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Old
12-21-2008, 08:27 PM
  #26
Joey McMoss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Cup View Post
Have you watched a hockey game before? Visnovsky is good but to say he evens out the difference between Spezza and Horcoff is hilarious! The Sens don't want to pay a guy 5.6 million for Horcoff when they can keep Spezza for 7 million and retain much better offensive output.

How exactly does this help Ottawa? We lose a top shutdown D and get an offensive D whose output has decreased in every season since 2005-06. If he's a 40 point d-man then he's overpaid, and it doesn't seem like he's going to be doing much more than that. Horcoff is enigmatic, and possesses defensive skills but we already have good defensive centers in Fisher, Vermette, Kelly.

Ottawa and Edmonton could make decent trading partners, but not on this scale. I could see something from Edmonton involving Penner (signed by Murray as GM of the Ducks), or Erik Cole who can't seem to fit in Edmonton, and on the Ottawa side names like Vermette, Kelly, Schubert and possible picks involved.
Horcoff has showed he is an established # 1 center by putting up 50 points in 53 games last year until he got injured. Hes having a decent year this year . Spezza is definetly better than Horc but if you were to loose Spezz he would be a great fill in for him. Vishnovsky is a long shot away from Phillips IMO. 3rd best defensive scorer since the lockout. On a great contract for those types of stats. Vishnovsky is good defensively also hes not just an offensive scorer.

Vishnovsky absolutely does fill the gap of Spezza and Horcoff. If edmonton adds a 2nd round pick or a mid propspect than it evens this out but there is not much of a difference.

Both teams have not met what they are expected out of them this year and both teams need a shakeup. Edmonton has shown interest in Spezza in the past. We dont need guys like Kelly Schubert... maybe Vermettte because of his great faceoff ability but we need a big change. Spezza seems like a good start.

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Old
12-21-2008, 08:33 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
I hope that was a joke. If not your a joke. If this happens than edmonton immediatly becomes a contender. I dont get how this is a blow out for Ottawa?

Horcoff<Spezza
Vishnovsky>Phillips
??????

Seems fair to me.
well shoot, when you put the arrows in that clears everything up.

how about this:

Hemsky and Smid for Fisher and Picard

Fisher<Hemsky
Smid>Picard

Seems fair to me.

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Old
12-21-2008, 08:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Horcoff has showed he is an established # 1 center by putting up 50 points in 53 games last year until he got injured. Hes having a decent year this year . Spezza is definetly better than Horc but if you were to loose Spezz he would be a great fill in for him. Vishnovsky is a long shot away from Phillips IMO. 3rd best defensive scorer since the lockout. On a great contract for those types of stats. Vishnovsky is good defensively also hes not just an offensive scorer.

Vishnovsky absolutely does fill the gap of Spezza and Horcoff. If edmonton adds a 2nd round pick or a mid propspect than it evens this out but there is not much of a difference.

Both teams have not met what they are expected out of them this year and both teams need a shakeup. Edmonton has shown interest in Spezza in the past. We dont need guys like Kelly Schubert... maybe Vermettte because of his great faceoff ability but we need a big change. Spezza seems like a good start.
If Horcoff is such a good, established number one center then why are all the Oilers fans keen to get rid of him? In terms of ability it's way too much of a downgrade from a guy who's got 269 points in the three seasons post lockout to a guy who has one season of more than 51 points.

What's the deal with Cole? Has he not been gelling with linemates, or does he seem slow or lacking in strength/motivation? I'd be down with getting him at some point.

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Old
12-21-2008, 09:04 PM
  #29
Joey McMoss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Cup View Post
If Horcoff is such a good, established number one center then why are all the Oilers fans keen to get rid of him? In terms of ability it's way too much of a downgrade from a guy who's got 269 points in the three seasons post lockout to a guy who has one season of more than 51 points.

What's the deal with Cole? Has he not been gelling with linemates, or does he seem slow or lacking in strength/motivation? I'd be down with getting him at some point.
I dont think we are keen on getting rid of him but if theres a deal with Spezza or Kovalchuk hed be involved. I dont know if Cole fits in the style of play edmonton has. Hes found himself on the 3rd line because of it. Hes not slow or lacking any strength/motivation but theres definetly something about edmonton he does not have any fit for. I think hed be great in Ottawa.

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Old
12-21-2008, 09:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Cup View Post
If Horcoff is such a good, established number one center then why are all the Oilers fans keen to get rid of him? In terms of ability it's way too much of a downgrade from a guy who's got 269 points in the three seasons post lockout to a guy who has one season of more than 51 points.

What's the deal with Cole? Has he not been gelling with linemates, or does he seem slow or lacking in strength/motivation? I'd be down with getting him at some point.
Trust me, you don't want either right now.

I do appreciate, though, the fact that one of us (Oiler fans) is offering up Visnovsky, I think that he is the puck mover Ottawa is looking for and something that a lot of fans would not like to see leave.
What about Souray? I would hate to get rid of him... but would he fit in better? Would he have more value to the Sens?

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Old
12-21-2008, 09:07 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
well shoot, when you put the arrows in that clears everything up.

how about this:

Hemsky and Smid for Fisher and Picard

Fisher<Hemsky
Smid>Picard

Seems fair to me.
wow at least use an example that makes somewhat sense.. like mine. My point is that Vishnovsky is better than Phillips and Spezza is better than Horcoff. Vishnovsky fills the gap between Spezza and Horcoff with a little more value leaving Phillips and not much more value. a 2nd round pick would make it more even. But seriously dont make a stupid comment like this to get a laugh..

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Old
12-21-2008, 09:27 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
The stats are all there, look them up.
Unfortunately hockey is about a hell of a lot more than stats.

Although I do feel Visnovsky is often overlooked, Ottawa is still bent over in this proposed deal.

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bass Lee View Post
Unfortunately hockey is about a hell of a lot more than stats.

Although I do feel Visnovsky is often overlooked, Ottawa is still bent over in this proposed deal.
If we are talking about players that are lacking in intangibles, you have nothing to stand on in this proposal. Spezza is basically defined by his stats, he adds almost no intangibles. Certainly no more than Visnovsky.

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:58 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
If we are talking about players that are lacking in intangibles, you have nothing to stand on in this proposal. Spezza is basically defined by his stats, he adds almost no intangibles. Certainly no more than Visnovsky.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

go watch spezza more often kthxbai

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

go watch spezza more often kthxbai
Internet laughing does not constitute an argument. Spezza is not an intangibles player, or at least not in the magical land of the other poster who believes that Visnovsky's stats don't reflect his overall play.

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:16 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
Internet laughing does not constitute an argument. Spezza is not an intangibles player, or at least not in the magical land of the other poster who believes that Visnovsky's stats don't reflect his overall play.
*sigh*

You haven't watched the Sens, or Jason Spezza, this season. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

That being said, this deal is garbage for the Senators.

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:52 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Id love to see once in a while a proposal involving the Panthers which doesnt involve them giving up their better players for ridiculous returns.
Really?! I'd of thought that if Florida fans could have ONE wish, they'd wish for a REAL LIFE trade which doesn't involve them giving up their better players for ridiculous returns.

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Old
12-22-2008, 03:16 PM
  #38
Neil Patrick Harris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
Internet laughing does not constitute an argument. Spezza is not an intangibles player, or at least not in the magical land of the other poster who believes that Visnovsky's stats don't reflect his overall play.
If stats reflect overall play, should we assume that he's been getting worse every year since 05-06, his stats show that.

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Old
12-23-2008, 02:03 AM
  #39
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The Sens give up way too much in this deal. How about Vermette and a pick instead of Spezza?

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Old
12-23-2008, 06:54 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Neil Patrick Harris View Post
If stats reflect overall play, should we assume that he's been getting worse every year since 05-06, his stats show that.
Except his stats this year are better then last year...

On pace for more points. On pace for wayyy more goals, on pace for a wayyyyy better +/-

If anyone is trending downhill it is Spezza.

PS. NPH Came out of the closet, is that why he is your hero?

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Old
12-23-2008, 06:58 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Horcoff has showed he is an established # 1 center by putting up 50 points in 53 games last year until he got injured. Hes having a decent year this year . Spezza is definetly better than Horc but if you were to loose Spezz he would be a great fill in for him. Vishnovsky is a long shot away from Phillips IMO. 3rd best defensive scorer since the lockout. On a great contract for those types of stats. Vishnovsky is good defensively also hes not just an offensive scorer.

Vishnovsky absolutely does fill the gap of Spezza and Horcoff. If edmonton adds a 2nd round pick or a mid propspect than it evens this out but there is not much of a difference.

Both teams have not met what they are expected out of them this year and both teams need a shakeup. Edmonton has shown interest in Spezza in the past. We dont need guys like Kelly Schubert... maybe Vermettte because of his great faceoff ability but we need a big change. Spezza seems like a good start.
If Visnovsky was so great you would figure fans of his team wouldn't spell his name wrong.

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Old
12-23-2008, 07:15 AM
  #42
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The trade with Ottawa works for both teams. Phillips doesn't have enough offensive upside so they switch with Visnovsky. Ottawa doesn't have enough grit and Edmonton doesn't have a #1 center... so they switch.

I think Edmonton needs to send a prospect along with Horc and Vishnovsky.

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Old
12-23-2008, 08:30 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
The trade with Ottawa works for both teams. Phillips doesn't have enough offensive upside so they switch with Visnovsky. Ottawa doesn't have enough grit and Edmonton doesn't have a #1 center... so they switch.

I think Edmonton needs to send a prospect along with Horc and Vishnovsky.
Edmonton does not want Spezza without Horcoff going the other way, end of story.

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Old
12-23-2008, 08:48 AM
  #44
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Wow. Edmonton makes out like bandits on both deals.

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Old
12-23-2008, 08:57 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Horcoff has showed he is an established # 1 center by putting up 50 points in 53 games last year until he got injured. Hes having a decent year this year . Spezza is definetly better than Horc but if you were to loose Spezz he would be a great fill in for him. Vishnovsky is a long shot away from Phillips IMO. 3rd best defensive scorer since the lockout. On a great contract for those types of stats. Vishnovsky is good defensively also hes not just an offensive scorer.

Vishnovsky absolutely does fill the gap of Spezza and Horcoff. If edmonton adds a 2nd round pick or a mid propspect than it evens this out but there is not much of a difference.

Both teams have not met what they are expected out of them this year and both teams need a shakeup. Edmonton has shown interest in Spezza in the past. We dont need guys like Kelly Schubert... maybe Vermettte because of his great faceoff ability but we need a big change. Spezza seems like a good start.
Stopped reading right there. Horcoff an established #1 C? Yea right... You must have forgot the

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Old
12-23-2008, 09:07 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
If we are talking about players that are lacking in intangibles, you have nothing to stand on in this proposal. Spezza is basically defined by his stats, he adds almost no intangibles. Certainly no more than Visnovsky.
you have to also take age into account, as Spezza is a couple of years from his prime, so he is still getting better, while the other guys... you see what you get

there really is no point in making our team 5+ years older

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