offense shown. All he has shown for me is that he will play a mean physical game and when given a lot of minutes is a minus. Stats don`t tell the full story but when you are second worst +- on the team it does.
Because Dan Hamhuis has the worst +/- on his team, he must be an awful defenseman

Because Rod Brindamour has the worst +/- on his team, he must be an aweful defensive forward

same for Kris Draper and Jay Boumeester

Nice try

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11-15-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
by all accounts, that was a stupid trade for carolina. apparently they were upset that johnson wasn't ready to play.
We'll find out in the long run if the trade was all that stupid really. Right now the Canes have the best player in the deal in Gleason, who likely will remain the best player for the next 2-3 years. After that who knows?

As for Jack's current value. Probably something along the lines of what that Detroit offer is would be about right.

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11-15-2008, 11:11 AM
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You're overestimating JJ's current abilities. I can understand the thought of trading him due to Doughty's play, but you'd have to let him get on the ice and prove he has any value first. Still, no way he gets moved any time soon, having him and Doughty should hopefully give the Kings a great duo for a decade.
Doughty is everything we hoped JJ would be right out of the gates, but JJ's on a different path. I was truly hoping that he could showcase his offense under a new coach and I still think he will. I'm extremely happy we have him and as you say, he is a huge part of our future. Defensively the guy is tough as nails.

I'm looking more towards next year however.

Doughty JJ
Hickey Teubert

I hope the Kings resign OD and Quincey. That is a very solid Top 6 (Granted Hickey and Teubert are not guaranteed locks) Not to mention the Cap space we have to sign free agents.

We will also have Voynov in couple of years.

JJ is hear to stay, but if he could be packaged or the center piece for a top flight sniper I would be hard pressed to turn it down. I think the kings could be trouble with a little more scoring touch in the lineup. The deal would have to make sense though.

The Kings won't do it though as DD and Jack are our only guaranteed returns.


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11-15-2008, 11:12 AM
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Sorry, but JJ is awful (I watched a dozen King games last season). The hype behind him is insane and he's at best a second-pairing D-men (doesn't have the hockey sense) ala Brad Stuart. In fact, I don't even think he'll even be Brad Stuart.

A nice skillset, but Doughty is 10 leagues above him.

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11-15-2008, 11:12 AM
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Steen, Colaiacovo

for

Johnson

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11-15-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
Because Dan Hamhuis has the worst +/- on his team, he must be an awful defenseman

Because Rod Brindamour has the worst +/- on his team, he must be an aweful defensive forward

same for Kris Draper and Jay Boumeester

Nice try
I guess the CORSI number is pure bull also, He was the lagues worst defensmen in this category. Can`t blame goaltending for this one.

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11-15-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Sorry, but JJ is awful (I watched a dozen King games last season). The hype behind him is insane and he's at best a second-pairing D-men (doesn't have the hockey sense) ala Brad Stuart. In fact, I don't even think he'll even be Brad Stuart.

A nice skillset, but Doughty is 10 leagues above him.
Agreed, I really don`t think he has the offensive skills that Stuart posses.

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11-15-2008, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Steen, Colaiacovo

for

Johnson
ha.ha.ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I guess the CORSI number is pure bull also, He was the lagues worst defensmen in this category. Can`t blame goaltending for this one.
?

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11-15-2008, 11:17 AM
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We'll find out in the long run if the trade was all that stupid really. Right now the Canes have the best player in the deal in Gleason, who likely will remain the best player for the next 2-3 years. After that who knows?

As for Jack's current value. Probably something along the lines of what that Detroit offer is would be about right.
I have alot of love for Gleason, I think Jack has more offensive upside. As good as Gleason is, Jack is a much better skater. I think the offense will get there for him sooner than later.

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11-15-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Second worst +- on the kings last year, very little offense shown. All he has shown for me is that he will play a mean physical game and when given a lot of minutes is a minus. Stats don`t tell the full story but when you are second worst +- on the team it does.
How many times have you actually seen Jack Johnson play a full game?

As a rookie, he played top pairing minutes on a Kings defense that sucked and with goaltending that was even worse. So Jack is playing against the other teams' best players night-in-night-out and you are complaining about plus/minus? He was consistently the Kings best defenseman last year and his offensive touch did not develop because of Crawford's ludicrous theory that he should only develop his defensive game first.

But, I don't know why anybody tries to compare him to Doughty, because Doughty is on a whole 'nother level. JJ is a solid defenseman who is capable of offense, but Doughty is a solid defenseman who knows the game so well that offense comes to him like breathing.

But...either way you look at it the Kings still have BOTH these guys plus Teubert and Hickey!

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11-15-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
I guess the CORSI number is pure bull also, He was the lagues worst defensmen in this category. Can`t blame goaltending for this one.
I have no idea what this inane stat system is that you are talking about, but give Jack a season in a sound system and in front of a decent goalie and then compare the two numbers.

Jack outplayed Stuart all of last year on the Kings. Stuart got the PP time that Jack should have had.

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11-15-2008, 11:27 AM
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OT - The first round of 2005 draft is looking pretty questionable and no where near the quality of the 2006 draft. Half look like outright busts.

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