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What's going on with these "new" Panthers?

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12-24-2008, 09:53 AM
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What's going on with these "new" Panthers?

Hi Guys. Merry Christmas to all. I've enjoyed reading all your posts throughout the year.

Here's a question. At one point, the Panthers were tied for the worst team in the conference at one point. Nothing seemed to be working. All of us remember how painful it was to watch. Bouwmeester was a dud. No-one was scoring. There were huge holes in the defense. They were taking a lot of penalties. If they had a lead in the third, you knew they were going to lose it.

The team has since climbed steadily in the standings. They are playing good, exciting hockey. If I get this right, the announcers last night said that Florida has more shutouts than any other team in the NHL.

So what changed? What do you think made the difference? And do you agree with DeBoer when he says that he doesn't think the Panthers have played their best hockey yet?

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12-24-2008, 10:24 AM
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Yeah, I agree with coach DeBoer. The difference? They were still learning his system before, now not so much.

Of course, there's still coaching and learning to be done, but a lot of it is confidence. Not only confidence that you can win, but each player is gaining confidence in each decision he makes, because similar decisions in recent past have yielded positive results.

That's my take.

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12-24-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers/Leafs fan View Post
Hi Guys. Merry Christmas to all. I've enjoyed reading all your posts throughout the year.

Here's a question. At one point, the Panthers were tied for the worst team in the conference at one point. Nothing seemed to be working. All of us remember how painful it was to watch. Bouwmeester was a dud. No-one was scoring. There were huge holes in the defense. They were taking a lot of penalties. If they had a lead in the third, you knew they were going to lose it.

The team has since climbed steadily in the standings. They are playing good, exciting hockey. If I get this right, the announcers last night said that Florida has more shutouts than any other team in the NHL.

So what changed? What do you think made the difference? And do you agree with DeBoer when he says that he doesn't think the Panthers have played their best hockey yet?
1. Injuries to key players forced the remnants of the team to develop an "us against the world" mentality. Players hungry for roster spots and playing time were given an opportunity. The team became desperate.

2. Players are staying within the system. It seems everyone knows where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing and are executing without hesitation. Confidence? Yes. Buying into the system? Yes. Coaching? Yes.

3. McCabe & Ballard are a huge upgrade on the blueline over Allen for this style of play. Bouw has elevated his game. Having three D-man who can skate, pass & shoot at an elite level makes a world of difference.

4. Frolik. Without Frolik on the roster this streak does not exist. He is the playmaker that this team has been sorely lacking for years. He makes things happen almost every shift. I think you can make a valid argument that he is the most skilled forward on the team right now... and he should only get better.

5. Waiving/trading Belak. Nice guy. Laid back. Wrong attitude for this team. It looks like Martin's/DeBoer's message was received.

6. Martin. Even the haters have to give him some credit here. He likes forwards who play a two way game and is willing to sacrifice scoring touch for defensive responsibility. He would rather have an elite PMD than an elite goalscorer. He started molding the roster to fit that vision. He was scorned for this, but he is being vindicated.

They have been on streaks in years past, but I was always waiting for the bubble to burst. I don't think there is a bubble this time.

Horton has underachieved relative to his ability. I am hard on him, because "with great power comes great responsibility" Olesz is still out and hasn't had a great year statistically. Stillman just got back into the lineup. Booth is still getting back in the swing of things. So, yes, I think that theoretically this team may take yet another step.


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12-24-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
4. Frolik. Without Frolik on the roster this streak does not exist. He is the playmaker that this team has been sorely lacking for years. He makes things happen almost every shift. I think you can make a valid argument that he is the most skilled forward on the team right now... and he should only get better.
I was just saying that to my roommate last night. The kid has been amazing. On top of that, he's got a good head on his shoulders. He's humble and is willing to put the team first. I liked what he had to say about playing whatever position PDB wants him to play. His interviews are hilarious!

I think we've seen PDB take on different aspects of our team game from a coaching perspective and tackle them accordingly. We've seen our weakest areas improve and then it seems he moves on to improve other areas of the team. I really hope the same can be done with the power play because were are generating power play opportunities but just aren't capitalizing. If we start to improve in that aspect, we will be a very good team IMO.

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12-24-2008, 10:56 AM
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1. Injuries to key players forced the remnants of the team to develop an "us against the world" mentality. Players hungry for roster spots and playing time were given an opportunity. The team became desperate.

Agree. We were killed the past few years regarding injuries, but this season, its been a blessing in disguise. It gave us an opportunity to grow as a unit, and actually see some talent we have in the minors contribute.


2. Players are staying within the system. It seems everyone knows where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing and are executing without hesitation. Confidence? Yes. Buying into the system? Yes. Coaching? Yes.

Good coaching, and a better system suited for the speed and talent that this team has.


3. McCabe & Ballard are a huge upgrade on the blueline over Allen for this style of play. Bouw has elevated his game. Having three D-man who can skate, pass & shoot at an elite level makes a world of difference.

I wouldnt downplay what Allen brings to this team. He is arguably as good defensively as Bouwmeester. He would be our most physical defender at the moment as well. Im very excited about this blueline we have, but if we can get Bouw signed long term and get Allen back, its going to be even better. As good as Skrastins has been with Bouw, Allen is our top line Dman.


4. Frolik. Without Frolik on the roster this streak does not exist. He is the playmaker that this team has been sorely lacking for years. He makes things happen almost every shift. I think you can make a valid argument that he is the most skilled forward on the team right now... and he should only get better.

Frolik is the most skilled prospect (forward or Dman) this team has EVER had! Its scary to think what he can be when he is becomes old enough to drink! He has all the skill to be an 80+ point player in this league.


5. Waiving/trading Belak. Nice guy. Laid back. Wrong attitude for this team. It looks like Martin's/DeBoer's message was received.

Absolutely agree. People were critical of this move, but even trading one who played as rarely as Belak did, has certainly gotten some type of message across to most of the team.


6. Martin. Even the haters have to give him some credit here. He likes forwards who play a two way game and is willing to sacrifice scoring touch for defensive responsibility. He would rather have an elite PMD than an elite goalscorer. He started molding the roster to fit that vision. He was scorned for this, but he is being vindicated.

Martin is the best GM this team has ever had. He did so much more right that wrong, and he still gets criticized at times. He deserves a lot of credit and I hope he is this teams GM for a long time. And I believe we have a GM and coaching tandem that work quite well together.


They have been on streaks in years past, but I was always waiting for the bubble to burst. I don't think there is a bubble this time.

Horton has underachieved relative to his ability. I am hard on him, because "with great power comes great responsibility" Olesz is still out and hasn't had a great year statistically. Stillman just got back into the lineup. Booth is still getting back in the swing of things. So, yes, I think that theoretically this team may take yet another step.


This is a Panther team that we havent seen this decade. They work hard, are pretty responsible, and having given up, even when down. There have been so many instances this season that didnt go our way, but we still saw them fight till the very end. Seasons past, it would of been much different. A lot of the credit has to go to DeBoer. He is getting them to believe in his preaching, and to work hard every time they step on the ice. Remember what he said, that it would take around 20 games or so to get a gauge on this team, and for them to learn his system. Well since the 20 game mark, this team is 9-2-3. If they somehow make it as a 6-7-8 seed this season, he MUST get recognition as coach of the year.

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12-24-2008, 11:17 AM
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Having started all this, I'll add my two cents worth:

1. Injuries to key players forced the remnants of the team to develop an "us against the world" mentality. Players hungry for roster spots and playing time were given an opportunity. The team became desperate.

Agree. We were killed the past few years regarding injuries, but this season, its been a blessing in disguise. It gave us an opportunity to grow as a unit, and actually see some talent we have in the minors contribute.

I would completely agree with both assesments. With the Leafs, whenever Sundin was out the entire team came together instead of waiting for "Mats to do it." I think this took place here. I saw players performing who had melted into the background.

2. Players are staying within the system. It seems everyone knows where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing and are executing without hesitation. Confidence? Yes. Buying into the system? Yes. Coaching? Yes.

Good coaching, and a better system suited for the speed and talent that this team has.

A lot of credit must be given to PDB for recognizing what this team had and molding his playing approach to that. The key, though, was getting the players to see it. And that took a bit of time. I agree that they seem to "get" it now. Even in losing, they're playing the system and that's good. We'll still come up with a stinker now and then (every team does) but in the long run this looks really good.

3. McCabe & Ballard are a huge upgrade on the blueline over Allen for this style of play. Bouw has elevated his game. Having three D-man who can skate, pass & shoot at an elite level makes a world of difference.

I wouldnt downplay what Allen brings to this team. He is arguably as good defensively as Bouwmeester. He would be our most physical defender at the moment as well. Im very excited about this blueline we have, but if we can get Bouw signed long term and get Allen back, its going to be even better. As good as Skrastins has been with Bouw, Allen is our top line Dman.

I'm new to this board so tell me, is Allen really the team's most physical defenseman? I'm not calling you out on this by any means--it's just that the thought makes my head reel! McCabe likes to hit, we've all seen (and enjoyed) what Ballard does, and heck, even Bouwmeester has been banging guys a lot more. Boynton too. How good could this defense be if what you say is true?

And total agreement with how impressive this team's defense is. Watching Bouwmeester skate is a treat. I love Ballard's rushes, he's outstanding, and that adds such an element to the team's performance. McCabe has been much more steady as a defenseman than I've ever seen him be (speaking as a long-time Leafs and McCabe fan). He's not nearly as mobile as the former two but not exactly chopped liver either.


4. Frolik. Without Frolik on the roster this streak does not exist. He is the playmaker that this team has been sorely lacking for years. He makes things happen almost every shift. I think you can make a valid argument that he is the most skilled forward on the team right now... and he should only get better.

Frolik is the most skilled prospect (forward or Dman) this team has EVER had! Its scary to think what he can be when he is becomes old enough to drink! He has all the skill to be an 80+ point player in this league.

I watch a fair amount of Leafs games too, so I have a chance to watch a lot of other teams play. I agree with what has been said about Frolik. There's that--how to possibly describe it?--element to his game which separates him from so many of the others. I agree, he has star quality in him. He has magic dust sprinkled all over him and as long as he doesn't get paid big time for that tendency of his to cut against the flow and into the middle (here be dragons) then I think he's going to be fabulous. Think about it, he's only 20!

5. Waiving/trading Belak. Nice guy. Laid back. Wrong attitude for this team. It looks like Martin's/DeBoer's message was received.

Absolutely agree. People were critical of this move, but even trading one who played as rarely as Belak did, has certainly gotten some type of message across to most of the team.

I threw a tizzy fit when they got rid of Wade and would like to see the Panthers add a skilled, tough forward (I know, I know, who wouldn't?). But it seemed to send a message, didn't it? So did the sitting of Vokoun. I'm not sure I would have done that if I were PDB. But it sent a very clear message to everyone, didn't it: play hard or don't play at all.

6. Martin. Even the haters have to give him some credit here. He likes forwards who play a two way game and is willing to sacrifice scoring touch for defensive responsibility. He would rather have an elite PMD than an elite goalscorer. He started molding the roster to fit that vision. He was scorned for this, but he is being vindicated.

Martin is the best GM this team has ever had. He did so much more right that wrong, and he still gets criticized at times. He deserves a lot of credit and I hope he is this teams GM for a long time. And I believe we have a GM and coaching tandem that work quite well together.

Again, agreed (isn't this quite the 'love-in'?). This team is built for speed, which is the new NHL formula for success. It was fun listening to the Nashville announcers last night keep mentioning how Florida's speed was creating problems for their team. LOL. That's nice to hear.

But what impresses me most is how sound defensively the forwards play. Too much of the defensive responsibility is played on the two defensemen--when the three forwards work hard, hit hard and keep sticks in lanes, then truly great things happen. Total agreement on Martin, by the way. Not get us one more good scorer.


They have been on streaks in years past, but I was always waiting for the bubble to burst. I don't think there is a bubble this time.

I agree. The system is in place. The players know it. They also know what they have to do to keep playing and not sit out.

Horton has underachieved relative to his ability. I am hard on him, because "with great power comes great responsibility" Olesz is still out and hasn't had a great year statistically. Stillman just got back into the lineup. Booth is still getting back in the swing of things. So, yes, I think that theoretically this team may take yet another step.

I think that Horton is the one big question mark looming over this team. It will be interesting to see what happens with him.


This is a Panther team that we havent seen this decade. They work hard, are pretty responsible, and having given up, even when down. There have been so many instances this season that didnt go our way, but we still saw them fight till the very end. Seasons past, it would of been much different. A lot of the credit has to go to DeBoer. He is getting them to believe in his preaching, and to work hard every time they step on the ice. Remember what he said, that it would take around 20 games or so to get a gauge on this team, and for them to learn his system. Well since the 20 game mark, this team is 9-2-3. If they somehow make it as a 6-7-8 seed this season, he MUST get recognition as coach of the year.

I'm certainly a PDB fan. I can see why he was so highly touted. Too bad for Ottawa (not that I care).

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12-24-2008, 11:36 AM
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This team is starting to remind me of the Panthers' team that made its Cup run. It's a gritty, hard-working, forechecking team that may be short on skill, but isn't short on effort and heart. It took some time for this team to "buy-into" the DB system, but the injuries certainly didn't help. I'm just glad the run happened in December and not in February/March like the past couple years. We're right in the thick of things.

Even when we were down I could tell DB was going to be a really good coach. He was making the most out of nothing and while the team was losing, it was still competitive. When you have a guy like Greg Campbell with 6 goals, you know things will be eventually turned around.

Martin is doing a very good job with what he has. He'll never have the cash to sign a marquee free agent, but we've had a couple strong drafts and getting a gem in Booth is just what this franchise needed. You can see the talent oozing from Frolik too - no doubt the best prospect this franchise has EVER had.

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12-24-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers/Leafs fan View Post
Having started all this, I'll add my two cents worth:

1. Injuries to key players forced the remnants of the team to develop an "us against the world" mentality. Players hungry for roster spots and playing time were given an opportunity. The team became desperate.

Agree. We were killed the past few years regarding injuries, but this season, its been a blessing in disguise. It gave us an opportunity to grow as a unit, and actually see some talent we have in the minors contribute.

I would completely agree with both assesments. With the Leafs, whenever Sundin was out the entire team came together instead of waiting for "Mats to do it." I think this took place here. I saw players performing who had melted into the background.

2. Players are staying within the system. It seems everyone knows where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing and are executing without hesitation. Confidence? Yes. Buying into the system? Yes. Coaching? Yes.

Good coaching, and a better system suited for the speed and talent that this team has.

A lot of credit must be given to PDB for recognizing what this team had and molding his playing approach to that. The key, though, was getting the players to see it. And that took a bit of time. I agree that they seem to "get" it now. Even in losing, they're playing the system and that's good. We'll still come up with a stinker now and then (every team does) but in the long run this looks really good.

3. McCabe & Ballard are a huge upgrade on the blueline over Allen for this style of play. Bouw has elevated his game. Having three D-man who can skate, pass & shoot at an elite level makes a world of difference.

I wouldnt downplay what Allen brings to this team. He is arguably as good defensively as Bouwmeester. He would be our most physical defender at the moment as well. Im very excited about this blueline we have, but if we can get Bouw signed long term and get Allen back, its going to be even better. As good as Skrastins has been with Bouw, Allen is our top line Dman.

I'm new to this board so tell me, is Allen really the team's most physical defenseman? I'm not calling you out on this by any means--it's just that the thought makes my head reel! McCabe likes to hit, we've all seen (and enjoyed) what Ballard does, and heck, even Bouwmeester has been banging guys a lot more. Boynton too. How good could this defense be if what you say is true?

And total agreement with how impressive this team's defense is. Watching Bouwmeester skate is a treat. I love Ballard's rushes, he's outstanding, and that adds such an element to the team's performance. McCabe has been much more steady as a defenseman than I've ever seen him be (speaking as a long-time Leafs and McCabe fan). He's not nearly as mobile as the former two but not exactly chopped liver either.


4. Frolik. Without Frolik on the roster this streak does not exist. He is the playmaker that this team has been sorely lacking for years. He makes things happen almost every shift. I think you can make a valid argument that he is the most skilled forward on the team right now... and he should only get better.

Frolik is the most skilled prospect (forward or Dman) this team has EVER had! Its scary to think what he can be when he is becomes old enough to drink! He has all the skill to be an 80+ point player in this league.

I watch a fair amount of Leafs games too, so I have a chance to watch a lot of other teams play. I agree with what has been said about Frolik. There's that--how to possibly describe it?--element to his game which separates him from so many of the others. I agree, he has star quality in him. He has magic dust sprinkled all over him and as long as he doesn't get paid big time for that tendency of his to cut against the flow and into the middle (here be dragons) then I think he's going to be fabulous. Think about it, he's only 20!

5. Waiving/trading Belak. Nice guy. Laid back. Wrong attitude for this team. It looks like Martin's/DeBoer's message was received.

Absolutely agree. People were critical of this move, but even trading one who played as rarely as Belak did, has certainly gotten some type of message across to most of the team.

I threw a tizzy fit when they got rid of Wade and would like to see the Panthers add a skilled, tough forward (I know, I know, who wouldn't?). But it seemed to send a message, didn't it? So did the sitting of Vokoun. I'm not sure I would have done that if I were PDB. But it sent a very clear message to everyone, didn't it: play hard or don't play at all.

6. Martin. Even the haters have to give him some credit here. He likes forwards who play a two way game and is willing to sacrifice scoring touch for defensive responsibility. He would rather have an elite PMD than an elite goalscorer. He started molding the roster to fit that vision. He was scorned for this, but he is being vindicated.

Martin is the best GM this team has ever had. He did so much more right that wrong, and he still gets criticized at times. He deserves a lot of credit and I hope he is this teams GM for a long time. And I believe we have a GM and coaching tandem that work quite well together.

Again, agreed (isn't this quite the 'love-in'?). This team is built for speed, which is the new NHL formula for success. It was fun listening to the Nashville announcers last night keep mentioning how Florida's speed was creating problems for their team. LOL. That's nice to hear.

But what impresses me most is how sound defensively the forwards play. Too much of the defensive responsibility is played on the two defensemen--when the three forwards work hard, hit hard and keep sticks in lanes, then truly great things happen. Total agreement on Martin, by the way. Not get us one more good scorer.


They have been on streaks in years past, but I was always waiting for the bubble to burst. I don't think there is a bubble this time.

I agree. The system is in place. The players know it. They also know what they have to do to keep playing and not sit out.

Horton has underachieved relative to his ability. I am hard on him, because "with great power comes great responsibility" Olesz is still out and hasn't had a great year statistically. Stillman just got back into the lineup. Booth is still getting back in the swing of things. So, yes, I think that theoretically this team may take yet another step.

I think that Horton is the one big question mark looming over this team. It will be interesting to see what happens with him.


This is a Panther team that we havent seen this decade. They work hard, are pretty responsible, and having given up, even when down. There have been so many instances this season that didnt go our way, but we still saw them fight till the very end. Seasons past, it would of been much different. A lot of the credit has to go to DeBoer. He is getting them to believe in his preaching, and to work hard every time they step on the ice. Remember what he said, that it would take around 20 games or so to get a gauge on this team, and for them to learn his system. Well since the 20 game mark, this team is 9-2-3. If they somehow make it as a 6-7-8 seed this season, he MUST get recognition as coach of the year.

I'm certainly a PDB fan. I can see why he was so highly touted. Too bad for Ottawa (not that I care).
I will say that Ballard is not your prototypical "physical" Dman, he just LOVES the hip check, as do most of us. Allen is a big, strong Dman that plays strong, is good positionally, and to me, is the perfect compliment to Bouwmeesters up tempo style at times. If we HAD to trade Bouw, getting Allen back would definitely ease the load. He just makes this team even more physical. He is a 15-20 point Dman, but its more of his defensive play that I like. I cant wait till he gets back.

Whats also nice, if we retain Bouwmeester and Skrastins and/or Boynton, we have four or five guys that can play 20 minutes + a night. What that means is we can play more guys, giving them less minutes, which in turn will keep them fresh throughout games and the season. Along with Martin being the best GM we have had, our defensive core is the best this team has seen. We have had solid Dmen in the past, but like the GROUP we have now...NEVER before!

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12-24-2008, 11:37 AM
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Unless things change things will bottom out fast for this team. They have given up the most shots in the league and cant score goals. If it werent for Vokoun and Anderson they'd be where TB is.

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12-24-2008, 11:46 AM
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Unless things change things will bottom out fast for this team. They have given up the most shots in the league and cant score goals. If it werent for Vokoun and Anderson they'd be where TB is.
Unless what changes? We scored three goals last night, and scored two the other night, both were enough to win those games. So this team isnt one of the highest scoring teams in the league, what do you want to do about that? We are the 6th stingiest team in the league as far as goals allowed is concerned, and that comes from the teams dedication to the system and hard work. And this recent streak was without most of our "scorers" available. Im not worried about this teams scoring deficiencies this season because as long as they play hard like they have been, the goals will come. I do think this team needs to add another top six winger, but I personally dont see them "bottoming out" anytime soon. How many teams in the top eight in each conference are averaging less than three goals a game...10. So we are behind them from .5 goals a game to .2, what a massive difference

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12-24-2008, 11:59 AM
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Allen isn't at all a downgrade to Ballard and McCabe, those two are offensive defensemen and I'd rather have him out there than Welch or even Culli. Still love Cullimore, but Allen's a better shutdown defenseman.

Belak just didn't fit into the speed of DeBoer's system. Funny, though, that Washington and Pittsburgh can figure their enforcers into their programs just fine. Tbh, I think that was all Belak and not the coach, but I miss having a heavy on the team. I don't mind Nasty at all, but I'd rather have Neil, Janssen, or even Barch.

They started to win and gained confidence, when they were losing games in the last two minutes, they all said that they waited for it to happen. Now, they push hard for the win. Different mindset, different game, new team. The ouster of the bologne in the lockerroom and bringing in guys like Ballard, McCabe, Stillman, Boynton, and Nasty's energy has helped with the turnaround.

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12-24-2008, 12:04 PM
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Allen isn't at all a downgrade to Ballard and McCabe, those two are offensive defensemen and I'd rather have him out there than Welch or even Culli. Still love Cullimore, but Allen's a better shutdown defenseman.

Belak just didn't fit into the speed of DeBoer's system. Funny, though, that Washington and Pittsburgh can figure their enforcers into their programs just fine. Tbh, I think that was all Belak and not the coach, but I miss having a heavy on the team. I don't mind Nasty at all, but I'd rather have Neil, Janssen, or even Barch.

They started to win and gained confidence, when they were losing games in the last two minutes, they all said that they waited for it to happen. Now, they push hard for the win. Different mindset, different game, new team. The ouster of the bologne in the lockerroom and bringing in guys like Ballard, McCabe, Stillman, Boynton, and Nasty's energy has helped with the turnaround.
Good point! Im sure having guys like Stillman, McCabe, and Ballard on this team gives us a more professional locker room. Having a couple of guys who have been through it all, and one who seems to be a future captain is a great thing to have around a group of youngsters that havent really done anything yet.


Last edited by The Nemesis: 12-24-2008 at 12:56 PM. Reason: qep
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12-24-2008, 12:18 PM
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Good point! Im sure having guys like Stillman, McCabe, and Ballard on this team gives us a more professional locker room. Having a couple of guys who have been through it all, and one who seems to be a future captain is a great thing to have around a group of youngsters that havent really done anything yet.
They're still the freaking 9th seed right now. Throw a freaking parade! If it werent for Anderson and Vokoun this team would be no better than Tampa. Giving up the most shots in the league is an epic fail and eventually teams will start to capitalize on those chances, especially when Bouwmeester is traded. This "system" doesnt work without Bouwmeester at all.


Last edited by Acadmus: 12-24-2008 at 01:11 PM. Reason: flaming - broad sweeping denigration of anyone who disagrees with his point
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12-24-2008, 12:21 PM
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9th place due to the way they started. Shouldn't be hard to figure out.

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12-24-2008, 12:21 PM
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Frolic is such a pleasure to see him, I just get mesmerize of the things he is doing for his age and development, Why can Horton something like that?, he is virtually invisible....and we need him to be dominating and hard to stop.

Frolic is the real thing, Horton..move out the way.

I'm just trashing Horton out of frustration...he has so much going for him, but he can't make it happen.


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12-24-2008, 12:24 PM
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We are the 6th stingiest team in the league as far as goals allowed is concerned. How many teams in the top eight in each conference are averaging less than three goals a game...10. So we are behind them from .5 goals a game to .2, what a massive difference
You use goals allowed totals in one then use magical averages in the next comparasion. Why are they the 6th stingiest team in the league as far as goals allowed? Is it because they have faced the most shots in the league thanks to their awesome D? No, its because the two goalies are playing out of their minds and totally bailing out the horrendous defense. On the flip side of the goals allowed stat, is the goals scored stat. They have scored one less goal than the freaking islanders. Their offense is pathetic and if they cant cut down the shots faced or up the goals scored then everyone will be cheering for a 9th seeded team come play off time. The goalies are bailing them out every night it's not even funny.


Last edited by Acadmus: 12-24-2008 at 01:12 PM. Reason: opened with a demeaning comment.
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12-24-2008, 12:25 PM
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Frolic is such a pleasure to see him, I just get mesmerize of the things he is doing for his age and development, Why can Horton something like that?, he is virtually invisible....and we need him to be dominating and hard to stop.

Frolic is the real thing, Horton..move out the way.

I'm just trashing Horton out of frustration...he has so much going for him, but he can make it happen.
Frolik good, Horton very bad.

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12-24-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
They're still the freaking 9th seed right now. Throw a freaking parade! If it werent for Anderson and Vokoun this team would be no better than Tampa. Giving up the most shots in the league is an epic fail and eventually teams will start to capitalize on those chances, especially when Bouwmeester is traded. This "system" doesnt work without Bouwmeester at all.
9th in the standings is a whole lot better than 14th, as are your Lightning you keep bragging about. Did you take into account that they have two games in hand on Carolina, and one on Buffalo? So if they win ONE game, they are now 8th in the conference. Its a WHOLE lot better than 14/15th in the conference, as we were prior to us going 9-2-3 in our past 14. Give it a rest man, this team is playing great hockey, from our two outstanding goaltenders, to the forwards. If you want to come here and give crap about whats going wrong, you are on your own. If you are so infatuated about the Lightning, why dont you go on their board. Im sure you pissy attitude will fit right in with the rest of them lol.


Last edited by Acadmus: 12-24-2008 at 01:12 PM. Reason: editing quote
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12-24-2008, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
You use goals allowed totals in one then use magical averages in the next comparasion. Why are they the 6th stingiest team in the league as far as goals allowed? Is it because they have faced the most shots in the league thanks to their awesome D? No, its because the two goalies are playing out of their minds and totally bailing out the horrendous defense. On the flip side of the goals allowed stat, is the goals scored stat. They have scored one less goal than the freaking islanders. Their offense is pathetic and if they cant cut down the shots faced or up the goals scored then everyone will be cheering for a 9th seeded team come play off time. The goalies are bailing them out every night it's not even funny.
Vokoun bailed us out yesterday huh? Did you even watch the game? We DOMINATED them, and if it wasnt for Rinne, we would of put up six or seven goals. I guess Vokoun bailed us out against the Avs too, huh? Or the game in NY? Our goaltenders are doing their job, and that is to put us into position to win the game. Sometimes we rely on them heavily, sometimes our forwards do their job and make it easy, like the past two games. What team aside from SJ, Boston, DONT rely on their goaltenders from time to time. Your posts/replies are weak. Its funny how you are nowhere to be found when this team is doing good, but think that your obvious nonsense is going to change what we think about this team.


Last edited by Acadmus: 12-24-2008 at 01:12 PM. Reason: editing quote
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12-24-2008, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
They're still the freaking 9th seed right now. Throw a freaking parade! If it werent for Anderson and Vokoun this team would be no better than Tampa. Giving up the most shots in the league is an epic fail and eventually teams will start to capitalize on those chances, especially when Bouwmeester is traded. This "system" doesnt work without Bouwmeester at all.
You seem to think that shots = scoring chances

I don't care about shots, I do about scoring chances


Last edited by Acadmus: 12-24-2008 at 01:16 PM. Reason: editing quote and deleting flame
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12-24-2008, 12:51 PM
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If he watched the games he would see that the other team gets very few chances. Our D is awesome.

We are 2 wins against Tampa from 7th place. Go Panthers!!


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12-24-2008, 01:10 PM
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You seem to think that shots = scoring chances

I don't care about shots, I do about scoring chances

And I'm not sure if you know anything about hockey...but you don't know the Panthers, that's for sure
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He's funny. If he watched the games he would see that the other team gets very few chances. Our D is awesome.

We are 2 wins against Tampa from 7th place. Go Panthers!!
heh... well, someone came in and cleaned up all those abusive posts. ah well. i was actually going to come back and post an apology. at least 39's presenting some reasoning when he posts, unlike some others. from there, we can see where the problem and faulty logic is.

i agree with both of you - comparing us to TB is not illuminating as we actually have a defense. generally we're eliminating a lot of the really good scoring chances and keeping second chances down. we have good backpressure because the forwards cranking back in transition. haven't seen much TB except the 2 games against them but based on their lack of success, you'd have to assume they aren't executing the fundamentals. so, yeah - i disagree that we're an andy/vokie hot streak away from TB's position.

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12-24-2008, 01:17 PM
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Keep your arguments on topic, folks - and the topic isn't other posters.

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12-24-2008, 02:17 PM
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Frolik good, Horton very bad.
Would like to see them play alongside each other. Maybe Frolik's work ethic might rub off a little on Nate...or at least his playmaking skills can help Nate generate more goals. Horton is not a playmaker, period, but he's got GREAT scoring capability if he's got someone who can feed him shots (like Jokinen used to) for his wrister. The guy didn't score 25+ goals as a fluke (not including his 15 on an injury-shortened rookie season). He's not that bad, just limited to a setup scorer.

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12-24-2008, 02:20 PM
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Would like to see them play alongside each other. Maybe Frolik's work ethic might rub off a little on Nate...or at least his playmaking skills can help Nate generate more goals. Horton is not a playmaker, period, but he's got GREAT scoring capability if he's got someone who can feed him shots (like Jokinen used to) for his wrister. The guy didn't score 25+ goals as a fluke (not including his 15 on an injury-shortened rookie season). He's not that bad, just limited to a setup scorer.
Horton is indeed a playmaker when his head is in the game. The guy showed us last year that he can pass pretty dang well. 30+ assists last season. To say hes not a playmaker period is a bit wrong. When he's on, he can do both very well.


Last edited by Egblad: 12-24-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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