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Old
12-22-2008, 04:40 PM
  #101
Peter Griffin
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Why the heck do the Canucks want Antropov? We have one of the stronger centre groups in the league with Sundin-Sedin-Kesler-Johnson, and if somebody is willing to give up a 1st rounder for Antropov they must be infinitely more desperate for centre depth then Vancouver.
Antropov is much better at wing and doesn't play much center at all. A big, two-way forward capable of 30 goals, 60 points is what this team really needs IMO. The fact he's got great chemistry with Sundin is an added bonus.

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12-22-2008, 04:42 PM
  #102
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I could not give a rats ass about what scouts say. So far his is by FAR the worst Dman out of the ones chosen in the top 10

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12-22-2008, 04:45 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by supeg93 View Post
I could not give a rats ass about what scouts say. So far his is by FAR the worst Dman out of the ones chosen in the top 10
well then its good no one cares what you think as you obviously know nothing.

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12-22-2008, 04:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Islanders25 View Post
But but.... their GM is Brian Burke, and Dave Nonis....
I'm sorry, but I don't get the point you're trying to make? Oh, you were being facetious for no reason? I get it.

Kaberle would become the #1 defenseman on the Canucks. He's an established #1 defenseman, generally viewed as being more valuable on the trade market than an established #1 centre - something that Hodgson has yet to prove he's capable of being. On top of that, you're getting a second player in his prime that has established himself as a strong two-way top six player who is massive and already has chemistry with your new number one center. What else of worth is left? Schneider looks like a solid prospect, but not something to package around in a trade of this magnitude. The first would be a late first rounder, which makes it a so-so pick. Edler? Not a team need, as the Leaf defense is the only part of the team that is coming nicely into its own.

Based on the posts in this thread, you'd think the Canucks were trading a current #1 center and current #1 goaltender along with a first round pick. It always amazes me how many people on this site consistently rate prospects so much higher than long-established talent.

If Gillis isn't willing to give up quality assets, he's not going to get quality upgrades. It doesn't matter who the trading partner is. And since any team that is willing to trade their top players obviously isn't in win-now mode, they're going to want youth. Youth that can make an impact down the road similar to that made by any outgoing players. Why would anyone accept spare parts and marginal prospects that won't fill that criteria?

You get what you pay for, guys.

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12-22-2008, 04:52 PM
  #105
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well then its good no one cares what you think as you obviously know nothing.

Obviously. So you think that this year he has played above average? LOL

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12-22-2008, 04:55 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by supeg93 View Post
Obviously. So you think that this year he has played above average? LOL
I think he has played better then expected. He is still a teenager playing the hardest position to learn to play at the nhl level. When he got hurt he was leading all rookies in blocked shots, hits and second in ice time.

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12-22-2008, 04:58 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
I think he has played better then expected. He is still a teenager playing the hardest position to learn to play at the nhl level. When he got hurt he was leading all rookies in blocked shots, hits and second in ice time.
You dont think that the Ice time is because he plays on the worst team in the NHL?

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12-22-2008, 05:01 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by supeg93 View Post
You dont think that the Ice time is because he plays on the worst team in the NHL?
First the leafs arent the worst team in the NHL, I wish they were I want Tavares.
And second D is one of the Leafs deeper positions.
If you want to bash other teams atleast have some clue what your talking about.

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12-22-2008, 05:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
I think he has played better then expected. He is still a teenager playing the hardest position to learn to play at the nhl level. When he got hurt he was leading all rookies in blocked shots, hits and second in ice time.
A pissing match with this guy isn't worth it, dude. I know his kind. He's long made up his mind on Schenn, and it doesn't matter what evidence you put forth. It's going to get ignored.

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12-22-2008, 05:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Icewind Dale View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't get the point you're trying to make? Oh, you were being facetious for no reason? I get it.

Kaberle would become the #1 defenseman on the Canucks. He's an established #1 defenseman, generally viewed as being more valuable on the trade market than an established #1 centre - something that Hodgson has yet to prove he's capable of being. On top of that, you're getting a second player in his prime that has established himself as a strong two-way top six player who is massive and already has chemistry with your new number one center. What else of worth is left? Schneider looks like a solid prospect, but not something to package around in a trade of this magnitude. The first would be a late first rounder, which makes it a so-so pick. Edler? Not a team need, as the Leaf defense is the only part of the team that is coming nicely into its own.

Based on the posts in this thread, you'd think the Canucks were trading a current #1 center and current #1 goaltender along with a first round pick. It always amazes me how many people on this site consistently rate prospects so much higher than long-established talent.

If Gillis isn't willing to give up quality assets, he's not going to get quality upgrades. It doesn't matter who the trading partner is. And since any team that is willing to trade their top players obviously isn't in win-now mode, they're going to want youth. Youth that can make an impact down the road similar to that made by any outgoing players. Why would anyone accept spare parts and marginal prospects that won't fill that criteria?

You get what you pay for, guys.

That's all said and true, but I mean, when you look at the Canucks prospect pool, we've hardly got anything to look forward to in the future. As of now, there's around 4-5 guys I can see making a measurable impact in the near future, and Hodgson is on top of that list.


Thing being, the Canucks prospect pool has been dry for the last 5 years, and this is the first legitimate time we've had a decent farm to call our own. You'll have to remember that Cody Hodgson was our new General Manager's first round pick, like, ever, and that's something you don't just put into trade proposals without heavy consideration.

Another thing being that Cory Schneider is our failsafe in case Luongo doesn't want to resign during this off-season, so hopefully you can understand why some people might be hesitant to trade him. If we lose both Bobby + Cory, it's deja-vu all over again.


Contracts is a big part of it too. Antropov is great, don't get me wrong, but he's a Free-Agent at the end of this year, and with the Sedins to re-up, Ohlund, and potentially Luongo, that really doesn't help us out cap-wise. Kaberle has a nice contract... but again, I don't really know what Gillis has in mind in the off-season.


That's just a couple things, but maybe you can see why Vancouver really treasures what we have right now.

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Old
12-22-2008, 05:05 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
I think he has played better then expected. He is still a teenager playing the hardest position to learn to play at the nhl level. When he got hurt he was leading all rookies in blocked shots, hits and second in ice time.
hah i care about his opinion. HIs right, luke schenn has been the biggest dissapointment....leaf fans can keep defending him....all other fans know that luke schenn was a mistake.

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12-22-2008, 05:07 PM
  #112
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well since vancouver's come into the league they've at least made the finals twice and toronto....hasn't.
Don't encourage this. Both teams have been equally bad in this regard for 35+ years.

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12-22-2008, 05:10 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MarcBenz View Post
hah i care about his opinion. HIs right, luke schenn has been the biggest dissapointment....leaf fans can keep defending him....all other fans know that luke schenn was a mistake.
Im not getting in a flame war with you. you're not worth my time. Every hockey scout and pundit has praised the selection and play of Luke Schenn. I'll take their word over yours.

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12-22-2008, 05:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Don't encourage this. Both teams have been equally bad in this regard for 35+ years.
Agreed

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12-22-2008, 05:16 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Lupe Fiasco View Post
That's all said and true, but I mean, when you look at the Canucks prospect pool, we've hardly got anything to look forward to in the future. As of now, there's around 4-5 guys I can see making a measurable impact in the near future, and Hodgson is on top of that list.


Thing being, the Canucks prospect pool has been dry for the last 5 years, and this is the first legitimate time we've had a decent farm to call our own. You'll have to remember that Cody Hodgson was our new General Manager's first round pick, like, ever, and that's something you don't just put into trade proposals without heavy consideration.

Another thing being that Cory Schneider is our failsafe in case Luongo doesn't want to resign during this off-season, so hopefully you can understand why some people might be hesitant to trade him. If we lose both Bobby + Cory, it's deja-vu all over again.


Contracts is a big part of it too. Antropov is great, don't get me wrong, but he's a Free-Agent at the end of this year, and with the Sedins to re-up, Ohlund, and potentially Luongo, that really doesn't help us out cap-wise. Kaberle has a nice contract... but again, I don't really know what Gillis has in mind in the off-season.


That's just a couple things, but maybe you can see why Vancouver really treasures what we have right now.
Oh, I agree with much of what you have to say. If the Canucks are limited in their future, then it doesn't make sense for them to trade it away. Coming from a guy who used to be a die-hard Leaf fan, I know this through personal experience, heh.That said, I'm simply pointing out that if Kaberle and Antropov are involved in a trade going to the Canucks, it'll take valuable assets to land them. Very valuable. Hodgson and Schneider are a good place to start. Yeah, it'll hurt, but adding two players who can potentially put your team over the top without subtracting from your active roster is a nice bonus. I think it's something Gillis would think long and hard over.

Gillis is a professional. I don't think he's going to let his sentimentality over Hodgson be a deciding factor if he deals him. These guys are paid big bucks to do what's best for the team.

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12-22-2008, 05:20 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Antropov is much better at wing and doesn't play much center at all. A big, two-way forward capable of 30 goals, 60 points is what this team really needs IMO. The fact he's got great chemistry with Sundin is an added bonus.
So you'd give up our 1st for him? I think there are teams out there who would, but I certainly hope we aren't one of them.

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12-22-2008, 05:25 PM
  #117
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He is a rookie defensive Dman stats dont show everything.
Willie Mitchel was a -16 his first seasona and was alot older then Schenn.
Me thinks your just troling looking to start a fight.
I like Schenn. For a 19 year old to already play the way he does and at a very difficult position says something about his worth. Having said that, you must also see why Canucks fans are not keen on trading our own top prospect in Hodgson? It would be similar to someone proposing for Toronto to trade Schenn. No way you would even consider that unless for a real star player, and even then it depends on who it is. The bottom line is that we are very good as a group without any real individual star players, save for Luongo and in a lesser way Sundin and the twins. Gillis strifes to keep that elusive chemistry by only adding players that fit that mold, i.e. players that are gritty, fast, have leadership abilities are defensively responsible and won't quit(like Kesler for instance). Sure we added players that are not in that mold such as Wellwood, for instance, but those were aquired for either nothing or next to nothing. If you look at all the deals that M Gillis has made sofar, those were the type of deals he has made sofar. In part, it is to help restock or empty cupboards of top prospects. The one player that can give us the best chance in the playoffs is always going to be Luongo and any other parts we aquire might only offset the good chemistry the team is enjoying right now as some players need to be waived or traded then. Sometimes team chemistry can get a team much further then loads of talent can do for you, and all it needs is just to get going at the right time.
I honestly doubt that any big trades are going to be made by Mike Gillis and only some minor ones at the trading deadline or just before it. Just my 2 cts worth of opinion though and could very well be proved wrong.


Last edited by Christina: 12-22-2008 at 05:45 PM.
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Old
12-22-2008, 05:45 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Kessie View Post
I like Schenn. For a 19 year old to already play the way he does and at a very difficult position says something about his worth. Having said that, you must also see why Canucks fans are not keen on trading our own top prospect in Hodgson? It would be similar to someone proposing for Toronto to trade Schenn. No way you would even consider that unless for a real star player, and even then it depends on who it is. The bottom line is that we are very good as a group without any real individual star players, save for Luongo and in a lesser way Sundin and the twins. Gillis strifes to keep that elusive chemistry by only adding players that fit that mold, i.e. players that are gritty, fast, have leadership abilities and won't quit(like Kesler for instance). Sure we added players that are not in that mold such as Wellwood, for instance, but those were aquired for either nothing or next to nothing. If you look at all the deals that M Gillis has made sofar, those were the type of deals he has made sofar. In part, it is to help restock or empty cupboards of top prospects. The one player that can give us the best chance in the playoffs is always going to be Luongo and any other parts we aquire might only offset the good chemistry the team is enjoying right now as some players need to be waived or traded then. Sometimes team chemistry can get a team much further then loads of talent can do for you, and all it needs is just to get going at the right time.
I honestly doubt that any big trades are going to be made by Mike Gillis and only some minor ones at the trading deadline or just before it. Just my 2 cts worth of opinion though and could very well be proved wrong.
I completely understand why you dont want to trade him, I think most leafs fans see the same things that you do and want him for those reasons. I have tried to keep Hodgson out of the proposals because I know he is pretty close to untouchable. But then if Kaberle is to go the other nucks(which probably wont happen) young players like Edler or Schnieder will have to go the other way.

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12-22-2008, 05:46 PM
  #119
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Random but my sister in law was actually one of Cody Hodgson's teachers in high school.

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12-22-2008, 06:06 PM
  #120
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I completely understand why you dont want to trade him, I think most leafs fans see the same things that you do and want him for those reasons. I have tried to keep Hodgson out of the proposals because I know he is pretty close to untouchable. But then if Kaberle is to go the other nucks(which probably wont happen) young players like Edler or Schnieder will have to go the other way.
Edler would be a lateral move for us to do as we are barely hanging on to enough d-men that can play top minutes. Schneider makes the most sense if we only had more depth in goalie prospects, but sadly we don't. I would think that the earliest that Schneider would become avaiable is in the offseason when we are allowed to resign Luongo and know more then. I really wish that our teams could help each other out as I like Toronto and the way they play lately, but I don't think that it is a good fit at the moment. I do understand that your team wants the best deal avaiable for Kaberle as he is a quality d-man and you should expect a good return for him. Sadly, we can't afford to do so at the moment. I really hope Toronto can get good value for him and Antropov though and that they can become a contender in a very short time. I like Burke when he was here and still think that he was not allowed to really do too much due to meddling from higherup. Same thing happened with Quinn, I think. No real proof though but just reading inbetween the lines of what those people have said during their tenure here. Nonis was the first one under new ownership that had more control over things and he managed to fill a bit of our stock of better prospects. You guys have a good leadership base in Burke and Nonis and hope that both our teams will be real cup contenders in a few years from now(we always have a chace with Luongo, but without him we are not cup contenders and even with him, we have to hope that he gets into one of his hot streaks to go far).

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12-22-2008, 06:08 PM
  #121
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Random but my sister in law was actually one of Cody Hodgson's teachers in high school.
Did she say anything about Cody? I am really impressed with what I see from him at the worlds(junior).

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12-22-2008, 06:20 PM
  #122
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We need another forward. I think Raymond to Manitoba, or Pyatt via waivers in order to fit another top-6 would push us to the next level.

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12-22-2008, 06:20 PM
  #123
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One little point of interest for every Nucks fan viewing Antro as a throw in. He would be 3rd in team points and 2nd in scoring if he joined the Nucks today. So don't think you get him for a mild prospect.

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12-22-2008, 06:27 PM
  #124
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Edler would be a lateral move for us to do as we are barely hanging on to enough d-men that can play top minutes. Schneider makes the most sense if we only had more depth in goalie prospects, but sadly we don't. I would think that the earliest that Schneider would become avaiable is in the offseason when we are allowed to resign Luongo and know more then. I really wish that our teams could help each other out as I like Toronto and the way they play lately, but I don't think that it is a good fit at the moment. I do understand that your team wants the best deal avaiable for Kaberle as he is a quality d-man and you should expect a good return for him. Sadly, we can't afford to do so at the moment. I really hope Toronto can get good value for him and Antropov though and that they can become a contender in a very short time. I like Burke when he was here and still think that he was not allowed to really do too much due to meddling from higherup. Same thing happened with Quinn, I think. No real proof though but just reading inbetween the lines of what those people have said during their tenure here. Nonis was the first one under new ownership that had more control over things and he managed to fill a bit of our stock of better prospects. You guys have a good leadership base in Burke and Nonis and hope that both our teams will be real cup contenders in a few years from now(we always have a chace with Luongo, but without him we are not cup contenders and even with him, we have to hope that he gets into one of his hot streaks to go far).
Well said, I think we share a very similar opinion but from different sides. Im a Leafs fan but I like the Canucks and want to see them do well and its one team it wouldn't bother me too see some of the players i like go to. If they have to go I would rather see them go to a team I would still enjoy watching. But like you said I dont know that they are a good fit as trading partners.

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12-22-2008, 06:59 PM
  #125
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So you'd give up our 1st for him? I think there are teams out there who would, but I certainly hope we aren't one of them.
I'd consider it, but in the end I probably wouldn't move the 1st for Antropov. There are no guarantees that any team would offer their 1st though.

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