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Screw you Mats

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Old
12-19-2008, 06:30 AM
  #101
hullsy47
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Originally Posted by Reverse Flying V View Post
Not saying that I'm support of it, but this way the venters can vent in here an leave the thank you Mats thread to the people respecting what he's done.
like vancouver still aint gonna beat detroit or san jose .u join poker stars ,but mats says this aint about the money .blah blah blah .....keon was best!!!!!!

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Old
12-19-2008, 06:35 AM
  #102
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Vancouver with a healthy luongo + the addition of sundin, will rip apart detroit, SJ is still questionable.

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Old
12-19-2008, 06:56 AM
  #103
Machinae
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Must burn my Sundin jersey.

It makes me angry every time I see it.

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Old
12-19-2008, 07:12 AM
  #104
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Give me that jersey, ill need one soon anyways, i can settle for less though if its free. Ill just cross out the leaf with sharpie, good as new.

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Old
12-19-2008, 07:23 AM
  #105
John-Eric Iannicello
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Definately left a bit of a black mark on a great career as a Leaf.

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Old
12-19-2008, 08:28 AM
  #106
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Maybe a thread named "**** the management for creating this mess" should be appropriate.

/Cheers

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Old
12-19-2008, 08:55 AM
  #107
Raging Bull
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Sundin exercised a right in his contract, that was given to him by management. He continually had to explain himself as to why he wouldn't waive it, but why should he, it was his right.

He has done nothing wrong people, let it go.

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Old
12-19-2008, 08:58 AM
  #108
iPunch
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Originally Posted by Raging Bull View Post
Sundin exercised a right in his contract, that was given to him by management. He continually had to explain himself as to why he wouldn't waive it, but why should he, it was his right.

He has done nothing wrong people, let it go.
<---- way to the praise thread

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Old
12-19-2008, 08:58 AM
  #109
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He has done nothing wrong people, let it go.
agreed, what does he owe us? nothing.

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:02 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by The Bad Guys View Post
<---- way to the praise thread
Where did I praise him?

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:11 AM
  #111
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this is a thread for haters.. leave us alone. You will NOT reason with us

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:12 AM
  #112
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It was nothing more than a job for him. He bolted for Sweden the day after the season ended every year.

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:12 AM
  #113
Doctor House
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Why all the hate? Mats gave his all to TO - it was simply time to move on.

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:14 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Indrid Cold View Post
It was nothing more than a job for him. He bolted for Sweden the day after the season ended every year.
Why wouldn't he? That is where his family and friends are isn't it? September to the end of the season in Toronto and he goes home for a few months, big deal.

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:26 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Doctor House View Post
Why all the hate? Mats gave his all to TO - it was simply time to move on.
What changed between last Febuary and now that makes it time to move on?

BTW he did NOT give his all for T.O. or we would not be having all these discussions.

ps. there is another thread for the Sundin fans.

pps. this topic has been discussed in several threads, no use debating any more, his fans love him, the rest of us despise him, that is all she wrote. Everyone is entitled to their view.


Last edited by The Messenger: 12-19-2008 at 09:31 AM.
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Old
12-19-2008, 09:45 AM
  #116
ToMaLe
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For years I respected Sundin as a player and mostly as a person. Then for some reason known only to him he flat out lied to the Leafs, their fans and all of hockey. And btw I cant stand liars. Sundin would of been one of the most loved and respected Leafs of all time if he would of just waived his NT contract and if he so choosed to sign with the Leafs again in the summer. But all that has been tarnished with his lies. Argueably this is what Sundin costed us by not waving his NT contract.

1. Higgins, Grabovski and a 1st pick.
2. Everything we gave up for Grabovski.
3. Probably would of been in the bottom 5 so everything we gave up for Schenn.
4. IF Mats would of waived so too probably Kaberle and others, therefore, Carter and a 1st pick.
5. What we would of got if the rest waived.

Of course this is all speculation but also very possible. Alot of Leafs fans will stand by Sundin no matter what and that is their right but a great number of Leafs fans would of loved to have what is included in the 5 listed things above and for that I dont blame them one bit for being a little pissed.

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Old
12-19-2008, 09:58 AM
  #117
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The part that bothers me isn't the fact the Leafs could have got something for him, but how hypocritical it was for him to say one thing only to then do another. I can understand people changing their minds but that was pretty quick, and although people may say the Leaf management alienated Mats, it obviously didn't if he was still considering their offer up until when Burke took over.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:22 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToMaLe View Post
For years I respected Sundin as a player and mostly as a person. Then for some reason known only to him he flat out lied to the Leafs, their fans and all of hockey. And btw I cant stand liars. Sundin would of been one of the most loved and respected Leafs of all time if he would of just waived his NT contract and if he so choosed to sign with the Leafs again in the summer. But all that has been tarnished with his lies. Argueably this is what Sundin costed us by not waving his NT contract.

1. Higgins, Grabovski and a 1st pick.
2. Everything we gave up for Grabovski.
3. Probably would of been in the bottom 5 so everything we gave up for Schenn.
4. IF Mats would of waived so too probably Kaberle and others, therefore, Carter and a 1st pick.
5. What we would of got if the rest waived.

Of course this is all speculation but also very possible. Alot of Leafs fans will stand by Sundin no matter what and that is their right but a great number of Leafs fans would of loved to have what is included in the 5 listed things above and for that I dont blame them one bit for being a little pissed.
Well said ..

The impact of the Sundin decision directly costs Leafs Higgins, Grabovski, 1st in 2008, + Leafs 2nd in 2010 (Grabovksi) + 5th in 2008 (Greg Pateryn)..

When you go from that to nothing it hurts. That is only the direct Sundin effect. Sundin played 9 more games as a Leaf post deadline before getting hurt and ending the season and Leafs finished 7th worst team in the NHL last year. .

If that wasn't enough now it comes out that everything he said as to why Leaf Nation should understand his decision was a complete fabrication and lie and he joins his new team mid season .. Does't believe in being a rental in early March, but being on in early January just fine with him.. Oh yeah, lets not forget he took the largest amount of money $$$$ offered with his prorated $10 mil deal just to rub it in everyone's face.

Many will not soon forget what he did and his legacy as a Leaf has changed for ever, but he is not going to be universally forgiven for his actions.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:24 AM
  #119
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it seems it was the Leafs who did not want him back

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists...03106-sun.html

And, as the sour icing on the Christmas cake, there was a chance, according to general manager Brian Burke, that Sundin might have returned to Toronto.

Burke said he had talked to Sundin's agent, J.P. Barry, quite a bit, and that the big Swede probably would have come back if the Leafs had wanted him.

But ...

"I would say, from talking to Mats, that he had a soft spot for Toronto and we had lengthy conversations, but I don't think it was the right fit or the right direction for us right now," Burke said last night.

For months now, there has been a perception that it was Sundin who didn't want the Leafs, leading bitter fans to call him a traitor for not waiving his no-trade clause last February, thereby keeping the organization from acquiring a cache of prospects, young talent and draft picks in exchange for him.

Now, we find out through Burke, that it was, in fact, the Leafs who didn't want Sundin to come back. It was a controversial decision. It was also the right decision.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:29 AM
  #120
Mess
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Originally Posted by Raging Bull View Post
Why wouldn't he? That is where his family and friends are isn't it? September to the end of the season in Toronto and he goes home for a few months, big deal.
One could suggest that Burke is going to take the team in another direction and indirectly this very factor a part of his decision making process..

Biggest Canadian City, largest Fan base Canadian based .. Not going to be a stretch to predict that the NA content of this team is going to take a major overhaul and have players that call Toronto or Canada home year round.

Brian Burke may make this into a Don Cherry style team in the future.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:30 AM
  #121
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Then he probably should have accepted the offer that was on the table between February - September by Fletcher.

Burke mentioned it at his press conference, based on the conversation with Sundin he did not think we were the type of team he would sign with as he was interested in going to a contender. Burke's a smart guy, he chose his words carefully then and I think he was honest.

Maybe the feeling was mutual at this point, but Sundin should not have come back anyway. I guess that's the only positive about this whole thing.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:34 AM
  #122
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I agree that Sundin did the Leafs a great disservice by refusing to waive his NMC last year. Although its true that he had the right to do so, surely he realized that they had been handed out by JFJ like candy because the Leafs thought that they had the core of a cup contending team, and both the Muskoka 5 players and the team thought it would be good to keep the core together.

But when reality set in and it became obvious that a rebuild was necessary, Mats could have shown real leadership and agreed to waive the clause in order to help the Leafs. Captains are supposed to sacrifice their own interests for team goals- even if it means leaving. He didn't. I think he was selfish, and his decision lead to a domino effect of the rest of 5 refusing to be traded as well, setting the rebuild back at least a year.

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Old
12-19-2008, 10:38 AM
  #123
sangreale
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Originally Posted by Anthrax442 View Post
this is a thread for haters.. leave us alone. You will NOT reason with us

Probably!

But consider the fact that others may be looking to keep up the BC Joneses! We have a couple of things for sale if I understand correctly.

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Old
12-19-2008, 11:20 AM
  #124
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Based on this new information I would like to revoke all the bad stuff I said about Mats and redirect back onto Burke. Time to switch to the nicer thread. I knew I didn't belong in this crowd.

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Old
12-19-2008, 11:35 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by bcool View Post
Be mad at MLSE and Ferguson then. Mats Sundin had a NTC in his contract and he had every right to exercise it.
I am pissed at MLSE and JFJ, but that doesn't mean Sundin is off the hook.

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