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Old
12-29-2008, 09:17 PM
  #26
ABasin
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
...like I was espousing +/- as a relevant defense stat.
It's just as useless as the stat you cited (when discussing defensive play), so I referenced it.

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Typical posturing and sniping at me when I'm not even involved. Pretty dick move, tbh.
Geez, Doc. I've kept this pretty PG, not even PG-13. If you're this thin skinned, I can dial it down to G.

'Pooh bear, Clark's the bestest. McNab and Haynes said so.'

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
It's true that the stat doesn't provide great comparisons between different teams
Correct. Nor does it provide great comparisons between different players. Which is kind of the point.

The stat is sometimes right, sometimes wrong; therefore in the end, something that isn't very meaningful. I mean....Kurt Sauer, Doc? Come on.

Now, it also positively referenced the play of Nick Schultz of Minnesota, who I believe to be one of the best defensive defensemen going today.

So - Nick Schultz and Rob Scuderi near each other on the same list. It's totally random, and not indicative of anything.

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
you're correctly pulling out that good defender/goalie pairings are rising to the top.
I did no such thing. I simply made the point that normal/mediocre defensemen rose to the top when they have good goaltending. I said nothing whatsoever about good defenders, as some on that list aren't.

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
And you've been watching all of these guys this year yourself? How many times have you watched these guys? You must be omniscient as well as the great defensive expert ever. You don't have to be a touted prospect or a previously good defender to play well, dude.
Absolutely correct. You simply need to play well, not 'stat' well.

-AB


Last edited by ABasin: 12-29-2008 at 09:22 PM.
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Old
12-29-2008, 09:36 PM
  #27
thedoctor
                    
 
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yawn. All I see is a) a giant bias you can't even see and won't shut up about b) you claiming you know more than James Mirtle, a real expert, and c) you continuing to take shots at me and my ever-so-slightly-twisted-opinions.

I think you're entertaining to discuss hockey with, but this latest round has proven to me you're a vindictive, biased blowhard (with no knowledge of statistics either! ). Do yourself a favor and let it go, you look really petty constantly taking shots at me -- it's a discussion, not personal. Or take it to PMs with me, though I doubt your grandstanding nature will let that happen.

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Old
12-29-2008, 10:01 PM
  #28
ABasin
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
yawn. All I see is a) a giant bias you can't even see and won't shut up about b) you claiming you know more than James Mirtle, a real expert, and c) you continuing to take shots at me and my ever-so-slightly-twisted-opinions.
Peter McNab is an 'expert' also. Are you suggesting I believe everything he says?

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I think you're entertaining to discuss hockey with,
Ditto. Same here.

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
but this latest round has proven to me you're a vindictive, biased blowhard (with no knowledge of statistics either! ). Do yourself a favor and let it go, you look really petty constantly taking shots at me -- it's a discussion, not personal. Or take it to PMs with me, though I doubt your grandstanding nature will let that happen.
Doc, why are you being so thinned skinned about this? Debates get somewhat heated sometimes. It's not a big deal. Have some fun with it instead.

-AB

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Old
12-29-2008, 11:33 PM
  #29
thedoctor
                    
 
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Doc, why are you being so thinned skinned about this? Debates get somewhat heated sometimes. It's not a big deal. Have some fun with it instead.

-AB
thin-skinned? Your repeated false repetitions and mentions of my viewpoint when I'm not around to even respond are laughable debate tactics in the extreme, and reek of a pitiful and insecure need to pound your chest on this little internet forum. If you truly want to debate or discuss this, there's no other reason than the above to constantly talk smack about me when I'm not even around.

Look, if you've got something to say about me, say it to me so I can respond. If you've got something to say about Clark, leave me out of it, I'll respond if I feel the need and happen by.

Or if you can't handle acting like an adult, I guess I'll just have to ignore it. But I thought I'd let you know you've descended into total childishness first.

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Old
12-29-2008, 11:50 PM
  #30
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Brett Clark is not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. $3.5 million is about right for a solid and versatile 2nd pairing d-man. And that's what Clark is. He's had some bad moments, but Nik Lidstrom has made bad plays that lead to a goal directly because of it.

The Avalanche organization is a very respectful organization that treats its players well and offers loyalty to players who show a willingness to commit to the franchise. Letting Brunette go was a good example; Brunette signed with the Wild for a little more money and playing time than what he would have been offered from Colorado. Hejduk signed a long-term deal that was extremely cheap by today's standards. Brett Clark would have been able to receive a better contract from another team. It's arguable that he may or may not have deserved it, but he decided to not be so greedy and sign with the Avs at a reasonable deal. This doesn't mean that Granato or anybody else has an obligation to play Clark based on a contract he signed, only that Clark signed a fair deal based on the market at the time.


Yeah, maybe he's playing too much minutes, but he's the most versatile dman we have.

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Old
12-29-2008, 11:59 PM
  #31
Stories
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
Brett Clark is not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. $3.5 million is about right for a solid and versatile 2nd pairing d-man. And that's what Clark is. He's had some bad moments, but Nik Lidstrom has made bad plays that lead to a goal directly because of it.

The Avalanche organization is a very respectful organization that treats its players well and offers loyalty to players who show a willingness to commit to the franchise. Letting Brunette go was a good example; Brunette signed with the Wild for a little more money and playing time than what he would have been offered from Colorado. Hejduk signed a long-term deal that was extremely cheap by today's standards. Brett Clark would have been able to receive a better contract from another team. It's arguable that he may or may not have deserved it, but he decided to not be so greedy and sign with the Avs at a reasonable deal. This doesn't mean that Granato or anybody else has an obligation to play Clark based on a contract he signed, only that Clark signed a fair deal based on the market at the time.


Yeah, maybe he's playing too much minutes, but he's the most versatile dman we have.
The Brett Clark that has been playing the last 3 games is the one that was MIA for the first 30+ games of the season.

He's finally skating again.

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Old
12-30-2008, 08:43 AM
  #32
Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
yawn. All I see is a) a giant bias you can't even see and won't shut up about b) you claiming you know more than James Mirtle, a real expert, and c) you continuing to take shots at me and my ever-so-slightly-twisted-opinions.
Just because someone gets published in a newspaper or has their own blog, it certainly doesn't mean that they are 'experts' on anything. Blindly believing this is foolish. Look, I really like Adrian Dater and I know he sometimes posts here now and again but a few weeks ago, someone asked him on the mailbag what the difference was between a Winger and a Centerman and his answer was pretty much laughable. For someone like me who played hockey as a forward up to midget AAA, I found it interesting that he saw the game that way. Until maybe only 3-4 years ago, he thought a 'natural hat-trick' was when someone from the same team scored 3 goals in a row instead of 3 unanswered goals from 1 player without any team scoring. I've known this fact since I was oh I dunno 12 years old so please get off your high horse with your so-called 'experts'.

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
thin-skinned? Your repeated false repetitions and mentions of my viewpoint when I'm not around to even respond are laughable debate tactics in the extreme, and reek of a pitiful and insecure need to pound your chest on this little internet forum. If you truly want to debate or discuss this, there's no other reason than the above to constantly talk smack about me when I'm not even around.
Is there a new feature to allow other users to known WHEN you're 'around' or not or are we supposed to just guess ? Maybe you could have rotating avatars with "The Doctor is IN" or "The Doctor is OUT" to make sure you let us know when people can post certain things and when they can't. Gimme a break.

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Old
12-30-2008, 10:51 AM
  #33
quesosauce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post

Yeah, maybe he's playing too much minutes, but he's the most versatile dman we have.
I would argue that Leopold is the most well rounded versatile d-man we have

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:20 PM
  #34
ABasin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
thin-skinned?
Would you prefer 'prickly'? 'Easily offended'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Your repeated false repetitions and mentions of my viewpoint
Sorry, I did no such thing. The first poster in this thread cited stats to prove Clark's defensive worth, which is exactly what you did a few weeks back. I simply pointed to that fact.

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
when I'm not around to even respond
"When you're not around"?!? Doc, what in Hades are you talking about? This is a public forum, people post, then leave, then come back to read more posts - at all hours of the day and night. What, should I have my people call your people every time I hit 'submit reply' in here? Or make paper copies of every post and mail them to your house for approval before posting them here?

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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Look, if you've got something to say about me, say it to me so I can respond.
In the exact same thread, you mentioned the "internet experts"(sic) in an uncomplimentary way, and I know damn well I'm one of the people you're talking about there; though you didn't mention me by name. And it's no big deal to me, but it apparently is to you. So, it's all about using your name then? Should I reference "The Professional Medical Person Who Makes Sick People Better" instead?

<AB, shaking his head>

OK, Doc. This is a good board, and I don't want this kind of negativity, and other posters are likely not into this personal back-and-forth stuff.

Here's my olive branch, and it's a sincere one:

If you can explain to me how I can converse with you in a way that doesn't upset you every time, I'll do my very best to do so. But as we sit right now, I can't figure out why every time I have a conversation with you, you fly into orbit; and this whole "posting when I'm not around" thing is a real head scratcher for me. Any clarity you could provide for me would be appreciated.

Maybe this should be done with PMs, but I'll leave that to you.

-AB


Last edited by ABasin: 12-30-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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