HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

12-18-08 Avs at Lightning 5:30 PM MT

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-18-2008, 09:54 PM
  #101
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Hitman View Post
The referees ***** the entire Tampa Bay Lightning franchise.
Except for game six of the '04 cup finals.

Huis Clos* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 10:02 PM
  #102
We Want The Cup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hekic42 View Post
Except for game six of the '04 cup finals.

You can't compare the two. The refs didn't even know to review that play, and the Flames weren't protesting either. This play however, the refs made a decision to refuse to go to video review. Terrible.

We Want The Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 10:03 PM
  #103
Grackle Party
Varls Barkley 2k12
 
Grackle Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,042
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
That was a crappy way to win a game, but oh well. We'll take it at this time. And karma will get our ass eventually.
Karma has been against us the whole time... Arny is the second line center for our team!

Grackle Party is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 11:25 PM
  #104
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 19,012
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by de bulldawg View Post
i'm not sure of the exact rules but to me it really looked like the shaft of smith's stick made the original save after he dropped it and then the puck hit his blocker. like i said, i dont know the official rules on if the goalie can drop his stick to make a save, but if the rule is that the stick has to be in the goalie's hand when it makes the save, then i think they made the right call
Here's the only NHL rule that could apply to throwing the stick in the SO, and it's on penalty shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL Rulebook
26.4 Infractions – During the Course of a Penalty Shot - A goal will be
awarded when a goalkeeper attempts to stop a penalty shot by
throwing his stick or any other object at the player taking the shot or
by deliberately dislodging the goal.
http://www.nhlofficials.com/images/2...L_Rulebook.pdf

I slow-mowed all the replays, and you can see that Hejduk shot the puck, and Smith dropped his stick at almost the exact same time. Also, if you look carefully, you can see the puck hit near the knob of Smith's stick and deflected towards his blocker for the save. McNabb mentioned this and if you slow-mo the replays, from one angle you can see the puck look like it hit something before the blocker but you can't tell. Then in another really close up angle, you can see the puck going towards the knob, but Hejduk skates in front of the camera at the last second. Then in another angle a little further back, but not the overhead, you can see it deflect off the knob after he had dropped the stick. It really looked like it would have gone in if Smith hadn't dropped his stick, so IMO justice was served.

It was a tough call to make, because they most likely didn't know if hit the knob of his stick, they couldn't review it, and it doesn't specify anywhere in the rulebook about when a goaltender drops his stick. To me though, and I don't think I'm being that bias, but I would err on the side that they did. The shot and the dropped stick happened literally at the same time, and it shouldn't really matter if it affects the shot, because where do you draw the line between that, and if player threw his stick but missed. It's all irrelevant to me though, as you can see the puck hit his stick after it was dropped, so it would be unfair for him to make a save like that. Hard to tell if he did it on purpose, but McNabb made a good point about Turco doing the same thing before in the SO, and the connection there with Smith. I can see how this can only add to the frustrating season Tampa fans are having, but if the save would have counted, and Av fans would have seen the puck hit the knob, they would have a much more legitimate case for being upset.

BTW, I was watching the Lightning feed at a bar, and you could see Leo jump out onto the ice like he was gonna take the first shot for the SO. Wolski just skated by him and laughed, and he jumped back on the bench.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 12-18-2008 at 11:31 PM.
Foppa2118 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 11:41 PM
  #105
Avsboy
Registered User
 
Avsboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,365
vCash: 500
You're completely right. The puck hit the stick and deflected.

Controversy over!

Avsboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 11:48 PM
  #106
detrude
(╯□)╯ ︵ ┻━┻
 
detrude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Djibouti
Posts: 3,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
BTW, I was watching the Lightning feed at a bar, and you could see Leo jump out onto the ice like he was gonna take the first shot for the SO. Wolski just skated by him and laughed, and he jumped back on the bench.
He's our secret weapon! So secret the Lightning guys thought his name was Jonathan. But I noticed that, too, thought it was pretty funny.

detrude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2008, 11:54 PM
  #107
Ensane
EL GUAPO
 
Ensane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 15,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detrude View Post
He's our secret weapon! So secret the Lightning guys thought his name was Jonathan. But I noticed that, too, thought it was pretty funny.
That caught me off guard too because their pbp guy I thought was pretty solid for the entire game. Their color guy was a doof though.

Ensane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 12:13 AM
  #108
SB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,862
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
That was a crappy way to win a game, but oh well. We'll take it at this time. And karma will get our ass eventually.
Turco even more definitely threw his stick on Smyth's shot, so this is actually a return of karma that the Avs are owed.

This was a closer call, but perhaps the goalies just shouldn't throw their sticks.

SB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 01:07 AM
  #109
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsboy12345 View Post
You're completely right. The puck hit the stick and deflected.

Controversy over!
How so exactly? As posted the only rule in the rulebook that applies states "deliberately thrown" in relation to the goaltenders stick.

Smith didnt "deliberately throw" anything. In fact it was the most obvious drop of a stick to try to make a save as anything.

Therefore the save, even though it hit off the stick first, was completely legal and it should not have been an awarded goal.

The only way that rule would apply is if Smith threw his stick at Hejduk or the puck and its quite obvious that he didnt.

Controversy, apparently, not over.

IdealisticSniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 01:09 AM
  #110
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane View Post
That caught me off guard too because their pbp guy I thought was pretty solid for the entire game. Their color guy was a doof though.
Haha well Peckham (PBP) is great IMO. Almost always on top of things and one of the least biased announcers you will find.

Chief (Color) ...yeah well hes a goalie so what do you expect? Haha. Hes always good for a laugh though and he means well

IdealisticSniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 01:27 AM
  #111
mustela
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Sweden
Posts: 291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by detrude View Post
He's our secret weapon! So secret the Lightning guys thought his name was Jonathan. But I noticed that, too, thought it was pretty funny.
not only that, but did anyone notice mcnab call raycroft "mark rycroft"?

mustela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 07:11 AM
  #112
Allen Degenerate
Embrace the Hate
 
Allen Degenerate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Country: Albania
Posts: 4,342
vCash: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by de bulldawg View Post
not only that, but did anyone notice mcnab call raycroft "mark rycroft"?

I thought I heard "Rycroft" a few times on the radio.

Allen Degenerate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 10:36 AM
  #113
Jori
Registered User
 
Jori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 20,208
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jori
Quote:
Originally Posted by de bulldawg View Post
not only that, but did anyone notice mcnab call raycroft "mark rycroft"?
I heard that too. I think the ref referring to Smyth's penalty being on Edmonton was hilarious.

Jori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 11:07 AM
  #114
Burnaby_Joe*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,271
vCash: 500

Burnaby_Joe* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 12:35 PM
  #115
Coug555
Registered User
 
Coug555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dana Point, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,918
vCash: 500
I was just reading the posts in the NHL board on this. They found something I didn't see. If you watch it again carefully you can see when Smith drops his stick, the puck deflects of the stick while its in mid-air and then goes off Smith's blocker. It is a completely legit call. I am just amazed how the ref's saw that in real time or maybe they just got lucky.

Coug555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 12:57 PM
  #116
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coug555 View Post
I was just reading the posts in the NHL board on this. They found something I didn't see. If you watch it again carefully you can see when Smith drops his stick, the puck deflects of the stick while its in mid-air and then goes off Smith's blocker. It is a completely legit call. I am just amazed how the ref's saw that in real time or maybe they just got lucky.
Read about 5 posts up and its being discussed in this thread already. And the fact that it hit the stick is completely irrelevant.

IdealisticSniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 01:28 PM
  #117
The Kingslayer
Registered User
 
The Kingslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Yuck horse piss!
Country: Cambodia
Posts: 21,959
vCash: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
That was a crappy way to win a game, but oh well. We'll take it at this time. And karma will get our ass eventually.
Brett Clark is loggin the most minutes...I think the Hockey gods wanted to give us a break....Raycroft over Budaj I can feel it coming.

The Kingslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 02:48 PM
  #118
MildAvaholic
Registered User
 
MildAvaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: St. George, Utah
Country: United States
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
Its obviously Jussi Jokinen's fault. Tampa Bay waived him today....

MildAvaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 03:00 PM
  #119
detrude
(╯□)╯ ︵ ┻━┻
 
detrude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Djibouti
Posts: 3,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coug555 View Post
I was just reading the posts in the NHL board on this. They found something I didn't see. If you watch it again carefully you can see when Smith drops his stick, the puck deflects of the stick while its in mid-air and then goes off Smith's blocker. It is a completely legit call. I am just amazed how the ref's saw that in real time or maybe they just got lucky.
If that was their basis, or if this will be how the NHL office spins this debacle, it was a luck call at the time. The only way I was able to see that was in a slow-mo replay, and even then some angles don't give a clear view. Personally, I don't see any intent to throw the stick there and think the Lightning got jobbed on that call, but we've been jobbed on more than a few occasions since the lockout as well (Doan anyone?).

detrude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 03:26 PM
  #120
avs1dacup
Registered User
 
avs1dacup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,436
vCash: 134
That was probably the weirdest ending to a game I've seen. Given that, it was still the right call. According to the rule that Foppa posted, a goalie cannot drop his stick in the course of the play unless an external force acts upon him(example: a player runs into him ala Smyth and Turco earlier in the year). There was no logical reason for him to let go of his stick other than he was beat and was doing anything to stop the puck. The fact he let go as Hejduk shot is also a pretty clear indication of intent, even though, according to the rule intent is not needed. The fact is, he came across and dropped his stick with the intent to make the save and that can't be done on a penalty shot(shootout shot)according to the rules. All four officials on the ice took a good 5 minutes to talk it over and come to the conclusion they did so it's not like it was a hasty "get the game done" decision made by one ref.

avs1dacup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 03:39 PM
  #121
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by avs1dacup View Post
That was probably the weirdest ending to a game I've seen. Given that, it was still the right call. According to the rule that Foppa posted, a goalie cannot drop his stick in the course of the play unless an external force acts upon him(example: a player runs into him ala Smyth and Turco earlier in the year). There was no logical reason for him to let go of his stick other than he was beat and was doing anything to stop the puck. The fact he let go as Hejduk shot is also a pretty clear indication of intent, even though, according to the rule intent is not needed. The fact is, he came across and dropped his stick with the intent to make the save and that can't be done on a penalty shot(shootout shot)according to the rules. All four officials on the ice took a good 5 minutes to talk it over and come to the conclusion they did so it's not like it was a hasty "get the game done" decision made by one ref.
Errr what? According to the rule that is posted he cannot THROW HIS STICK AT THE PLAYER.... there is nothing saying he cant drop his stick. On top of that he had to drop his stick to get his arm where he wanted it to go. It would have been physically impossible for him to get the blocker where he thought it needed to be with the stick still in his hand so he let it go to make the save.

One linesman changed the mind of the other 3. Thats wrong no matter how you look at it. Especially with none of them seeing a replay. They didnt even look at the jumbotron.

IdealisticSniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 04:21 PM
  #122
KHaosActual
Registered User
 
KHaosActual's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Germany
Posts: 277
vCash: 500
Goalies and Sticks

I think you can thank Dominik Hasek for that rule.
He did do everything in his ability to stop the puck and included dropping the stick when make saves.
I don't remember when but I do recall the NHL looking at that as a safety issue with a goaltender's stick being loose. I mean when you rollover and let go of the stick it still looks thrown due to the movement of the player.
But for goalies, I would think holding on to the stick is important in any situation, cause you don't want to be without it.
And what's funny is in the NFL the referee isn't suppose to look at the jumbotron to make decisions, maybe NHL refs can't do the same.


Last edited by KHaosActual: 12-19-2008 at 04:24 PM. Reason: wrong spelling
KHaosActual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 04:28 PM
  #123
SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Screw You Blaster
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,049
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SoundwaveIsCharisma
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofhockey98 View Post
I think you can thank Dominik Hasek for that rule.
He did do everything in his ability to stop the puck and included dropping the stick when make saves.
I don't remember when but I do recall the NHL looking at that as a safety issue with a goaltender's stick being loose. I mean when you rollover and let go of the stick it still looks thrown due to the movement of the player.
But for goalies, I would think holding on to the stick is important in any situation, cause you don't want to be without it.
And what's funny is in the NFL the referee isn't suppose to look at the jumbotron to make decisions, maybe NHL refs can't do the same.
Just dropping his stick? I remember Hasek playing in his prime and his equipment flying all over the place, it wasn't just his amazing goaltending skills, it was also the fact that if you tried to make a move in close his blocker was going to fly off and hit you in the face.

SoundwaveIsCharisma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 04:31 PM
  #124
Hasbro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Hasbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Rectangle
Country: Sami
Posts: 29,967
vCash: 500
You're also not supposed to leave you stick on the ice to block low shots, the rule came into effect because some goal was doing that when pulled for the 6th attacker (Dr No?)

Anyway it's a shoot out loss in December, I doubt anyone will give a crap come April.

Hasbro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2008, 04:36 PM
  #125
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,320
vCash: 1210
Tampa Got screwed, but who cares? 1-8-3 in their last 12. This won't exactly be the reason that they're playing golf in April.

Plus the Avs could use a break. The only breaks they usually get are Joe Sakic's fingers inside his snow blower.

shadow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.