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Our need for a top 4 defenseman, potential solutions?

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:08 PM
  #101
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
no point shot, and it shows,

get bo
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Originally Posted by kevinr View Post
What the Habs need is a D that can play the right point on the PP. It would be better if he shot left so the one-timer from Markov would be more effective.
Sergei seems to be getting comfortable on the point, two PP goals from his shot at the point in the last 3 games. And the PP produced 5 goals in the last 3 games.

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12-29-2008, 04:15 AM
  #102
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Jay Bo.

If not him, why not Derek Morris?

Assets
Possesses a well-rounded package of top-level skills, specifically an excellent skating stride and booming shot from the point. Is very strong and aggressive along the blueline.

Flaws
Has a tendency to lose his concentration in the defensive zone and give the puck away at the most inopportune moments. Must learn to better harness his aggressive nature.

Career potential
No. 2 defenseman.

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Old
12-29-2008, 07:22 AM
  #103
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He would also better fit within our salary structure so that offensive prowess does not have to be sacrificed.
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Jay Bo.

If not him, why not Derek Morris?

Assets
Possesses a well-rounded package of top-level skills, specifically an excellent skating stride and booming shot from the point. Is very strong and aggressive along the blueline.

Flaws
Has a tendency to lose his concentration in the defensive zone and give the puck away at the most inopportune moments. Must learn to better harness his aggressive nature.

Career potential
No. 2 defenseman.

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Old
12-29-2008, 08:53 AM
  #104
Ozymandias
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He would also better fit within our salary structure so that offensive prowess does not have to be sacrificed.
I'd prefer Kuba.

Since the deadline has been postponed for this season, Ottawa might be out of the playoff picture before trade deadline. He might not cost us much. Whereas Phoenix might still be in the run at that time.

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Old
12-29-2008, 09:33 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I'd prefer Kuba.

Since the deadline has been postponed for this season, Ottawa might be out of the playoff picture before trade deadline. He might not cost us much. Whereas Phoenix might still be in the run at that time.
I wouldn't mind either of them if the price is right, but Kuba seems more like a PPQB than a shooter and we already have that in Markov. I think he would probably bring a little more on the defensive side than Morris but he doesn't have his shot which is the thing we need on the PP. Since we're trading for a guy, we might as well trade for the one that fills the most holes.

In any case, they are both rentals so it's fine by me.

EDIT: Seems that Morris is a righty which would make him incompatible with Markov on the PP. It does help the even-strenght play though because he can play with Hamrlik without being on his off-side.


Last edited by JAVO16: 12-29-2008 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
12-29-2008, 10:10 PM
  #106
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After watching the game tonight against the Panthers, it only re-enforced my beliefs that it's Bouwmeester that we truly need.

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Old
12-30-2008, 04:17 PM
  #107
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Philly is in trouble with cap space and some sources indicate they might be trying to move Randy Jones and his 2.5 million dollar salary. Is he an upgrade over what we have?

Since the Flyers don't have room to take back an NHL salary, perhaps one of our Russian prospects (Perezhogin, Emelin or Valentenko) might be an attractive option. If the Habs included some kind of mid-round draft pick it could give the Flyers some potential for the future for an asset they might be forced to move.

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Old
12-30-2008, 04:20 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
After watching the game tonight against the Panthers, it only re-enforced my beliefs that it's Bouwmeester that we truly need.
If we got Bouwmeester we could forget about signing Komisarek and maybe a couple of others next year. The cap space would be gone and we would be like the Sens. All are eggs in a very few baskets.

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Old
12-30-2008, 04:30 PM
  #109
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If we got Bouwmeester we could forget about signing Komisarek and maybe a couple of others next year. The cap space would be gone and we would be like the Sens. All are eggs in a very few baskets.
not if we trade Hamerlik and let go 1 of Kovy/Koivu...

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Old
12-30-2008, 05:08 PM
  #110
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Other teams play 18-20 year olds at defense all the time. You can't sit and wait until they are the finished product before bringing them up. If you have a veteran core in front of them, they will be fine.

Don't be afraid to play young players. Throw them into the fire. It's the only way to make them great. Look at Philly, Washington, Chicago, Pittsburgh. They play their young players and it's paying dividends this season

Markov and Komi are here for the next 6 seasons at least. And they will no doubt be top 4 that entire time. I'm going to guess that two of the group of young D-Men we have available to us next season (Subban, McDonagh, Fischer, Emelin, Webber, Carle) are going to be good enough to be top 4 NHL defensemen in time. And these players are available NOW AND NEXT SEASON. Not 3 years down the road.
Ryan O'Byrne turned out to be more of a liability than an asset at this stage of his career. Yes, big, and he can skate, but ugh!

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Old
12-30-2008, 05:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
not if we trade Hamerlik and let go 1 of Kovy/Koivu...
Hamrlik: NTC.

Kovalev and Koivu: Lose one guy for a game and our entire team has to play their very hardest in regular season games ot make up for it. They are not just character, they are heart.

So yeah... don't forget we're gunning for a Cup, and theres a good chance some of our RFA's might have greedy agents... when you win a Cup, everyone who just played for you gets to demand more money.

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Old
12-30-2008, 05:35 PM
  #112
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There's no question if we get Jay Bo, Hammer would have to go just based on not putting all the money on the D. Hammer is a good guy and would understand(probably ).

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Old
12-30-2008, 06:02 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Hamrlik: NTC
Roman Hamrlik, MTL - NTC [full NTC until 2/1/09; partial NTC from 2/1/09 to 2/1/11; no NTC from 2/1/11 after]
http://www.nhlscap.com/no_trade.htm

Does anyone know the details of his partial no trade clause? I'm guessing a list of teams he gives before each season?

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Old
12-30-2008, 06:41 PM
  #114
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[*]Marek Zidlicky MIN:
In my opinion, this is the choice that makes the most sense. Minnesota is very deep on defense, but they seriously lack on offense. We know that they're drooling all over Higgins and I don't think that it would take much more to get Zidlicky, a right handed puck moving defenseman who can play the point on the PP. He's also under contract for a few more years at a reasonable cap hit.
Zidlicky was had for a 2nd rounder and Ryan Jones, now, a few months later, performing at the same pace he has for most of his career, you want to trade Chris Higgins to get him? What caused his value to go up so much in these last few months?

Why does Minnesota, who you say craves goals, and how will apparently be losing Gaborik between now and the deadline ship out an offensive defenseman?

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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
[*]Philippe Boucher PIT:
Once Gonchar and Witney are back in the line-up, Boucher will be expandable for the Pens. Pending UFA, he wouldn't cost too much to get as Pittsburgh gave up Sydor who was their 7th defenseman. Right handed, great shot, tons of experience, would be great alongside Hammer.
You have got to be kidding. Tell the truth: Have you watched him play this season? Hell, have you watched him play last season? Boucher is DONE. He's slow, erractic, broken down and totally washed up. How the hell do you figure he'd be "great" along side Hamrlik? Great at what, exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
[*]Adrian Aucoin CGY:
Much has been said and written about Aucoin, but one fact remains and that's that Gainey tried to sign him as a UFA when Chicago offered more money, so there has to be some interest there. Again, right handed, good shot and paired with Hammer, it would work well. Pending UFA.
Just because Gainey was interested a few years ago doesn't mean they're interested now. (He was interested in Chris Gratton the last two seasons and let him slip by on waivers last month.) You can chalk Aucoin up with Briere on the list of "Dodged Bullets." He was a dissapointment in Chicago and he's been a dissapointment in Calgary too. The Aucoin that was logging big minutes and delivering bombs from the blueline hasn't existed in a several seasons now. He's not nearly as past as Boucher, and yet you've listed him *after* Boucher on your wish-list. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
There you have it. There were others, like Salo or Ohlund in Vancouver, Poti in Washington, Preissing in LA, but I felt that either the team(s) wouldn't trade them, their contract wasn't right or we didn't have what they'd need.
Tom Preissing, in your "other" list is significantly better then all but a few of your preferred choices.

Choosing guys like Boucher, Aucoin and Boynton as "desireables" and suggesting they would be an upgrade for the team really looks a little ... out of date. It's been a few seasons at least since those guys have contributed in a significant way to their teams. Big pass.

But guys like Bouwmeester and my personal first choice (due to the cheaper asking price) Derek Morris are, in my opinion, a great call.

Also, I do think Tom Preissing could be a good fit.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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Old
12-30-2008, 06:50 PM
  #115
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
not if we trade Hamerlik and let go 1 of Kovy/Koivu...
And how does that really help your team. Is J-bo enough of an upgrade over Hamrlik to give up Kovy or Koivu in the process.

Seems to me you are creating a void to not even fill a void on defense.

Montreal needs a dman on top of their top 4 not replacing a top 4 and losing first line player in the process.

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Old
12-30-2008, 09:36 PM
  #116
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If we got Bouwmeester we could forget about signing Komisarek and maybe a couple of others next year. The cap space would be gone and we would be like the Sens. All are eggs in a very few baskets.
I'm fine if we have to forfeit Komo to resign Bouwmeester as he's a much, much better player. Still though, I think that we could resign Komo regardless as it's my humble opinion that he won't fetch as much as some think on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Zidlicky was had for a 2nd rounder and Ryan Jones, now, a few months later, performing at the same pace he has for most of his career, you want to trade Chris Higgins to get him? What caused his value to go up so much in these last few months?

Why does Minnesota, who you say craves goals, and how will apparently be losing Gaborik between now and the deadline ship out an offensive defenseman?
If we can get him for cheaper, the better. We're playing quite well without Higgins in the line-up and if that's what it takes to get Zidlicky, I'm simply saying that I'd go for it.

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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
You have got to be kidding. Tell the truth: Have you watched him play this season? Hell, have you watched him play last season? Boucher is DONE. He's slow, erractic, broken down and totally washed up. How the hell do you figure he'd be "great" along side Hamrlik? Great at what, exactly?
If I was kidding, I wouldn't be posting it. You're more than welcome to disagree though, it's a free world afterall.

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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Just because Gainey was interested a few years ago doesn't mean they're interested now. (He was interested in Chris Gratton the last two seasons and let him slip by on waivers last month.) You can chalk Aucoin up with Briere on the list of "Dodged Bullets." He was a dissapointment in Chicago and he's been a dissapointment in Calgary too. The Aucoin that was logging big minutes and delivering bombs from the blueline hasn't existed in a several seasons now. He's not nearly as past as Boucher, and yet you've listed him *after* Boucher on your wish-list. Yikes.
Instead of arguing with uninformed statements, do yourself a favour and go read on the Calgary board or read the thread proposal between Calgary and Montreal involving Aucoin. There are very few Flames fans who want to see him traded. I get to watch him play here out west and I think that you're highly underestimating what he brings to the table even at this stage in his career.

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Old
12-30-2008, 09:39 PM
  #117
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I'm likely the Marek Zidlicky option

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12-30-2008, 09:48 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I'm fine if we have to forfeit Komo to resign Bouwmeester as he's a much, much better player. Still though, I think that we could resign Komo regardless as it's my humble opinion that he won't fetch as much as some think on this forum.


If we can get him for cheaper, the better. We're playing quite well without Higgins in the line-up and if that's what it takes to get Zidlicky, I'm simply saying that I'd go for it.


If I was kidding, I wouldn't be posting it. You're more than welcome to disagree though, it's a free world afterall.


Instead of arguing with uninformed statements, do yourself a favour and go read on the Calgary board or read the thread proposal between Calgary and Montreal involving Aucoin. There are very few Flames fans who want to see him traded. I get to watch him play here out west and I think that you're highly underestimating what he brings to the table even at this stage in his career.

That's simply because they have a crappy defense beside Phaneuf and Regehr. They need good defenseman more than scoring wingers. Thus, we'd need to overpay to get an over-the-hill Aucoin. We could get something better than Aucoin for what your offering for him.

I don't think we should overpay like that for players with obvious flaws. Zidlicky is another Mark Streit, great on the PP with a good breakout pass, but weak in his own zone. That's why I'm more confortable with guys like Morris or Kuba who are strong in their zone with a good breakout pass without obvious flaws to their game.

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Old
12-30-2008, 09:51 PM
  #119
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I don't think we should overpay like that for players with obvious flaws. Zidlicky is another Mark Streit, great on the PP with a good breakout pass, but weak in his own zone. That's why I'm more confortable with guys like Morris or Kuba who are strong in their zone with a good breakout pass without obvious flaws to their game.
Mark Streit on defense makes Zidlicky look like a Norris candidate. He wouldn't be our best defensive player for sure, but he'd be about like Bouillon defensively, but a better passer and much better offense. Paired up with Hamrlik, he'd be great. Did I mention that he's a right handed shot?

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Old
12-30-2008, 11:39 PM
  #120
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What about Schneider?

He's gotta be an upgrade over Brisebois

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Old
12-31-2008, 10:50 AM
  #121
FerrisRox
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Instead of arguing with uninformed statements, do yourself a favour and go read on the Calgary board or read the thread proposal between Calgary and Montreal involving Aucoin. There are very few Flames fans who want to see him traded. I get to watch him play here out west and I think that you're highly underestimating what he brings to the table even at this stage in his career.
Why would going to the Flames board to see what they think be "doing myself a favour?"

I'd rather just form my opinions by watching the player in question play hockey. Do you form your opinions on players by reading the message board of each team?

Judging by this board, that would mean Alex Kovalev is a terrible NHL player and Guy Carbonneau can't coach at the NHL level. I think I'll stick to evaluating players based on their play, you stick with seeing what the fanboys on each Message Board have to say.

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Old
12-31-2008, 10:57 AM
  #122
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I still think our best option for a #4 is already on the team. Josh Gorges is highly underrated on this board. He is a better fit with Hammer than almost anyone (other than Jay-bo) mentioned in this thread.


Last edited by 5 man unit: 12-31-2008 at 11:21 AM.
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Old
12-31-2008, 10:58 AM
  #123
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Isn't Zidlicky having a subpar season with the Wild? I think I read that awhile back.

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Old
12-31-2008, 11:06 AM
  #124
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I still think our best option for a #4 is already on the team. Josh Goerges is highly underrated on this board. He is a better fit with Hammer than almost anyone (other than Jay-bo) mentioned in this thread.
I think we want another top 4 including gorges being one.

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Old
12-31-2008, 11:06 AM
  #125
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Isn't Zidlicky having a subpar season with the Wild? I think I read that awhile back.
I've read that as well but I don't get to watch the Wild that often, so who knows how much truth there is to it. The big knock on Zidlicky would be his 3.5 cap hit for next season.

Seeing how things are with regards to pending UFA/RFA's it would probably be best to get a 'pure rental' or grab a legitimate 5-6 guy who is cheaper and maybe signed past this season (the progression of Gorges makes this last choice more desirable I think).

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