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2009 Roster Moves and Contract Talks. Contract Numbers (Post #1/#826).

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Old
05-21-2009, 01:05 PM
  #926
HockeyinHD
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Where does that leave us then?
Hossa, Hudler out.
Helm, Leino in.

It's a downgrade, obviously, but I think everyone sort of knew that was going to happen next year regardless, right?

It's certainly not the end of the world for the team overall, since the following adjustment will also be made:

Chelios out.
Ericsson in.

I don't know. I don't think I can complain too much about that roster. Even if you can complain about it, I really can't get too worried about how 'bad' things might get. I just can't believe that Marian Hossa, he of the 6 month Red Wing career, or Jiri Hudler, he of the 10 minutes a night at ES, are going to be the Jenga pieces that make the whole thing topple once you remove them.

You know, considering the Wings found a way to be successful post Konstantinov, Hasek, Fedorov, Hull, Robitialle, Shanahan, Yzerman... I just don't see the Wings epitaph being 'And then, once Jiri Hudler left, everything changed for the worse.'

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05-21-2009, 01:44 PM
  #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Hossa, Hudler out.
Helm, Leino in.

It's a downgrade, obviously, but I think everyone sort of knew that was going to happen next year regardless, right?

It's certainly not the end of the world for the team overall, since the following adjustment will also be made:

Chelios out.
Ericsson in.

I don't know. I don't think I can complain too much about that roster. Even if you can complain about it, I really can't get too worried about how 'bad' things might get. I just can't believe that Marian Hossa, he of the 6 month Red Wing career, or Jiri Hudler, he of the 10 minutes a night at ES, are going to be the Jenga pieces that make the whole thing topple once you remove them.

You know, considering the Wings found a way to be successful post Konstantinov, Hasek, Fedorov, Hull, Robitialle, Shanahan, Yzerman... I just don't see the Wings epitaph being 'And then, once Jiri Hudler left, everything changed for the worse.'
That's why I tried to enjoy this year as much as possible. Our team will be worse next year. Its hard saying that as a fan, but that is just the era we are in. On the other hand, we could be worse and still contend for a cup, so not all is lost. Even w/o Hossa and Hudler, we would still be one of the top 5 teams in the game, imo (obviously, I would need to see other moves made in free agency, but I would be pretty confident saying that before the season).

A top 6 of Z, D, Franzen, Flip, Cleary and Sammy (in terms of minutes played) is still very good. A bottom 6/7 forwards of Draper, Maltby, Homer, Helm, Leino, Kopecky and Abs (probably in GR until playoff time) is decent. That would be the area where we might need to address some needs.

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05-21-2009, 01:49 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This is very important, and being overlooked in the general discussion of who replaces whom, longer term.

If you let Hossa leave, and then you're tinkering with either/both Sammy and Hudler leaving.... Homer's contract goes through one more year (09/10 season). He turned 36 in January 09. If he gets another contract, it will have to be year by year, and he's going to be 37 & ~9/12ths when the season starts, turning 38 mid-season, and thus a healthy 38.5 by the end of the playoffs... Given the punishment he takes every game, I have a hard time seeing him playing 16+ minutes per game, for an entire season. He's tough, but man, I dunno.

Where does that leave us then?
well, I think this is where cap flexibility gains importance. Push comes to shove, we could look at the UFA pool and see if we can find a decent bargain. There's also the possibility a prospect or two emerges more quickly than expected and can take on some ice time in Detroit.

More likely, we will need to look at how Homer's TOI is made up. A good chunk of it is on the powerplay. We could cover a fair chunk of that by moving guys around and shifting powerplay responsibilities. Even if we lose Hudler/Sammy, we have dmen to take that point spot and it seems Leino is already seen as the de-facto replacement for Hudler. Shift some players around, move a guy like Flip on to the powerplay and we can eat a lot of those 3 minutes.

What's left is around 11-12 minutes even strength time. In two years, maybe Abdelkader can cover those 12 minutes or we sign a guy. As it is, I think we have guys within the system to cover a lot of these moves and, if we preserve some cap flexibility, we'll be able to make up for where the prospect pipeline comes up short.

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05-21-2009, 01:55 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This is very important, and being overlooked in the general discussion of who replaces whom, longer term.

If you let Hossa leave, and then you're tinkering with either/both Sammy and Hudler leaving.... Homer's contract goes through one more year (09/10 season). He turned 36 in January 09. If he gets another contract, it will have to be year by year, and he's going to be 37 & ~9/12ths when the season starts, turning 38 mid-season, and thus a healthy 38.5 by the end of the playoffs... Given the punishment he takes every game, I have a hard time seeing him playing 16+ minutes per game, for an entire season. He's tough, but man, I dunno.
Nevertheless.... Sammy is far less expendable on this team if one is thinking beyond next year alone. In two years, assuming Hossa leaves too, and we let Sammy and/or Hudler go.... who is left?

Dats, Z, Franzen, Cleary, Filppula, Helm, Abdelkader (I presume), and... Draper. Leino may be in play as well.

Maltby, Homer, Kopecky are wild cards, I suppose, but Malts will be 37 at that point.
Homer is slowly turning into a fourth line forward who will get under 10 minutes of even strength time, and a lot of minutes on the PP. Basically, he is turning into a PP specialist, imo. Even this year, he is being replaced on our 1A/1B line in the 3rd period. I think we will see more of this next year. If he does get another contract, I would expect a deal between 1.50 and 1.75 million. But, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he and Maltby retired together, and then Lidstrom and Draper (and Osgood?) retired together the following year.


In two years? Z,D, Franzen, Cleary, Flip and one of Sammy or Hudler will make up our top 6. I think Maltby and Homer will be retired (Maltby, imo, is the likelier of the two to go).

So, our bottom six would include Helm, Abs and Kopecky as the new grind line (or so we hope), with Leino on the fourth line with Draper and either Homer, Ritola, Axellson (if he completely blows us away) or a FA.

On defense, I think our top 6 may remain the same that we have right now. I imagine Big E, Stuart and Kronwall all would see an increase in minutes, Lids and Rafalski would see a decrease in minutes, and Lebda would see his minutes stay the same. I think Kindl would be our #7/8 D-man that year, with the chance to unseat Lebda in the playoffs.

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05-21-2009, 02:11 PM
  #930
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I wont be shocked if Sammy gets a 4M deal. However I am expecting 3-3.5. Just thought id clarify that. No i dont think hes worth that and i doubt holland will give him that but someone will.

Push comes to shove you move Hudler cause he has the highest trade value if we dont need him. If we find a way to sign Sammy cheep I seriously consider moving Hudler. Its not that hes bad but we already committed to Cleary, Filp, Franzen.

When it comes down to it (assuming Hossa is gone)
Sammy + (value for trading hudler- Likely a 1st rounder)
vs
Hudler

If you can get Sammys cap hit low enough and Hudlers value high enough its a no brainer. Put your personal opinions aside and just look at it as a business deal.

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05-21-2009, 02:21 PM
  #931
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I wouldn't overpay Samuelsson, who has probably peaked as a player. Hudler is only 25 and seems to be on the rise. I think you pay for his potential versus getting good but not great production out of Samuelsson, who is 7 years older. The best thing Sammy has in his favor that he's the right hand pointman on the power play. I can see next year Ericsson moving into that spot although he's another lefty.

I can see Samuelsson joining another team and still potting 20 goals...maybe 25. He's been a whipping boy on this team just because he's surrounded by so many quality players...he sticks out like a sore thumb. However in the cap era, he was a nice pickup when they got him much like Lilja and Cleary.

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05-21-2009, 05:01 PM
  #932
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The Wings have decided to go for the maximum in the short-term Lidstrom Window. Therefore they had to go with the mega contracts for the top players to keep their cap hits low.

The only possible result of this is that middle range salary guys get squeezed, and some get squeezed out. If Sammy were going to sign for his current salary or less, he would still be a low-end type salary. But with his demands/possibilities creeping up into middle range territory, he gets squeezed.

Ditto for Hudler. If they can keep his salary low, maybe he doesn't get squeezed off the roster. If it creeps up into that 2.5-3 mil or more area, then he's a prime candidate to get squeezed.

In order to fill in the roster behind the mega-contract guys, the Wings will need a maximum number of cheap players. Most of these guys will be young pups from GR or Sweden. Maybe they will find some guys near the end of the road (Owen Nolan is a guy that comes to mind, not because I think he's a candidate but that TYPE of guy) who will play for peanuts and one more run at a Cup.

Remember, HD and a lot of others said that the Wings would rue, RUE!!! the day they let Robert Lang walk after he scored a couple big goals in the 07 playoffs. What happened? Someone else got his minutes, and someone else stepped up.

Whether they pull their 09-10 depth players off of GR's roster, some Swedish team's roster, or the slag heap, if the Wings trust their evaluation and development personnel the way they always have, they will find someone that can give them 20 goals and 40 points next year.

Here's an idea - they probably already have found that player. Does anyone really think that if you give Ville Leino 15 minutes a night and put him on the 2nd PP unit, that he can't give you 20/20/40, at LEAST? And he'll cost a lot less than Sammy.

We've seen this movie before. Depth player's contract runs out and he's too expensive to keep (Lang)? Get an overage European rookie/young player (Sammy) to step in. Rinse, swap Lang for Sammy and Sammy for Leino, and repeat.

People freaking out over potentially losing Samuelsson is really ridiculous. He's got at least one Cup, might get another this year, and then he's going to go get paid and set himself up for life. He will be fine, and so will the Wings. Deep breaths, people, it will be ok.

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05-21-2009, 06:06 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The Wings have decided to go for the maximum in the short-term Lidstrom Window. Therefore they had to go with the mega contracts for the top players to keep their cap hits low.

The only possible result of this is that middle range salary guys get squeezed, and some get squeezed out. If Sammy were going to sign for his current salary or less, he would still be a low-end type salary. But with his demands/possibilities creeping up into middle range territory, he gets squeezed.

Ditto for Hudler. If they can keep his salary low, maybe he doesn't get squeezed off the roster. If it creeps up into that 2.5-3 mil or more area, then he's a prime candidate to get squeezed.

In order to fill in the roster behind the mega-contract guys, the Wings will need a maximum number of cheap players. Most of these guys will be young pups from GR or Sweden. Maybe they will find some guys near the end of the road (Owen Nolan is a guy that comes to mind, not because I think he's a candidate but that TYPE of guy) who will play for peanuts and one more run at a Cup.

Remember, HD and a lot of others said that the Wings would rue, RUE!!! the day they let Robert Lang walk after he scored a couple big goals in the 07 playoffs. What happened? Someone else got his minutes, and someone else stepped up.

Whether they pull their 09-10 depth players off of GR's roster, some Swedish team's roster, or the slag heap, if the Wings trust their evaluation and development personnel the way they always have, they will find someone that can give them 20 goals and 40 points next year.

Here's an idea - they probably already have found that player. Does anyone really think that if you give Ville Leino 15 minutes a night and put him on the 2nd PP unit, that he can't give you 20/20/40, at LEAST? And he'll cost a lot less than Sammy.

We've seen this movie before. Depth player's contract runs out and he's too expensive to keep (Lang)? Get an overage European rookie/young player (Sammy) to step in. Rinse, swap Lang for Sammy and Sammy for Leino, and repeat.

People freaking out over potentially losing Samuelsson is really ridiculous. He's got at least one Cup, might get another this year, and then he's going to go get paid and set himself up for life. He will be fine, and so will the Wings. Deep breaths, people, it will be ok.
We didn't replace Lang with Sammy. When Lang left, we gave the second line center job to Flip (for the most part) and let him run with it. Lang was a center, Sammy is a wing. So, we didn't swap one for the other.

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05-21-2009, 06:23 PM
  #934
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Is Hudler staying in DET? What do you gentlemen think!

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05-21-2009, 06:31 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The Wings have decided to go for the maximum in the short-term Lidstrom Window. Therefore they had to go with the mega contracts for the top players to keep their cap hits low.
Nah, I don't agree at all with your impression of the Wings motivation. I think the Wings did those mega contracts because they think those terms are a viable tool in the salary cap system. I mean, if they are presuming that guys like Zetterberg and Franzen (and Datsyuk next, just wait) are guys they want on the team their whole playing careers, well, since there's an obvious cap benefit for doing so, why not just lock them up till they are all 40+?

Yes, I have some concerns about the ethics of those contracts, but I'm looking at this from the Wings perspective, as you are.

If the Wings were as you suggest looking to max out the Lidstrom window, they probably would have signed Hossa to a multi-year deal right at the start, right?

Quote:
In order to fill in the roster behind the mega-contract guys, the Wings will need a maximum number of cheap players.
Ah, but that's part of the reason why Holland has gone out a gajillion years with these deals.

Now, if the team tries to bring Hossa back all bets are off. As you mention, it'll be next to impossible for the Wings to bring back anyone who makes more than a million dollars... but more and more I suspect that's not going to happen.

Detroit can get to a 57.4 million total salary cap number @ 22 players with Sammy at 2.5, Leino at 1, and letting Hossa and Hudler go.

Quote:
Remember, HD and a lot of others said that the Wings would rue, RUE!!! the day they let Robert Lang walk after he scored a couple big goals in the 07 playoffs.
That's not exactly an accurate representation of my position. I merely pointed out that after Lang the team would struggle to replace his offensive contribution... and for almost half of the following season they certainly did. If you would recall, that was right around the time ZDH was in effect, and for quite a while there it was the only line that did anything. Remember when Babcock kept trying to split Pavel and Hank up to try and jump-start that Lang-less second line?

I don't believe I ever presented an argument that Detroit would never be able to find a replacement for Robert Lang, ever. I merely pointed out that for all of Lang's flaws (and they were not insignificant) one positive thing he could be counted on was to provide a significant offensive punch from the center spot on the second line... and that was something the Wings did without for quite a while as a result.

Quote:
Here's an idea - they probably already have found that player. Does anyone really think that if you give Ville Leino 15 minutes a night and put him on the 2nd PP unit, that he can't give you 20/20/40, at LEAST? And he'll cost a lot less than Sammy.
Again, if all you do is distill Sammy's game down to his raw offensive production during the regular season... sure, it's not an insurmountable thing to replace.

Is that all you think Sammy provides?

Quote:
People freaking out over potentially losing Samuelsson is really ridiculous. He's got at least one Cup, might get another this year, and then he's going to go get paid and set himself up for life. He will be fine, and so will the Wings. Deep breaths, people, it will be ok.
I don't believe you are accurately representing the reaction to the possibility of Sammy leaving/being left by the the Wings. But, perhaps I missed the posts where people were 'freaking out'. I trust you'll point them out to me.

At any rate, I think it's a valid concern to wonder about the ability to replace a player who Babcock feels confident enough to use in so many different situations, and who in addition to providing timely offense also has some sandpaper to his game.

Now, maybe there are 416 players just like Sammy or better just walking the streets. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, though. I don't believe it prudent to significantly overpay to retain him, but a contract in the neighboorhood of 2-2.5 a mil cap-wise may make some real sense.

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05-21-2009, 06:49 PM
  #936
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I still think the team is better with Sammy, Hudler et al. and the old codgers gone instead of the other way around. If the point is to have the strongest team possible while Nick is still here, that's not accomplished by protecting the 38 yo crowd (other than Nick) at the expense of guys who are ten years younger and - even - better today.

Ah well.

 
Old
05-21-2009, 07:09 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I still think the team is better with Sammy, Hudler et al. and the old codgers gone instead of the other way around. If the point is to have the strongest team possible while Nick is still here, that's not accomplished by protecting the 38 yo crowd (other than Nick) at the expense of guys who are ten years younger and - even - better today.

Ah well.
Are you suggesting we but out Draper, Maltby and Homer? That's not going to happen.

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05-21-2009, 07:18 PM
  #938
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It's not going to, but it should. You can't hang on to everyone if it starts leading to losing younger, better players because of a cap crunch. Those three account for ~$4.5M in cap space that could be scratched right now and not affect our chances to win the Cup one bit. Maltby has been a healthy scratch on and off already. Draper missed the first two rounds. Homer hasn't done anything so far that couldn't be replaced by putting Cleary on the PP and keeping Abby in the lineup.

Granted they need replacements, but Helm at $600K, Abby at $850K, and Leino at $1M-ish in place of that trio shave $2M off the payroll. That's the difference between keeping or losing a guy like Hudler or Samuelsson.

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05-21-2009, 08:25 PM
  #939
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Are you suggesting we but out Draper, Maltby and Homer? That's not going to happen.
I know it's not going to happen. I stated in my opening diatribe/dissertation that if one could wipe the slate clean, a few extra million of overpaid weight could be freed so that players who indeed ARE better could be kept.

I've been a huge critic of this CBA and the cap, but there is one facet that it seems GMs, even Holland haven't availed themselves of fully (some GMs). The CBA gives them the perfect excuse to tell ANY 35+ vet that they can only sign year-to-year, maybe 2 yrs max. In fact, other than the rare defenseman, there aren't many 35+ vets that are key contributors any longer. Note: Selanne is a true exception, not the norm. I'm not saying you dump them all either, but that's when a GM has the real leverage to flesh out the younger side of the roster, then keep some key vets along with smaller contracts. The contract lengths of 1-2 years make sure that you have the flexibility to get out of it. If things don't go well, you only have to really worry about the second year as far as permanent cap hit, but then again, you shouln't be handing out too many of these either. Three year deals? No way, especially if you plan on playing the salary cap maximizing game.

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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
It's not going to, but it should. You can't hang on to everyone if it starts leading to losing younger, better players because of a cap crunch. Those three account for ~$4.5M in cap space that could be scratched right now and not affect our chances to win the Cup one bit. Maltby has been a healthy scratch on and off already. Draper missed the first two rounds. Homer hasn't done anything so far that couldn't be replaced by putting Cleary on the PP and keeping Abby in the lineup.

Granted they need replacements, but Helm at $600K, Abby at $850K, and Leino at $1M-ish in place of that trio shave $2M off the payroll. That's the difference between keeping or losing a guy like Hudler or Samuelsson.
Exactly.

 
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05-21-2009, 08:38 PM
  #940
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Homer is slowly turning into a fourth line forward who will get under 10 minutes of even strength time, and a lot of minutes on the PP. Basically, he is turning into a PP specialist, imo.
This is funny. Homer was that 10minute 4th liner + PP specialist all the years before the lockout.

After the lockout, quite surprisingly at the the age of 32, his game blossomed at even strength, but now I think he is wearing down.

Thank god we have The Mule and Cleary to replace him.

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05-21-2009, 08:41 PM
  #941
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This is funny. Homer was that 10minute 4th liner + PP specialist all the years before the lockout.

After the lockout, quite surprisingly at the the age of 32, his game blossomed at even strength, but now I think he is wearing down.

Thank god we have The Mule and Cleary to replace him.
I am aware of that. Babcock gave him regular minutes with Z and D and he had his best years in what is usually the tail end of a forward's prime. But, based on his play this year, and the large amounts of injuries and abuse he has suffered over the course of his career, I think it is unrealistic to expect him to continue to be a top line player.

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05-21-2009, 09:05 PM
  #942
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It's not going to, but it should.
As it happens, that would be dumb.

Go here:

http://www.redwingscentral.com/featu...calculator.php

And run some of those numbers.

If the Wings bought out Maltby, they'd have 383k and 250k in dead cap space.
If the Wings bought out Homer, they'd have 750k of dead cap space for two years.
Buying out Draper is impossible, or at least pointless, because he signed his multi-year deal past the age of 35.

So, add on those dead cap numbers to whomever you dudes had in mind to replace those older forwards, and then try and make the cap numbers work. What ends up happening is that rather than paying Maltby 883k, you'd be 'paying' more than that to replace him with Helm, and way more than that to replace him with Abdelkader.

Quote:
You can't hang on to everyone if it starts leading to losing younger, better players because of a cap crunch.
They are certainly younger. They are not certainly better. Not right now. Not yet.

Quote:
Granted they need replacements, but Helm at $600K, Abby at $850K, and Leino at $1M-ish in place of that trio shave $2M off the payroll. That's the difference between keeping or losing a guy like Hudler or Samuelsson.
Except as I've pointed out... it's really not. Right now Homer, Maltby and Draper cost a combined total of like 4.6 mil. If you bought those three out and replaced them with Helm, Abdelkader and Leino... even at the dollar numbers you listed... it would cost a combined total of 4.9 million the first year and 4.7ish million the second.

So, more expensive, not less.

The only way you could dodge those cap numbers is for the Wings to be incredibly classless and try and force Maltby and Homer to retire out from under their deals. They are stuck with Draper's cap hit regardless.

And, even then, even after completely humiliating themselves as an organization by throwing guys like Homer and Maltby under the bus, you're only talking about saving 700k in net cap space, which isn't nearly enough to be impactful on the larger scheme of things.

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05-21-2009, 09:11 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I've been a huge critic of this CBA and the cap, but there is one facet that it seems GMs, even Holland haven't availed themselves of fully (some GMs). The CBA gives them the perfect excuse to tell ANY 35+ vet that they can only sign year-to-year, maybe 2 yrs max.
Nah. Any non-clueless agents will simply demand that the team loads up their client on a multi-year deal at age 33 or 34 instead, just to get ahead of the 'deadline', so to speak. I highly, highly doubt any above average players with non-moronic agents are going to place themselves in a position where their deals expire on or shortly following their 35th birthday.

That would be really stupid of them.

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05-21-2009, 09:13 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
As it happens, that would be dumb.

Go here:

http://www.redwingscentral.com/featu...calculator.php

And run some of those numbers.

If the Wings bought out Maltby, they'd have 383k and 250k in dead cap space.
If the Wings bought out Homer, they'd have 750k of dead cap space for two years.
Buying out Draper is impossible, or at least pointless, because he signed his multi-year deal past the age of 35.

So, add on those dead cap numbers to whomever you dudes had in mind to replace those older forwards, and then try and make the cap numbers work. What ends up happening is that rather than paying Maltby 883k, you'd be 'paying' more than that to replace him with Helm, and way more than that to replace him with Abdelkader.



They are certainly younger. They are not certainly better. Not right now. Not yet.



Except as I've pointed out... it's really not. Right now Homer, Maltby and Draper cost a combined total of like 4.6 mil. If you bought those three out and replaced them with Helm, Abdelkader and Leino... even at the dollar numbers you listed... it would cost a combined total of 4.9 million the first year and 4.7ish million the second.

So, more expensive, not less.

The only way you could dodge those cap numbers is for the Wings to be incredibly classless and try and force Maltby and Homer to retire out from under their deals. They are stuck with Draper's cap hit regardless.

And, even then, even after completely humiliating themselves as an organization by throwing guys like Homer and Maltby under the bus, you're only talking about saving 700k in net cap space, which isn't nearly enough to be impactful on the larger scheme of things.
Bingo

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05-21-2009, 09:15 PM
  #945
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I am aware of that. Babcock gave him regular minutes with Z and D and he had his best years in what is usually the tail end of a forward's prime. But, based on his play this year, and the large amounts of injuries and abuse he has suffered over the course of his career, I think it is unrealistic to expect him to continue to be a top line player.
Homer's declination is more bad news for Hudler's roster spot, really. Now the team has Leino and Homer who they could probably plug right in to Hudler's 4th line ES, 2nd unit PP role and produce approximately as well for < 2.5.

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05-21-2009, 09:29 PM
  #946
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If you're dumping Hossa, you keep Hudler. It's not going to be hard.
With Holmstrom nearing his end, Hudler becomes more important and valuable, long term.

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05-21-2009, 09:36 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
If you're dumping Hossa, you keep Hudler. It's not going to be hard.
With Holmstrom nearing his end, Hudler becomes more important and valuable, long term.
Homer becoming less valuable makes Franzen and Cleary more important on our PP b/c of the net presence and the ability to play on the top line. I don't see how that relates to Hudler.

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05-21-2009, 10:44 PM
  #948
RedMenace
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I never want to get dragged into the Hudler vs the World arguments, because they always turn out the same.

However, would Hudler signing an 8 year, $20m contract be something anyone could see Holland doing? Obviously he's not scared of the long-term deals for players he feels are key ingredients, and after Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk, Filppula, and possibly Hossa (if he sticks around), who else on the team has as much or more skill than Hudler?

Nobody.

Leino can be brought up, sure, but he's actually older than Hudler and hasn't "proven" himself in the NHL yet. Helm should be a fixture on the team next year, and he's a perfect replacement for Samuelsson in the short-term, and ultimately Draper when he's expired. Abdelkadabra is a Maltby replacement, and then you have Kopecky. One of those three can be trained to stand in front of the net, but we already have Cleary -- and Franzen to an extent -- taking the place of Holmstrom on a top line, and Kopecky has already shown that he's not too afraid to go into the high-traffic areas.

Other than Leino, Helm, and Abbadabbadoo, what other forwards are going to fight for a spot on the roster next year (barring some surprise, of course)? How much time does Admiral Akbar have left to stay in the minors without risking waivers?

Of course, pretty much ALL of this discussion hinges on whether or not Hossa stays, and how much of a "discount" he takes to stay here, so what's the point, really?

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05-21-2009, 11:05 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Nah. Any non-clueless agents will simply demand that the team loads up their client on a multi-year deal at age 33 or 34 instead, just to get ahead of the 'deadline', so to speak. I highly, highly doubt any above average players with non-moronic agents are going to place themselves in a position where their deals expire on or shortly following their 35th birthday.

That would be really stupid of them.

Sure it would, but one could argue that this is exactly the point when UFAs should have the least amount of leverage, right after the 35+ group. Maybe you give them the couple of years, but that's it! At 35+, the best they can get is 1-2 yrs, so it's a wash if we're at 33 and renegotiating. On the other hand, it's when the deal is signed that's the issue. If a guy signs a contract that carries him over to those years, you're off the hook with the 35+ rule, with no way to remove it from the cap. Homer and Malts wouldn't be a problem if the Wings wanted to dump them (knowing they wouldn't do that). The 'problem' contracts are the Draper and Ozzie ones that are 3 yrs long, signed after 35.... if the guy dies, you're stuck with the cap hit, as you know.

 
Old
05-21-2009, 11:14 PM
  #950
jacK
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The only way you could dodge those cap numbers is for the Wings to be incredibly classless and try and force Maltby and Homer to retire out from under their deals.
after this season/playoffs, there's nothing classless about asking those specific guys to hang em up. they're shells of who they were supposed to be when they signed their contracts, and are doing a disservice to the team (that they love, and have loved them in return) by hogging the cap room and roster spots.

if they don't want to retire, then the team should honor the deals and make a go of it with what they've got next year, but they wouldn't be doing a good job managing things if they didn't explore their options for losing some dead weight.

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