HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

12/31/08 "Out With The Old, In With The New York" - Panthers VS. Islanders

View Poll Results: Who Resolves To Win The Game?
Panthers 10 71.43%
Islanders 4 28.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-31-2008, 05:36 PM
  #101
Pukboy5kroner
Registered User
 
Pukboy5kroner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
except jay's the most consistent defender we have. take him out of the lineup and this team is much weaker, imo. sounds good but i still think the focus has to be on keeping jay. the way this tandem's fallen apart though, it's making me think twice about dealing vokoun. if they don't figure out how to get back to playing 60 minutes of team hockey within another week or so, i'd be supportive of some kind of deal, though i don't know who i'd want to deal off-hand.
Yep, that deal trades one problem for another. With Bouwmeester gone, that creates 25-30 minutes of a gaping hole on defense, which Welch or Murphy can't make up for. Cullimore and Boynton get more minutes to show off their all world speed. The team gets to see how many games an Anderson-Gerber tandem can steal for them. And yeah, if Horton can actually put some of those passes into the net, the offense is a bit better.

If Bouwmeester is being traded, and if on top of that Vokoun is being traded, the team isn't going to be making any headway on a playoff birth, but a rebuild instead.

Pukboy5kroner is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:37 PM
  #102
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Ottawa has been shopping Spezza. It has been reported in thr Ottawa papers. The problem they're having in moving him is not the production lost in trading him, they would move Vermette back to his natural position of center which hopefully would wake him up, but in finding a team to take his long term expensive contract, a $7 mil cap figure over the next 7 years and $8 mil in actual money the next 5 years. But in the Panthers case, that would be money they had allocated to sign Bouw long term.
OK, well they might be asking for a center back or at least a player who could add offense (Horton)

Why would a team who is probably out of the playoffs take Bouw a UFA?

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:41 PM
  #103
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,837
vCash: 500
Would it be desirable to keep Bouw? Absolutely but that has about as much a chance of happening as us winning the Stanley Cup this season. The realistic choices are, how do you want to lose him, by trade or free agency?

Georgia Panther is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:44 PM
  #104
Pukboy5kroner
Registered User
 
Pukboy5kroner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Would it be desirable to keep Bouw? Absolutely but that has about as much a chance of happening as us winning the Stanley Cup this season. The realistic choices are, how do you want to lose him, by trade or free agency?
Seeing as I have very little control over the matter, I'll just wait a bit and see what happens. However, I don't think the trade you proposed helps the team.

Pukboy5kroner is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:45 PM
  #105
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Jay is gone, either by trade before the deadline or for nothing as a free agent at the end of the season. Deal with it.
i think it's foolish to insist he will or won't anything right now.

zeroG is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:45 PM
  #106
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
OK, well they might be asking for a center back or at least a player who could add offense (Horton)

Why would a team who is probably out of the playoffs take Bouw a UFA?
Ottawa or should I say Ottawa's owner, still thinks he can win a Stanley Cup this season and a big trade may be the only way to accomplish that. and it also maybe the only way BM saves his job. Ottawa, with it's winning tradition and hockey town atmosphere, at least has a chance of signing Bouw.

Georgia Panther is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:46 PM
  #107
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Would it be desirable to keep Bouw? Absolutely but that has about as much a chance of happening as us winning the Stanley Cup this season. The realistic choices are, how do you want to lose him, by trade or free agency?
I'm not sure if you're responding to me.

Bouw will be traded and should be traded ASAP. This will definitely shake things up and I would be furious if we keep him past the TD only to watch him walk away with nothing in return.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:52 PM
  #108
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Ottawa or should I say Ottawa's owner, still thinks he can win a Stanley Cup this season and a big trade may be the only way to accomplish that. and it also maybe the only way BM saves his job. Ottawa, with it's winning tradition and hockey town atmosphere, at least has a chance of signing Bouw.
I think I want Spezza but I highly doubt we get him. However, sometimes I question his value to this team since he plays with Alfie and Heatley, both players who would be far and away the best offensive players on this team. Its going to be a significant downgrade to Horton and Stillman .

I would trade Vokoun. He is going to be a salary cap headache, 100% his final year and probably not worth it the cost next year and this year is certainly debatable.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 05:55 PM
  #109
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i think it's foolish to insist he will or won't anything right now.
Jay wants out. He just isn't into the lifestyle down here. The guy makes 4 million dollars and drives a chevy pickup. He also walked away from a lot of guaranteed money while risking, albeit small, the chance of a serious injury and losing out on big money because of the injury. He isn't stupid and neither is his agent. They signed the one year contract for a reason. The waiting to see how things turn out comment is simply politicking.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:10 PM
  #110
PanthersRule96
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,030
vCash: 500
Honestly, Bouw leaving will kill our defense. I didn't think that before, but Cullimore, McCabe, Bonyton, and Skrastins all are capable of looking horrendous on any given night. Ballard and Bouwmeester are the only two really good defensemen we have.

I disagree with pulling Tomas. It wasn't his fault that they were allowed to come in so close to him and get shots off. It also wasn't his fault on the one that was banked in off his skate. With the way our defense has been allowing passes through the slot and crease, he has no choice. He didn't let that in because he cheated off the post. He let that in because Comrie faked the pass and then hit Vokouns skate which sent it in. If our defense were competent, he wouldn't have to worry about getting across to stop a pass that has as much of a chance of going in off of our own defensman as it does to getting tipped by the other team.

PanthersRule96 is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:12 PM
  #111
PanthersRule96
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 6,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
Yep, that deal trades one problem for another. With Bouwmeester gone, that creates 25-30 minutes of a gaping hole on defense, which Welch or Murphy can't make up for. Cullimore and Boynton get more minutes to show off their all world speed.
If Bouwmeester is being traded, and if on top of that Vokoun is being traded, the team isn't going to be making any headway on a playoff birth, but a rebuild instead.
I could live with Bouw being dealt but Vokoun should not be traded.

I agree 100% with you about Cullimore and Boynton. I'm glad someone sees it the same way I do.

PanthersRule96 is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:19 PM
  #112
Panthers_Fan
Registered User
 
Panthers_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 1,083
vCash: 500
I just started to believe in this team and get some optimism and then the team starts losing again.

Panthers_Fan is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:23 PM
  #113
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Jay wants out. He just isn't into the lifestyle down here. The guy makes 4 million dollars and drives a chevy pickup. He also walked away from a lot of guaranteed money while risking, albeit small, the chance of a serious injury and losing out on big money because of the injury. He isn't stupid and neither is his agent. They signed the one year contract for a reason. The waiting to see how things turn out comment is simply politicking.
and you know this because of...? oh yeah, right, you and jay are good buddies

seriously, i don't doubt that western canada runs deep in him but that's really a preposterous statement. he's never said anything about it and hell, i'm sure there are other athletes. who drive around in chevy trucks.

and if all he wanted to do was get out of here, explain why he signed the 1 year deal versus going to arbitration, where he probably would've gotten a bit more (still taking the same risk this year). sorry, i don't buy it.

zeroG is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:34 PM
  #114
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
and you know this because of...? oh yeah, right, you and jay are good buddies

seriously, i don't doubt that western canada runs deep in him but that's really a preposterous statement. he's never said anything about it and hell, i'm sure there are other athletes. who drive around in chevy trucks.

and if all he wanted to do was get out of here, explain why he signed the 1 year deal versus going to arbitration, where he probably would've gotten a bit more (still taking the same risk this year). sorry, i don't buy it.
I know this because George Richards has commented on this several times. I'm sure other posters can back me up on this. Anyone who has consistently read his blog knows this. Sorry, your attempt at belittling me failed.

I can't recall the reason why he signed for one year over going to arbitration. I think its because he would have to wait to negotiate until the end of the season. He can now negotiate Jan 1. Which could either mean to negotiate with the new team he gets traded to or to potentially negotiate with us.

Jay and his agent are not stupid. They are positioning him to be the most coveted UFA defenseman and possibly the most sought after UFA. He has no family down here, he isn't married. No connections. If he liked it down here he would do what Olesz, Horton, McCabe, Weiss, Ballard have done. He doesn't want to commit to this team and is clearly ready to leave. All the signs are there. Sorry if your perspective is blurred by your hoping he signs when you should have a clear view of the situation.

I would like to re-sign him but I don't see it happening.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:34 PM
  #115
Mogo
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Mogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 10,391
vCash: 500
Does Bouw leaving really matter at this point. This team is doomed. They never make moves to shakeup the team during the season. Gimme the 1rst, overpaid dman and crappy prospect we'll get for Bouw

Mogo is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:41 PM
  #116
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
Honestly, Bouw leaving will kill our defense. I didn't think that before, but Cullimore, McCabe, Bonyton, and Skrastins all are capable of looking horrendous on any given night. Ballard and Bouwmeester are the only two really good defensemen we have.

I disagree with pulling Tomas. It wasn't his fault that they were allowed to come in so close to him and get shots off. It also wasn't his fault on the one that was banked in off his skate. With the way our defense has been allowing passes through the slot and crease, he has no choice. He didn't let that in because he cheated off the post. He let that in because Comrie faked the pass and then hit Vokouns skate which sent it in. If our defense were competent, he wouldn't have to worry about getting across to stop a pass that has as much of a chance of going in off of our own defensman as it does to getting tipped by the other team.
glad you're coming around, pr. isn't it amazing how solid he is day in and day out. people complain about this and that but he really is a fantastic hockey player. very consistent and very good.

and i said something similar about the defense to blackpanthers offline. the chances are just ridiculous and the loose play is affecting the goaltenders. it started before the TB game. it was evident in the vancouver game, in the edmonton game... we didn't completely fall apart though. we played a tough game in carolina and stuck it out against colorado and nashville, playing solid 60 minute games, and very good team defense. then, for some reason - maybe they decided they had arrived and could take it easy - all of the bad bits, the lackadaisical hockey ingrained in some of these guys heads that we'd seen the previous couple of weeks (and previous seasons) surfaced all at once, compounded by a kind of quit we haven't seen in a month and a half. the goalies struggled and now we have a vicious cycle on our hands. tampa was probably the worst team we could have played last weekend. dammit.

anyhow, about vokoun - i think he had to pull him because, unlike in some of the games back at the beginning of this stretch, neither he nor the team was playing well. i think it was probably as much about trying to get the boys' heads out of their you know whats than about vokoun's play. he didn't look good today but i think it was clear to anybody watching today that the team was NOT playing defense in that 2nd and 3rd period tonight.

zeroG is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:54 PM
  #117
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I know this because George Richards has commented on this several times. I'm sure other posters can back me up on this. Anyone who has consistently read his blog knows this. Sorry, your attempt at belittling me failed.

I can't recall the reason why he signed for one year over going to arbitration. I think its because he would have to wait to negotiate until the end of the season. He can now negotiate Jan 1. Which could either mean to negotiate with the new team he gets traded to or to potentially negotiate with us.

Jay and his agent are not stupid. They are positioning him to be the most coveted UFA defenseman and possibly the most sought after UFA. He has no family down here, he isn't married. No connections. If he liked it down here he would do what Olesz, Horton, McCabe, Weiss, Ballard have done. He doesn't want to commit to this team and is clearly ready to leave. All the signs are there. Sorry if your perspective is blurred by your hoping he signs when you should have a clear view of the situation.

I would like to re-sign him but I don't see it happening.
i read GR's blog. i follow all the team's news, watch all of the interviews on the team's site. i follow everything and i haven't heard anything like that. i think most people will tell you that you that they've never heard anything like that, in fact quite the opposite. i'll leave it at that.

your response about the 1 year deal versus arbitration doesn't help your case.

zeroG is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 06:58 PM
  #118
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i read GR's blog. i follow all the team's news, watch all of the interviews on the team's site. i follow everything and i haven't heard anything like that. i think most people will tell you that you that they've never heard anything like that, in fact quite the opposite. i'll leave it at that.

your response about the 1 year deal versus arbitration doesn't help your case.
Well, you're 100% wrong. I don't have the time now to link you to blog posts but George Richards has commented on this a handful of times. Do you think I'm making this up??

Like I said, I'm not sure why he did, just trying to have an honest discussion. Also, you don't seem to know either so...

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 07:08 PM
  #119
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Well, you're 100% wrong. I don't have the time now to link you to blog posts but George Richards has commented on this a handful of times. Do you think I'm making this up??

Like I said, I'm not sure why he did, just trying to have an honest discussion. Also, you don't seem to know either so...
i might remember GR speculating about this or that but there's been nothing from jay or anyone close to him other than a silly statement from his father. given how quiet jay is, it's pretty safe to say that anything from GR along those lines would be wild speculation. perhaps if he checks in from lovely western PA tonight, he can confirm either way.

let me ask this though - why would just about everyone on this forum (all of whom read the blog) have been optimistic about him re-signing lately if they knew he hated and couldn't wait to leave?

zeroG is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 07:08 PM
  #120
Georgia Panther
Registered User
 
Georgia Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BufordGA/FranklinNC
Posts: 4,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i read GR's blog. i follow all the team's news, watch all of the interviews on the team's site. i follow everything and i haven't heard anything like that. i think most people will tell you that you that they've never heard anything like that, in fact quite the opposite. i'll leave it at that.

your response about the 1 year deal versus arbitration doesn't help your case.
Bouw is a soft-spoken low key guy. Why would he want to go through the ordeal of an arbitration hearing knowing he will more than make up what he could have won at the hearing at the end of the season as a free agent? His obvious plan is to just concentrate on playing hockey, avoid questions on his future and then land in the city and team of his choice at the end of the season. Indeed, he may just give the appearance of indecision on re-signing with the Panthers to the Florida Brass to hold off as long as possible the turmoil a mid-season trade would cause him.

Georgia Panther is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 07:14 PM
  #121
RainingRats
Registered User
 
RainingRats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i might remember GR speculating about this or that but there's been nothing from jay or anyone close to him other than a silly statement from his father. given how quiet jay is, it's pretty safe to say that anything from GR along those lines would be wild speculation. perhaps if he checks in from lovely western PA tonight, he can confirm either way.

let me ask this though - why would just about everyone on this forum (all of whom read the blog) have been optimistic about him re-signing lately if they knew he hated and couldn't wait to leave?
Because we were playing well and they HOPED he would sign. Unfortunately, it seems very unlikely at this point since it seems we've regressed back to the old-panthers.

Some of us realized he isn't going to sign long term when he passed up the opportunity multiple times. The writing is on the wall. Its up to you if you choose to ignore it. Again, I want to sign him but I highly doubt it. I WILL BE SHOCKED IF HE SIGNS LONG TERM.

RainingRats is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 08:34 PM
  #122
Panthers/Leafs fan
 
Panthers/Leafs fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Country: Belgium
Posts: 2,428
vCash: 500
Very disappointing. I'm optimistic, but besides Frolik, pretty much nothing there tonight.

Panthers/Leafs fan is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 08:47 PM
  #123
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Because we were playing well and they HOPED he would sign. Unfortunately, it seems very unlikely at this point since it seems we've regressed back to the old-panthers.

Some of us realized he isn't going to sign long term when he passed up the opportunity multiple times. The writing is on the wall. Its up to you if you choose to ignore it. Again, I want to sign him but I highly doubt it. I WILL BE SHOCKED IF HE SIGNS LONG TERM.
i ... don't necessarily disagree that this the sentiment and maybe even the reality but this isn't what we were talking about. you said very bluntly that he didn't want to be here because he didn't like the lifestyle. this is, afaict, utter speculation.

i think some of you "came to the conclusion" that he wasn't going to sign is a better way to put it. nobody knows what's really going on and in fact, jay's behavior is not inconsistent with that of a person who's not sure he wants to commit to playing 3-4+ years for a team that can't stop stepping on its own !@#$ BUT still might if they prove they've arrived as a legitimate organization. i think anybody who could would do the same. he wants to win. perhaps as a kid who's always been deprived of that opportunity (aside from team canada), he's more concerned about it. in closing, i still think it's questionable as to whether he re-signs and the regression the past week isn't helping but remember, two weeks ago, in the afterglow of that canadian trip where the team really garnered a lot of great press, i came out and said i saw him re-signing. i still think it's possible but we're in danger of making it a no-brainer decision for him.

zeroG is offline  
Old
12-31-2008, 09:05 PM
  #124
handbanana
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
handbanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 9,352
vCash: 500
If or when Jay is gone the team will be back to square zero. Just watch it happen. I can honestly say that he's the only real talent the Panthers have who will actually work for his paycheck.

The criticism against him (not physical enough) is far outweighed by the fact that he essentially plays half the game and doesn't rack up any injuries. Let the lesser talent throw the body and Jay handle the finer points of the game. The other criticism against him is kindergarten mentality BS. The only player I can say gets more criticism for his personality is Avery, and what has Jay really done to deserve being second to that? If all he wants to do is play hockey, ffs let him. He's good at it.

I don't think we can know what lifestyle he prefers, but when he got in trouble it happened in Edmonton so I don't think the location is a factor. Us northerners rarely stay infatuated with Florida for more than a few years so maybe he's getting as antsy to get back up north as I am, but maybe not... a rink is a rink here or up there, and I think whatever choice he makes will ultimately be what's best for his career. He keeps saying he's not a young guy anymore, to me that suggests he's thinking about where he's heading now that he's about to be getting into d-man prime.

Back to him leaving and where that would leave the team though... we all know Panthers will never cough up the money to sign a UFA close to his caliber, and we have no one to trade for such a player either (Jay's contract situation being what it is right now). The only way would be to draft well again, and not even that is a guarantee as we've seen from a few of our other top picks.

handbanana is offline  
Old
01-01-2009, 12:59 AM
  #125
Madhatter73
Registered User
 
Madhatter73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 661
vCash: 500
Trade Bo+ for a scoring center.

Trade Nate for a defenseman to replace Bo.

Problems solved.

Madhatter73 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.