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Old
12-29-2008, 03:38 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
laviolette......thats the coach i want....or pat quinn
Lavi is good too, he's usually yelling at the players (in a good way) the entire game, not sitting back there with a ugly little smirk on his face watching them play.

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12-29-2008, 05:55 PM
  #52
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We shouldn't lose sight of the #1 problem with the Rangers - they do not have enough youthful elite talent up front. All of the other issues facing the team is a direct result of this vacuum.

Renney's defensive system is actually designed to address this. Much like Roger Neilson's was in the early 90's. The system requires the forwards to collapse in the d-zone, keeping opponents to the outside. It's a lot like a crowded version of killing penalties. Thus it requires a ton of energy, detail and patience.

The team takes the pressure off of themselves by establishing their own forecheck and cycle in the O-zone. This too, takes energy and discipline. It's a simple strategy but it can be hard for skilled forwards because it does not allow space for shortcuts. Plus, older forwards find it hard to maintain the pace and work level over an 82 game schedule.

Supposedly, the roster was built around this system. But here's the rub. The forwards brought in to score and lead - Gomez, Drury, Naslund are older and not named Ovechkin or Malkin and thus take shortcuts to rack up points.

Earlier in the season when these guy were playing within the system, the media got on them for not scoring. Despite the fact, we were winning. And now these guys feel the pressure to "earn their paycheck," so they take shortcuts. And the team starts losing.

The problem is compounded because Renney does not discipline his best players when they cut corners for fear of turning NY into a place where creativity is punished. So, Renney "gives them space to use their skills." Er... rope to hang themselves.

There a lot of teams around the league that play this way. The only difference between success and failure? Young, gritty elite forwards who can play creatively WITHOUT cutting corners. (or who can make up for cutting corners)

Bottom line, until the Rangers are stocked with a few more highly skilled kids up front, this strategy will be the same under any coach. Renney or no Renney. Gomez or no Gomez. Drury or no Drury... etc.

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12-30-2008, 09:09 AM
  #53
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the pp. thats whats wrong.

we are at 14 freekin %. thats 4th worse in the league only behind columbus nashville and phoenix. and those teams SUK. 27 out 30 teams. pathetic. how perry pearn even has a job is beyond me. i blame renney. and sather for this.

FIRE PERRY PEARN TODAY


i mean col nash and phoenix will all NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS this season.

we are leading our division with the WORST pp in the conference. are you effin kidding me.

and the teams with the best pp. phil, det, bost, chi, wash and sjs are all excellent teams.

fix the pp. we win. keep perry pearn and the miserable pp and we lose.

simple.

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12-30-2008, 09:54 AM
  #54
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Pearn seriously needs to go. If Renney refuses to give Pearn the boot, then boot both of them. There should be no reason why Pearn is still on this team. I'd be willing to give Renney more time if he dropped Pearn and brought a real PP specialist here.

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12-30-2008, 10:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ghirshorn View Post
Everyone has their theories about what is wrong with the Rangers. Some say it is their inability to perform on the power play and others say that it has something to do with their refusal to play a physical enough game. I say it is none of the above but something far more important and critical to the franchise, the fact that at last nightís Devilís game I did not see Larry or Dancing Granny put on their respective performances.
The Rangers seemed unmotivated last night and this is due to the fact that Larry did not break out any of his dance moves and granny decided to take the night off. These influences on the team are crucial and without them I predict the Rangers will lose the remainder of their home games.
It is not the purpose of winning that drives this team but instead it is the efforts of dancing fans off the ice. It is very simple, when the Rangers see fans like Larry and Granny breaking it down in the stands they realize that if they can dance like that the least we can do is play a solid 60 minutes of hockey.
There are six players on the ice at a time for the Rangers but this is an eight man team. The two most valuable members are Larry and Dancing Granny. Without them the Rangers are doomed. People have been talking about playoffs but to quote the great Jim Mora, "Playoffs?! Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? Playoffs?! I'm just hoping we can win another game!" To make the playoffs and advance within the playoffs the Rangers are going to need an eight man effort with the two most critical efforts coming from Larry and Dancing Granny.
Head coach Tom Renney.

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12-30-2008, 10:53 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
laviolette......thats the coach i want....or pat quinn
Just happened to see that. Laviolette. Thats the right coach for this team. Renney would have been the right coach for the trapping Devils of years ago.

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12-30-2008, 11:00 AM
  #57
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I can tell you that Granny was there last night shaking it, but no Larry.

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12-30-2008, 11:45 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Just happened to see that. Laviolette. Thats the right coach for this team. Renney would have been the right coach for the trapping Devils of years ago.
I can only imagine how horrible our defense would be after a few weeks of Laviolette. We have enough problems getting our d-men to keep the puck in at the blue line, imagine how bad it would be if our coach was telling them to pinch all the time? Yikes..

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12-30-2008, 11:46 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Just happened to see that. Laviolette. Thats the right coach for this team. Renney would have been the right coach for the trapping Devils of years ago.
Yea, I think its about time for this team to get a more offensive minded coach because they have the defensive game down already. Thats what good organizations do. Look at SJ, they had Wilson and now they have the coach from Detroit. Two totally opposite coaching styles, however they meshed the styles and are playing really, really well. Laviolette is the coach i want.

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12-30-2008, 11:49 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I can only imagine how horrible our defense would be after a few weeks of Laviolette. We have enough problems getting our d-men to keep the puck in at the blue line, imagine how bad it would be if our coach was telling them to pinch all the time? Yikes..
A good offense is a good defense. Also, the defensemen on the rangers arent exactly bad defensemen, they are much better than what laviolette had on carolina.

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12-30-2008, 11:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ghirshorn View Post
Everyone has their theories about what is wrong with the Rangers. Some say it is their inability to perform on the power play and others say that it has something to do with their refusal to play a physical enough game. I say it is none of the above but something far more important and critical to the franchise, the fact that at last nightís Devilís game I did not see Larry or Dancing Granny put on their respective performances.
The Rangers seemed unmotivated last night and this is due to the fact that Larry did not break out any of his dance moves and granny decided to take the night off. These influences on the team are crucial and without them I predict the Rangers will lose the remainder of their home games.
It is not the purpose of winning that drives this team but instead it is the efforts of dancing fans off the ice. It is very simple, when the Rangers see fans like Larry and Granny breaking it down in the stands they realize that if they can dance like that the least we can do is play a solid 60 minutes of hockey.
There are six players on the ice at a time for the Rangers but this is an eight man team. The two most valuable members are Larry and Dancing Granny. Without them the Rangers are doomed. People have been talking about playoffs but to quote the great Jim Mora, "Playoffs?! Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? Playoffs?! I'm just hoping we can win another game!" To make the playoffs and advance within the playoffs the Rangers are going to need an eight man effort with the two most critical efforts coming from Larry and Dancing Granny.
What's really wrong with the Rangers...? I'll tell you but alot of folks are not going to like it.......No Dominant player on the ice who opponents fear ( like Jagr) will make them look silly...and a defense that is handicaped with Redden and Roszival being way too important! Alot of folks wanted the Gomez/Drury version of the Rangers..well you got them. BTW neither of them are worth their contracts...good complimentary players, but not meant to be the focal point of a team!

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12-30-2008, 11:57 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
A good offense is a good defense. Also, the defensemen on the rangers arent exactly bad defensemen, they are much better than what laviolette had on carolina.
If they're playing this badly in a supposedly "defensive" system, how are they going to fair when team defense is practically thrown out the window? The fact that Carolina has been in the bottom half of the league in Goals Against / Game the last few years isn't a coincidence, it's a product of the system Laviolette uses. It's not that they give up a lot of shots, it's that they give up a lot of quality scoring chances.

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12-30-2008, 11:57 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
What's really wrong with the Rangers...? I'll tell you but alot of folks are not going to like it.......No Dominant player on the ice who opponents fear ( like Jagr) will make them look silly...and a defense that is handicaped with Redden and Roszival being way too important! Alot of folks wanted the Gomez/Drury version of the Rangers..well you got them. BTW neither of them are worth their contracts...good complimentary players, but not meant to be the focal point of a team!
except for Henrik.

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12-30-2008, 12:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
What's really wrong with the Rangers...? I'll tell you but alot of folks are not going to like it.......No Dominant player on the ice who opponents fear ( like Jagr) will make them look silly...and a defense that is handicaped with Redden and Roszival being way too important! Alot of folks wanted the Gomez/Drury version of the Rangers..well you got them. BTW neither of them are worth their contracts...good complimentary players, but not meant to be the focal point of a team!
um........who feared jagr his last season other than a 2 week stretch in the playoffs when he decided to play.

wasnt he the one who said he wasnt into it that much during the regular season, or something to that effect? that doesnt invoke much fear.


teams dont fear players that used to be dominant.....see brendan shanahan.

no one feared jagr at the end. he just wasnt that effective night in night out.

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12-30-2008, 12:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If they're playing this badly in a supposedly "defensive" system, how are they going to fair when team defense is practically thrown out the window? The fact that Carolina has been in the bottom half of the league in Goals Against / Game the last few years isn't a coincidence, it's a product of the system Laviolette uses. It's not that they give up a lot of shots, it's that they give up a lot of quality scoring chances.
laviolette has an offensive mind but that doesnt mean his teams cant or dont play D. and we all know that defense is played with all 5 skaters. we are fortunate to have defenseman who all can skate and jump into the play. our forwards need to back check better and skate with conviction for 60 minutes rather than 15 minutes of the last period.

i prefer torts for 2 reasons.

hes very much like iron mike. emotional and driven. this team needs some fire and he will bring it.

second, he won a cup.

i like torts over lavi. then again, i like anyone over renney and pearn at this point.

with renney all we get is

shootout wins or loses
bad line changes
short handed goals
awful pp
poor starts to almost every game
goals scored by opponents right after we score
inability to make in game strategic decisions
poor line combos
inconsistent discipline
assinine post game comments
and perry pearn

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12-30-2008, 12:55 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
laviolette has an offensive mind but that doesnt mean his teams cant or dont play D. and we all know that defense is played with all 5 skaters. we are fortunate to have defenseman who all can skate and jump into the play. our forwards need to back check better and skate with conviction for 60 minutes rather than 15 minutes of the last period.

i prefer torts for 2 reasons.

hes very much like iron mike. emotional and driven. this team needs some fire and he will bring it.

second, he won a cup.

i like torts over lavi. then again, i like anyone over renney and pearn at this point.

with renney all we get is

shootout wins or loses
bad line changes
short handed goals
awful pp
poor starts to almost every game
goals scored by opponents right after we score
inability to make in game strategic decisions
poor line combos
inconsistent discipline
assinine post game comments
and perry pearn
NICE Renney Avatar!!!!

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12-30-2008, 01:01 PM
  #67
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Low percentage shots, from low percentage shooters = low shooting percentage

Problem is, that means you have to get dirty and go to the net. The Rangers have a lot of squirts on the team with speed that can get gritty, but arent adept at getting many garbage goals or have the ability to score from anywhere in the zone. Throw into the mix that the defenseman have a hard time getting the puck to the net and the Rangers play a 1-2-2 mold so they aren't really forcing the issue around the crease because they are worried about staying up high, and the % comes with the territory.

Things are kinda twisted up and backwards for this team. You have a team built for speed and skill but no one really possesses the abilty to snipe other than Zherdev and Naslund - meanwhile they are playing a defense rooted cycle system that should be used for players with size. Its all ****ed up - resulting in one of the worst scoring teams in the league with a great goaltender and the ability to squeak out close games and shootout wins when they decide to play like neutral zone zombies.

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12-30-2008, 01:33 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
laviolette has an offensive mind but that doesnt mean his teams cant or dont play D. and we all know that defense is played with all 5 skaters. we are fortunate to have defenseman who all can skate and jump into the play. our forwards need to back check better and skate with conviction for 60 minutes rather than 15 minutes of the last period.

i prefer torts for 2 reasons...
I can understand your point of view, but I can't say I agree. Though I have a few feelings on the subject that clearly several people around here don't share.

I don't think a great team is built on mechanics or drawn out on a chalkboard. I think a great team is built on chemistry and the desire to win. Despite what many fans think, I feel this team clearly has the desire to win. You can see it in their faces during interviews and after missed opportunities. They're feeling the pressure.

This was supposed to be a transition year for this team. They lost several key pieces of the "old" Rangers and added in an equal number of new faces. Throw an entirely new style of play into the mix and you have a huge mountain to climb. So now, not only are players like Gomez, Drury and Dubinsky getting new linemates, they need to learn to play differently at the same time.

Despite what's going on out on the ice, there is fantastic chemistry being built in the locker room. Everyone on the roster has said that the locker room environment is one of, if not the best they've ever been a part of. That's huge. A bond amongst players is paramount to the success of an organization. The Rangers never had that because they spend so much time (and money) retooling the roster every summer. Now they have the bond off the ice and it's only a matter of time before we see it on the ice as well.

Now here is somewhere you can point the finger at Renney, and that's the constant jumbling of the lines. These guys need to have the same guys on the ice with them to even start to look like a playoff team and build some chemistry. However, once that chemistry is formed, you'll start to see all other aspects of the game start to improve. The breakout will be cleaner because d-men will know the forwards tendencies and thus can find them more easily with a pass. The power-play will improve because they can find the seams and know when and where their teammates like the puck for the best possible opportunities. The defensive zone coverage will be better because players know their assignments and trust each other to do their job. Hank will be better because he doesn't feel like he has to carry the load anymore.

Now, where I will agree with you is Perry Pearn. I think his idea of how to run the PP isn't necessarily bad, but it's completely ineffective with this team. This team is small, but they're fast. They need to constantly be moving on the PP. Get the opposing defense to have to chase the puck and you'll open up passing and shooting lanes. That's the key. Standing around passing the puck to each other on the perimeter is a waste of time.

So, what do I think is wrong with this team? Nothing I didn't expect to see. I think the real problem is the expectations of the fans. The team came flying out of the gate and surprised everyone, including themselves. So we've seen what this team can be and whether you like it or not, that team had Tom Renney and his new system behind the bench and the same group of players on the ice.

To overlook the massive overhaul of personnel over the summer, ignore the fact that they're learning a new style of play and constantly point the finger at individuals is not only absurd, but naive as well (not to mention annoying). I may be overly optimistic, but I saw a lot of great things in last nights game with those line combinations. I'm hopeful that we may have finally found the next piece to the puzzle and can finally get back on the right track.

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12-30-2008, 01:49 PM
  #69
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um........who feared jagr his last season other than a 2 week stretch in the playoffs when he decided to play.

wasnt he the one who said he wasnt into it that much during the regular season, or something to that effect? that doesnt invoke much fear.


teams dont fear players that used to be dominant.....see brendan shanahan.

no one feared jagr at the end. he just wasnt that effective night in night out.
Regardless his effectiveness........teams were shadowing him all season when he was on the ice, which opened up the ice for other players...I'm not saying Jagr is what is needed....but a big offensive threat like that is needed on this team, they don't have anything even remotely close right now.

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12-30-2008, 03:07 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I can understand your point of view, but I can't say I agree. Though I have a few feelings on the subject that clearly several people around here don't share.

I don't think a great team is built on mechanics or drawn out on a chalkboard. I think a great team is built on chemistry and the desire to win. Despite what many fans think, I feel this team clearly has the desire to win. You can see it in their faces during interviews and after missed opportunities. They're feeling the pressure.

This was supposed to be a transition year for this team. They lost several key pieces of the "old" Rangers and added in an equal number of new faces. Throw an entirely new style of play into the mix and you have a huge mountain to climb. So now, not only are players like Gomez, Drury and Dubinsky getting new linemates, they need to learn to play differently at the same time.

Despite what's going on out on the ice, there is fantastic chemistry being built in the locker room. Everyone on the roster has said that the locker room environment is one of, if not the best they've ever been a part of. That's huge. A bond amongst players is paramount to the success of an organization. The Rangers never had that because they spend so much time (and money) retooling the roster every summer. Now they have the bond off the ice and it's only a matter of time before we see it on the ice as well.

Now here is somewhere you can point the finger at Renney, and that's the constant jumbling of the lines. These guys need to have the same guys on the ice with them to even start to look like a playoff team and build some chemistry. However, once that chemistry is formed, you'll start to see all other aspects of the game start to improve. The breakout will be cleaner because d-men will know the forwards tendencies and thus can find them more easily with a pass. The power-play will improve because they can find the seams and know when and where their teammates like the puck for the best possible opportunities. The defensive zone coverage will be better because players know their assignments and trust each other to do their job. Hank will be better because he doesn't feel like he has to carry the load anymore.

Now, where I will agree with you is Perry Pearn. I think his idea of how to run the PP isn't necessarily bad, but it's completely ineffective with this team. This team is small, but they're fast. They need to constantly be moving on the PP. Get the opposing defense to have to chase the puck and you'll open up passing and shooting lanes. That's the key. Standing around passing the puck to each other on the perimeter is a waste of time.

So, what do I think is wrong with this team? Nothing I didn't expect to see. I think the real problem is the expectations of the fans. The team came flying out of the gate and surprised everyone, including themselves. So we've seen what this team can be and whether you like it or not, that team had Tom Renney and his new system behind the bench and the same group of players on the ice.

To overlook the massive overhaul of personnel over the summer, ignore the fact that they're learning a new style of play and constantly point the finger at individuals is not only absurd, but naive as well (not to mention annoying). I may be overly optimistic, but I saw a lot of great things in last nights game with those line combinations. I'm hopeful that we may have finally found the next piece to the puzzle and can finally get back on the right track.
i still feel we have the talent to compete with every team in the league at even strength. see thats where the renney "system" is most effective. even strength. limit chances and play conservatively. but, and this is a HUGE but, that system requires an effective pp. without pp goals, you get what we are. an offensively challenged, boring, non scoring, counter punching team that cant score at even strength and throws away pp chances.

but its the pp thats gonna cost us the season. in the end, it will be our continuous 1.4-10 on the pp that costs this team. with our goaltendending, superb pk and close to the vest defensive style we should b able to play with anyone and win close game

IF OUR PP IS, EVEN MIDDLE OF THE PACK, EFFECTIVE we lead the conference by 10 points. if it were top 6 in the league effective, we would be tough to beat and with a few tweaks at the deadline, a team that could go deep.

my main problem with renney relative to the pp is his continued acceptance of pearn and his results. as long as tommy boy seems content with us scoring 1.4 times out of every 10 pp chances, we will struggle to win and eventually be looking at an 8th seed for the playoffs or worse.

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