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The Stigma of being David Aebischer...

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Old
03-05-2004, 12:39 AM
  #1
fcbarcelona
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The Stigma of being David Aebischer...

His stats are very good. He's been the Avalanche's most consistent player this year and is, imo, colorado's MVP. But, there are many doubters. Pierre McQauck and Glenn "I got attitude but no talent" Healy, for instance, believe Aebi is the weak link in the Avs. I honestly believe, however, that if Aebi's name was instead, Guy Trudeau, for example, he wouldn't have so many doubters against him. The fact that he's Swiss holds such a strong stigma among many "hockey experts" is unjustified. He's come through in the clutch while having to deal with the pressure of replacing Roy, playing for a contender, playing through trade rumours, and playing on a team that is marginal defensively. I feel sorry for Aebischer...the hockey world is largely stacked against him, just waiting for the moment he fails. That suits me just fine though, because he's sure gonna be motivated. Moreover, he has an uncanny ability in dealing with pressure. Not much bothers the guy. I anticipate there is a good chance he could have a solid post-season. He won't steal many games, like Roy had done consistently, but he'll give the Avs a chance to win.

EDIT: go to posts 43-5 for greater clarification.


Last edited by fcbarcelona: 03-07-2004 at 05:11 AM.
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03-05-2004, 12:42 AM
  #2
Catala
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The answer? Step up in this year playoffs, and he won't ever have a problem.

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03-05-2004, 12:49 AM
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Being Roys successor on a contending team is pretty hard. He has impressed me this far. I do agree that if he had been from Quebec media would probably be more positive, claiming he was the next in a long line of great goalies from the province. But its no big deal in the end. He seems a pretty calm and balanced guy that is extremely dedicated to his job.

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03-05-2004, 01:12 AM
  #4
Les Zarbites
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It's not because he's swiss. It's because he has no playoffs experience. Having an inexperienced coach and goalie for contending team is suicide IMHO. But I guess we'll see what the future has in store for the avs.

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03-05-2004, 01:41 AM
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Let's just hope the teams underrate him too...


He'll get his chance to shut everyone up in the playoffs,
and I hope he'll do just that

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03-05-2004, 01:43 AM
  #6
Brad Tolliver
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It has more to do with the fact that he is not even the best Swiss goalie in the Western Conference.

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03-05-2004, 01:49 AM
  #7
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Tony Granato can and will be outcoached . He is the weak link not Aebischer. Not many coaches who do not gain lower level experience have any top level success. Granato was predictably outcoached by a weaker Minnesota team even though the talent gap was a huge as you will ever see.

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03-05-2004, 01:53 AM
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Les Zarbites
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwisshockeyAcademy
Tony Granato can and will be outcoached . He is the weak link not Aebischer. Not many coaches who do not gain lower level experience have any top level success. Granato was predictably outcoached by a weaker Minnesota team even though the talent gap was a huge as you will ever see.
I also worry more about Granato than Aebischer ...

Aebischer has the potential to do it. I think he can but the playoffs are a whole different ball game.

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03-05-2004, 02:09 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
I also worry more about Granato than Aebischer ...

Aebischer has the potential to do it. I think he can but the playoffs are a whole different ball game.
i agree id worry much more about granato than Abby.
It seems all year these bad Kolzig rumors have dogged him...pretty stupid considering his excellent play this year.


Give the kid a break...hell do fine

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03-05-2004, 02:29 AM
  #10
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REALITY CHECK

Aebischer is a great goalie.
Aebisher will probably do fine in the playoffs.
Aebisher will probably not choke.
Aebisher will probably hold his own against experienced opponents.
Aebisher will probably take him team as far as it takes him.

BUT

You are talking about a franchise here. Yes, that serious, the franchise is in jeopardy. I am exagerating but:

1.) If the avs bow out in the first round, they are forfeiting around 30 mils in revenue. suppose they play 10 less playoff games, they lose 15 mils in ticket sales, 7.5 mils in tv deals and 7.5 mils in merchandise and beer/food money at the pepsi center
2.) Forsberg may return to sweden next year......
3.) The CBA may shut down the league after next year while the avs' core get older
4.) Lacroix and Granato may both be fired
5.) Fan lose interest and endorsement deals take a hit too and future prospect endorsements lose focus on avs
6.) Kariya may leave Colorado next year if he doesn't win a cup

As you see, the POTENTIAL factors could very well prove to be extremely depressing for the avs. while aebisher will "probably" play well, but why take chances when kolzig can be had for a 2nd rounder or fernandez for a 3rd and a 4th and turek for free?

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03-05-2004, 02:31 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
It has more to do with the fact that he is not even the best Swiss goalie in the Western Conference.
ummm, yeah, sure. Just keep telling yourself that.

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03-05-2004, 03:07 AM
  #12
Brad Tolliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
ummm, yeah, sure. Just keep telling yourself that.
I don't have to. His choke job against Vancouver says plenty enough.

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03-05-2004, 03:10 AM
  #13
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Aebi does not have to be Roy in the playoffs. Hopefully nobody expects him to preform like Roy did or you can't help set yourself up for a dissapointment. Unfortunately, every move Aebi makes in the playoffs will be compared to Roy and this is very unfair to Aebi.

What I also can't understand is that while the Avs are pretty much resting their hopes on Aebi; the Bruins, who have just loaded up for what appears to be a serious cup run, also are going to stick with a young goalie who is in his first year of NHL competition. Where are the Kolzig to the Bruins trade rumors? Why aren't people yelling at O'Connell to make a trade for the alleged more experienced goalie?

No granted they do have a back-up in Potvin who can step in for him, but he hasn't really preformed brilliantly. Sauve's numbers are just about as good as his and Lacroiux still may go out and aquire a veteran back-up.

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03-05-2004, 03:18 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
I don't have to. His choke job against Vancouver says plenty enough.
That's not really a choke job. Games vary all the time, like look at the last two games Vancouver and Colorado played. The first, both goalies were very good and the teams were committed to playing solid defense adn Vancouver was able barely win it. The second game was an offensive affair, in that the Avs came out firing the puck and playing an offensive game; Vancouver had no choice but to respond by playing an offensive game. Aebi didn't play his best game but most certainly neither did Cloutier. You come off looking pretty stupid when you say one teams goalie choked and not mention the other teams goalie, when both goalies let in the same number of goals. Your whole argument is flawed as both goalies kept their team in it and would not let the 6th goal go in.

Aebi has yet to really choke in a game, the game that sticks out in my mind in which he played poorly was when he played for relief of Sauve after Edmonton jumped out to a huge lead and all the momentum was in the Oilers favour throughout the enitre game.

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03-05-2004, 03:37 AM
  #15
Brad Tolliver
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Blowing a 5-3 3rd period lead when you captain had already gotten a hat trick is most definitely a choke, especially when the other goalie was Cloutier. Everytime the Avs pulled out a big lead Aebischer managed to blow it.

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03-05-2004, 03:41 AM
  #16
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I'm getting tired of the tendency posters on this board have of throwing out vague accusations of Canadian prejudice in order to justify their opinions.

A player not getting recognition? Canadian homerism
A player gets shafted? Canadian xenophobia
A player is given apt praise? Ofcourse, he's a "good ole Canadian boy.."

There seems to be the opinion that, in stark contrast to the reality (or supposed reality..I have my doubts) of Canada as a country, that the hockey world is dominated by a foreigner-fearing, prejudice and xenophobic Canadian majority; one that is dead-set on maintaining some imaginary old-boys club.

Yes, this mentality exists. To deny the presense of the Cherrys and the McGuires (who contrary to Bob McKenzie's posts on here, I still believe is hugely bias in favour of Canadians - see his WJC coverage for proof of that) would be naive. But it's equally naive to assume this minority is representative of the Canadian hockey community as a whole.

It's this rising stigma that forced many people to do a double-take when the Tie Domi loving, Don Cherry worshiping, good-ole Canajun boy capital of the world, Toronto voted *gasp* ferener Mats Sundin as the most loved athlete in the city.

The accusations abound on this board reflect the trend that, as long as something represents a majority that it's ok to launch accusations at them. Well I'm Canadian, and subsequently I'm of the hockey majority, and I take offense to the cries of prejudice that I see this board. As a Canadian I think..no, I know that we're better than that.

Jerichoholic,

Your point is sound. However, if you want my opinion, Abi's problem is not with a home-town conspiracy. His problem, rather, is the fact that he's filling the boots of possibly, the greatest goalkeeper to ever live. For further information on this problem, consult Steve Young.

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Old
03-05-2004, 03:41 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catala
The answer? Step up in this year playoffs, and he won't ever have a problem.
Tell that to Brent Johnson and Brian Boucher. Incidentally, you can reach them at the same mailing address now, which should save you postage.

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03-05-2004, 05:22 AM
  #18
Freudian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
Blowing a 5-3 3rd period lead when you captain had already gotten a hat trick is most definitely a choke, especially when the other goalie was Cloutier. Everytime the Avs pulled out a big lead Aebischer managed to blow it.
And no other team in the league this season has failed to protect a two goal lead?

Neither Aebischer or Cloutier had a fantastic game, but hardly a very bad one by any means. If you are trying to build a case against Aebischer you have to do better than this. He has been pretty solid for most of the season and he deservedly is in top ten for GAA, SV% and wins. More often than not he has been better than the team in front of him.

But of course we should ignore all the games where he is solid and focus on a single game. It is much easier to dismiss him that way.

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03-05-2004, 05:50 AM
  #19
Brad Tolliver
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A goalie had these stats last year:

GP W L T GAA TGA SV SV% TSA SO
58 33 15 10 1.83 102 1266 .925 1368 6

And didn't last past second round.

Regular season stats mean nothing in the playoffs. Turco had a better season than Giguere last year and what ended up happening? The two teams that went to the finals last year did so because their goalies stepped up when they needed to.

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03-05-2004, 06:20 AM
  #20
Freudian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
A goalie had these stats last year:

GP W L T GAA TGA SV SV% TSA SO
58 33 15 10 1.83 102 1266 .925 1368 6

And didn't last past second round.

Regular season stats mean nothing in the playoffs. Turco had a better season than Giguere last year and what ended up happening? The two teams that went to the finals last year did so because their goalies stepped up when they needed to.
So regular season stats don't mean anything but a single game in mars does? Have I understood your argument correctly?

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03-05-2004, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
Blowing a 5-3 3rd period lead when you captain had already gotten a hat trick is most definitely a choke, especially when the other goalie was Cloutier. Everytime the Avs pulled out a big lead Aebischer managed to blow it.
So poor defensive coverage had nothing to do with it? Please. Both teams were guilty of bad defensive coverage(Vancouver for backing off too much on Sakic and Colorado for scrambling in the defensive zone when the puck started bouncing). Sure, Aeibischer didn't have his strongest game but it's not like his team stepped it up defensively to help him out either.
Is Aeibischer unproven in the playoffs? Yes, but at least give him a shot at it before you go putting him down.
If PL gets a vet goaltender, it's for insurance purposes ONLY, NOT to replace Aeibischer. He's their #1 and has played well all season.
Granato is the weak link. He had Roy in net last season and got outcoached. So even having one of the greatest goaltenders of all time between the pipes doesn't help much if your coach can't coach in the playoffs.
The problem is until Aeibischer proves himself in the playoffs and steals a few games, he'll always be in Roy's shadow. Heck it might even take a Cup before that happens.

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03-05-2004, 11:06 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
Blowing a 5-3 3rd period lead when you captain had already gotten a hat trick is most definitely a choke, especially when the other goalie was Cloutier. Everytime the Avs pulled out a big lead Aebischer managed to blow it.
Allowing Vancouver Canucks to stand unmolested in the slot waiting for a pass from Markus Naslund is also another way to blow a lead. The blame for Colorado's loss falls squarely on four players: Steve Moore (nice giveway), Karlis Skrastins (tying up your man is more important than retrieving your stick), Derek Morris (hey, try to not suck) and Teemu Selanne (see Derek Morris). It's clear you didn't watch the game, so why make idiotic comments? Goaltending was solid that night, for both sides.

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03-05-2004, 11:10 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Allowing Vancouver Canucks to stand unmolested in the slot waiting for a pass from Markus Naslund is also another way to blow a lead. The blame for Colorado's loss falls squarely on four players: Steve Moore (nice giveway), Karlis Skrastins (tying up your man is more important than retrieving your stick), Derek Morris (hey, try to not suck) and Teemu Selanne (see Derek Morris). It's clear you didn't watch the game, so why make idiotic comments? Goaltending was solid that night, for both sides.
Didn't Naslund make a sweet pass to Tanguay on Sakic's first goal?

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03-05-2004, 12:48 PM
  #24
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Where are the Kolzig to Boston rumours?

The Bruins are cheap they can't afford the luxury of paying someone 13 million dollars to be an insurance policy in case the guy with no playoff experience flops.

I would be most worried about Granato's coaching abilities and the lack of depth in your front line scoring. Defense and goaltending is fine in Colorado (tho a backup other than Sauve should and will be found).. better make sure Forsberg feels like playing come playoffs too. Sakic, Hejduk, Tanguay can't outscore the opposition every night.

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03-05-2004, 01:05 PM
  #25
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I dont think that being Swiss has anything to do with the caution around Abby in the playoffs... and if that's what Avs fans are hearing, you should question your own race-obsessed media... I personally don't think it's even a case that has been brought up anywhere outside of some fan's minds...

why Abby is being questioned is cause he's never played in the playoffs and he's being asked to lead a $70mill payroll team to the Cup... that's a huge task for any goalie, let alone a playoff rookie...

I think that Abby has had a fantastic season, but he's yet to get tested under the mental pressures of the playoffs... there have been some great experienced goalies who have fallen under that kind of pressure and there are very few (Dryden, Roy) who have actually succeeded under that kind of pressure in their early years... while Abby isn't a rookie, this is the first time he's trying to lead a team with a lot of pressure into the playoffs - really we don't know how he will respond.

why many analysts feel that it's a bad move to go with Abby is because history is stacked against Abby being successful... I do agree with many of them despite feeling he's playing great hockey right now... it's not so much that Abby can't do it, it's that do you risk it?? the Avs are in a total win-now mode... Selanne and Kariya are UFAs, and Forsberg's future is uncertain - this season is when you have to step up, and when you have a $70mill payroll trying to take you there, adding an experienced guy - even in a backup role as assurance - is never a bad idea.

bottom line is that Abby has proven as much as Turco had going into last year's playoffs - except Turco still put up better numbers last year... I doubt any Dallas fans had even entertained the notion that Turco wouldn't be successful in the playoffs - and while the loss was certainly not his fault, not being able to carry the team to the next round is the pressure which every goalie leading a "favorite" team has to deal with....

whether Abby is able to deal with that pressure and succeed through it is anyone's guess - certainly looking at regular season numbers and play isn't going to prove anything... the confidence in him should definitely be there - but the risk of going into the playoffs with him and a rookie backup like Sauve is definitely a risk IMO.

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