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Sather's Cap Woes Simply Indefensible

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Old
12-20-2008, 10:34 AM
  #26
Inferno
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
They were?

If Sather wanted pure offense, he signed the wrong guys. I thought he was pretty clear, however, that offensive ability was not the only criteria he was looking for.
not the only ability no, but how about their defensive ability? In terms of +/- amongst forwards Gomez is a team worst 15th at -10, and Drury is not far behind at 12th with a -5. Our team defense has been appalling this season, with the only reason our GAA isnt approaching Antoine Lafleur territory is because of the man behind the pipes.

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12-20-2008, 10:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
not the only ability no, but how about their defensive ability? In terms of +/- amongst forwards Gomez is a team worst 15th at -10, and Drury is not far behind at 12th with a -5. Our team defense has been appalling this season, with the only reason our GAA isnt approaching Antoine Lafleur territory is because of the man behind the pipes.
Well, that's a complete lie but keep believing that if you want. Yes Lundqvist has had some games where he saved the defense. However, the Rangers are one of the best team defenses in the league. You are only basing it on a stretch of about 8 games where they let up a lot of odd man rushes.

The reason the plus minus of those players stinks is because the dopes on the point on the PP have let up 10 shorthanded goals and those 2 players were probably on for about 8 of them. Not to mention that the team has played a ton of games that have gone to overtime or shootouts and were low scoring. Plus minus is a bogus stat. A team that is around .500 but has several blowout wins can have a lot of players with very high plusses.

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12-20-2008, 10:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GratefulDead View Post
Granted Drury and Gomez play the PK and PP, while the PK has been good the PP really added to their +/- so its a skewed statistic. If the PP was better, we would see a lot more +'s on the team
PP is not counted for plusses. SH goals are. Not PP goals.

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12-20-2008, 10:54 AM
  #29
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I think in a lot of ways, it's the lack of good wingers that's hurt the production of the Rangers centers. Hopefully keeping the Naslund/Gomez/Zherdev line together will help Gomez a lot, but Drury still lacks some really good wingers to help him out.

Again, the loss of Cherepanov really hurts this team

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Old
12-20-2008, 11:03 AM
  #30
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Meh....

Honestly if Sather dumped Prucha, Rissmiller and Dawes maybe Kalinin and turned the space into ONE scoring winger and ONE servicable tougher D man this team would have a shot


Lots of great pieces on this team. The big miss on this team has been the "Dormant Offense" experiment. If ANY of those guys had clicked by now this would all be a non issue

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12-20-2008, 11:06 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Duponttime View Post
Well, that's a complete lie but keep believing that if you want. Yes Lundqvist has had some games where he saved the defense. However, the Rangers are one of the best team defenses in the league. You are only basing it on a stretch of about 8 games where they let up a lot of odd man rushes.

The reason the plus minus of those players stinks is because the dopes on the point on the PP have let up 10 shorthanded goals and those 2 players were probably on for about 8 of them. Not to mention that the team has played a ton of games that have gone to overtime or shootouts and were low scoring. Plus minus is a bogus stat. A team that is around .500 but has several blowout wins can have a lot of players with very high plusses.
....seriously....you think this has been a good team defense this season?

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12-20-2008, 11:21 AM
  #32
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Given the smattering of talent the Rangers have under their cap, I can't find myself able to complain about it. There's a lot of good players on this team, they just need to you know, play like it.

And complaining about the Rangers is a lucrative business. Look at all the pessimistic Rangers blogs out there, even Weimans refreshing optimism has been replaced with juvenile passive aggression.

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12-20-2008, 11:30 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dr Mowinckel View Post
Given the smattering of talent the Rangers have under their cap, I can't find myself able to complain about it. There's a lot of good players on this team, they just need to you know, play like it.

And complaining about the Rangers is a lucrative business. Look at all the pessimistic Rangers blogs out there, even Weimans refreshing optimism has been replaced with juvenile passive aggression.
You got it right there.

Brooks knows this will sell more papers. He's catering to the glass is half empty crowd, typical of his column.

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Old
12-20-2008, 11:50 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
not the only ability no, but how about their defensive ability? .
For guys that eat up their fair share of ice time, aren't scoring a lot, and have been victims of minuses on the PP that they have no part in, I really don't think their minuses are indicative of bad defensive play. Watching the games TELLS me that's not the case.

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12-20-2008, 11:58 AM
  #35
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This is coming from the same writer who was clamoring for Sather to give Avery 4 million a year, now he's complaining the Rangers don't have enough cap space currently to sign/trade for theoretical "important" players that may or may not be on the market in the next month.

And people agree with this?

To quote Mugatu, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

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Old
12-20-2008, 12:05 PM
  #36
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Lol all these comlpaining for a team 11 games over 500 and if somehow we beat the sharks which i dont see why we cant play a good game against them you guys would still complain

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12-20-2008, 12:52 PM
  #37
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Selling papers or not....Brooks is right on the money today.

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Old
12-20-2008, 12:58 PM
  #38
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Is Renney ****ing serious? Defensive depth? So what, getting a guy like Shane Hnidy is on the horizon? We don't need a big name or huge trade, but merely getting defensive depth is not going to stabilize the **** show of Redden, Rozsival, and Kalinin...

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Old
12-20-2008, 12:59 PM
  #39
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God I would love Renney and Sather to be gone.

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Old
12-20-2008, 01:05 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Selling papers or not....Brooks is right on the money today.

Absolutely.

To reiterate.... whether Brooks is right or wrong, it's been long over-due for something like this to appear in the print media. Sather and company have gotten a free pass for quite some time. It would be nice to see Zipay & Weinman follow Brook's lead and start hitting them with some tough questions for once (blogs or print). A minuscule amount of people actually read the blogs...therefore I'd much rather see it hit the print.


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Old
12-20-2008, 01:15 PM
  #41
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I love this thread, I should go over to the sharks board and see if they do the same complaining as is done here. I wonder if they worry about their first place team and the impending cap implications. Last I check they won nothing either in the last few years. Maybe they should fire Todd McLellan, and Doug Wilson for not getting the job done. Wilson has totally screwed that team over! With 39 mil tied up in cap space for next season with a ton of rfa's and ufa's next season they are doomed!!!

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Old
12-20-2008, 01:18 PM
  #42
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sather has a way of working things out when he needs to. If something big needs to get done he ll find the room to do it. For now lets focus on San Jose..

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12-20-2008, 01:26 PM
  #43
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sather has a way of working things out when he needs to. If something big needs to get done he ll find the room to do it. For now lets focus on San Jose..
Agreed. I guess some people would rather sit here and worry about stuff they cant fix. The rangers arent in great cap Position ill agree with that. Although i find it hard to bieleve Sather put him self in a poisiton such as this with out some sort of plan or flexibilty he's not that type of guy.

Also I'll maintain that the plan was to add a top 6 winger next year. Sadly that top 6 winger passed away tragically while playing in russia. I think people have to acknowledge that Cherry was a big part of Sather's plan.

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Old
12-20-2008, 01:33 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma View Post
I love this thread, I should go over to the sharks board and see if they do the same complaining as is done here. I wonder if they worry about their first place team and the impending cap implications. Last I check they won nothing either in the last few years. Maybe they should fire Todd McLellan, and Doug Wilson for not getting the job done. Wilson has totally screwed that team over! With 39 mil tied up in cap space for next season with a ton of rfa's and ufa's next season they are doomed!!!
The standings mean nothing to the purpose of the article. The facts are we have huge contracts on this team that are going to be very very hard to trade away, a cap that is going down, and our own RFA's to resign in the summer along with no cap space to add to this first place group that you love so much.

I would be interested to hear your opinion if in the summer if the Rangers have another 2nd round exit and are still in cap hell unless you think the team as it is right now can win the cup.

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Old
12-20-2008, 01:37 PM
  #45
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I've seen just about every single Sharks game this year. Obviously... the Sharks are in much better shape then we are. McLellan successfully implemented a system brought over from Detroit. A system that NYR failed miserably at duplicating early in the season before switching back to the defensive mindset, which is Renney's comfort zone. If there is to be credibility, there must be accountability. You can just tell that the entire Sharks team has fully committed itself to the system. I absolutely love Dan Boyle. What a great pick-up for them. I get so jealous watching him QB the PP.

Renney is clearly not a motivator. He fails miserably at getting the most out of his players. Anyone seen some recent Devil games? Look at who's on that roster, and the defense no less. They put forth an honest effort each and every night.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma View Post
I love this thread, I should go over to the sharks board and see if they do the same complaining as is done here. I wonder if they worry about their first place team and the impending cap implications. Last I check they won nothing either in the last few years. Maybe they should fire Todd McLellan, and Doug Wilson for not getting the job done. Wilson has totally screwed that team over! With 39 mil tied up in cap space for next season with a ton of rfa's and ufa's next season they are doomed!!!


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Old
12-20-2008, 01:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
I've seen just about every single Sharks game this year. Obviously... the Sharks are in much better shape then we are. McLellan successfully implemented a system brought over from Detroit. A system that NYR failed miserably at duplicating early in the season before switching back to the defensive mindset, which is Renney's comfort zone. If there is to be credibility, there must be accountability. You can just tell that the entire Sharks team has fully committed itself to the system. I absolutely love Dan Boyle. What a great pick-up for them. I get so jealous watching him QB the PP.
That was the early part of the season where we were off to one of our best starts in franchise history, right? It baffles me how some people continue to assume Renney "changed the system." What kind of idiot would change the system when we were winning?

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12-20-2008, 01:46 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Gemma View Post
I love this thread, I should go over to the sharks board and see if they do the same complaining as is done here. I wonder if they worry about their first place team and the impending cap implications. Last I check they won nothing either in the last few years. Maybe they should fire Todd McLellan, and Doug Wilson for not getting the job done. Wilson has totally screwed that team over! With 39 mil tied up in cap space for next season with a ton of rfa's and ufa's next season they are doomed!!!
Terrible comparison.

The Sharks score a goal per game more than the Rangers do. They are fourth in goal-scoring while the Rangers are TWENTY-SEVENTH. The Sharks are eighth in power play percentage, the Rangers are twenty-second.

The Sharks have one of the best forwards in the world, in Joe Thornton, an elite offensive blueliner in Dan Boyle, and their leading goalscorer is on a rookie contract. Oh, and while Nabokov may not be as good as Lundqvist, he isn't far behind. Our elite offensive blueliner is Wade Redden, and our best forward is Scott Gomez.

Yeah, I see two similar teams for sure.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, the Sharks also allow LESS GOALS than the Rangers, and while the Rangers penalty killing is tops in the league, the Sharks are fourth.

See that's what people here have a hard time grasping. The best teams in the league are great at both ends of the ice. The Rangers are good at one end and terrible at the other.


Last edited by NYR Sting: 12-20-2008 at 01:53 PM.
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Old
12-20-2008, 01:48 PM
  #48
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If he doesn't want to lose his job he's gonna have to grow a pair soon.

Next summer, FA's ask for a lower price then we offer to avoid criticism. Book it.
I'll bet you money that they won't.

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12-20-2008, 01:49 PM
  #49
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And where is that system now? Did you happen to see the inordinate amount of odd-man rushes? How long did they expect the goaltending to bail them out? Henrik was playing lights out the first 10 plus games. The easy fix was to revert back to the defensive system.

Go back and watch the clips from the first 10 games on Rangers in-demand. i already did it myself. Its painfully obvious what was going on.

Anaheim was the first time in a long time we've seen them actually fore check hard. And it was usually Drury's line.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That was the early part of the season where we were off to one of our best starts in franchise history, right? It baffles me how some people continue to assume Renney "changed the system." What kind of idiot would change the system when we were winning?


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Old
12-20-2008, 01:58 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
For guys that eat up their fair share of ice time, aren't scoring a lot, and have been victims of minuses on the PP that they have no part in, I really don't think their minuses are indicative of bad defensive play. atching the games TELLS me that's not the case.
save me this watching the games nonsense. +/- clearly indicates that they are bad defensive players, so they are. obviously not as bad as renowned defensive liabilities as Rod Brind'Amour (-22), Chris Phillips (-13) or Kris Draper (-10), but obviously they're bad.

+/- is a stat to be used along with logic. when used without, the results are ugly, as Inferno just illustrated.

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