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DeBoer is trigger-happy

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Old
12-31-2008, 07:16 PM
  #1
Keeping Karlsson
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DeBoer is trigger-happy

What's up with him compulsively pulling his goalies? The past 3 games in a row, and then a whole bunch of times on top of that this season so far.
You have to figure it's not helping either one of them in terms of confidence or just being comfortable in net. How can you expect to get consistent play out of your goalies when you don't give them a chance to settle in? They're probably both terrified of letting in a goal to the point that it affects their play.. or it seems that way, with how they've been performing lately (and they're 2 high-quality ones, too).

I mean, Vokoun was pulled after THREE goals today, on 22 shots.. is it really helping anyone?

edit: Just saw this in a write-up on today's game:
"Obviously, some of those goals should have been stopped," Vokoun said. "People make mistakes all the time. This has never happened to me in my career. But I'm not blaming my mistakes on anybody else. When you get pulled three of the last four games, it's going to shake your confidence."


Last edited by Keeping Karlsson: 12-31-2008 at 07:21 PM.
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Old
12-31-2008, 10:10 PM
  #2
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Haven't the replacements performed better when he did yank the starters? If they win, there's no criticism because his choice saved the game...

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12-31-2008, 11:49 PM
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He left Vokoun in for that 6 goal drubbing the other day. That didn't help his confidence any either...

I agree 100% with DeBoer's goaltending choices with one exception... Anderson can't be in net for a shootout...

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01-01-2009, 09:48 AM
  #4
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No...he's not. 3 or 4 games over the last 30-something makes him trigger happy? T-Vo needs to do a much better job against the week goals if he expects to stay in.

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01-01-2009, 10:10 AM
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sinDer
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Vokoun just has to stop pucks

Even if the D makes some mistakes, His job is to make key saves to keep his team in the game, that's what an all-star goalie does

Can't wait the day where we'll finally get ride of this random goalie

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01-01-2009, 11:13 AM
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I agree with Sinder, that's what an all-star goalie does.

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01-01-2009, 11:29 AM
  #7
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You guys are right, All-Star goalies make impossible saves on shots that they can't see. Goalies don't need teams, that's why so many All-Star games end up being 1-0, 2-1, etc.

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01-01-2009, 11:36 AM
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Hi RoadDog (you're going to have to explain that name...)

You're right, too. What we're saying is that all-star goaltenders STEAL games. To suggest that goaltenders do it alone is, of course, ridiculous. Thanks for pointing that out and letting us clarify.

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01-01-2009, 11:51 AM
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Goalies don't normally steal games when the coach is itching to pull them. There's usually confidence in them on the bench, and when the team's mistakes are pinned on them, they've got six players' responsibilities on their shoulders. The fact that so many of the goals he's allowed weren't his fault is telling. He's a great goalie, even though his head is being messed with (albeit unintentionally) by DeBoer.

Anyway, I got my name from the wrestler. He was my favorite in middle school, and I tried to make my name on AIM RoadDogg but it was taken. AIM suggested adding your state to the end and I've used it since.

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01-01-2009, 12:13 PM
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from best to worst tandem in the league!!!! both goalies are lacking confidence. it's time to settle them down and let them work through it. the question is which one???? i chose andy!

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01-01-2009, 12:17 PM
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That must have been one really bad wrestler to end up with the name "Road Dog."

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01-01-2009, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
from best to worst tandem in the league!!!! both goalies are lacking confidence. it's time to settle them down and let them work through it. the question is which one???? i chose andy!
So what do you do with Vokoun then Harv? He probably won't just make the best of the situation. He could even become a cancer, since he is likely respected by other players.

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01-01-2009, 01:27 PM
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Pukboy5kroner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
So what do you do with Vokoun then Harv? He probably won't just make the best of the situation. He could even become a cancer, since he is likely respected by other players.
That cancer word gets thrown around so much that we should start calling it something else less dire, maybe heat rash or boo-boo.

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01-01-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers/Leafs fan View Post
That must have been one really bad wrestler to end up with the name "Road Dog."
He was never a star like The Rock, but he was awesome. A fan favorite, really charismatic and part of DX. Look up some videos or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
So what do you do with Vokoun then Harv? He probably won't just make the best of the situation. He could even become a cancer, since he is likely respected by other players.
Great, DeBoer's turned Vokoun from a locker room leader and deserving captain to a locker room cancer now? He was the only winner on the team last year...

I hate this team's fanbase.

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01-01-2009, 01:59 PM
  #15
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadDoggFL View Post
He Great, DeBoer's turned Vokoun from a locker room leader and deserving captain to a locker room cancer now? He was the only winner on the team last year...

I hate this team's fanbase.
That's because you're not clearly reading what they're saying and are taking some comments to literal. Best to worst? Hardly, not close really. So far as him being the only winner on the team, Bouw? Booth? Allen? Weiss? The only winner? This is all get way out of hand. Unnecessarily so to boot.

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01-01-2009, 02:06 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
That cancer word gets thrown around so much that we should start calling it something else less dire, maybe heat rash or boo-boo.
I suggest "jock itch".

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Old
01-01-2009, 02:16 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
That's because you're not clearly reading what they're saying and are taking some comments to literal. Best to worst? Hardly, not close really. So far as him being the only winner on the team, Bouw? Booth? Allen? Weiss? The only winner? This is all get way out of hand. Unnecessarily so to boot.
Yeah, because Vokoun wasn't the only player on the team last year demanding better from them. Oh wait, he was. Last year, the entire roster was ok with just writing off another season, maybe make another playoff run when it's too late in the season if it falls into their laps but the losses in the meantime were ok.

Vokoun spoke up after each game with the standards of a winner and called players out. Were Bouw, Booth, Allen and Weiss doing that? Yeah, they'd give the effort, but Vokoun was holding the team to some real standards but somehow people think he'll become a cancer now. If so, it's quite an accomplishment for coach DeBoer and I hope JM gets him a regular run-of-the-mill goalie tandem along with a stronger offense as that's a roster that I think will respond better to his methods.

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01-01-2009, 02:21 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadDoggFL View Post
Yeah, because Vokoun wasn't the only player on the team last year demanding better from them. Oh wait, he was. Last year, the entire roster was ok with just writing off another season, maybe make another playoff run when it's too late in the season if it falls into their laps but the losses in the meantime were ok.

Vokoun spoke up after each game with the standards of a winner and called players out. Were Bouw, Booth, Allen and Weiss doing that? Yeah, they'd give the effort, but Vokoun was holding the team to some real standards but somehow people think he'll become a cancer now. If so, it's quite an accomplishment for coach DeBoer and I hope JM gets him a regular run-of-the-mill goalie tandem along with a stronger offense as that's a roster that I think will respond better to his methods.
Again...overboard. How do you know what was said in the lockerroom? Everything isn't, not should it be, nor does it need to be, aried out in the press. You're making assumptions and overly defensive for some reason, you don't know what was said, you weren't in the room.

Stop jumping down my throat, I've been one of Vokoun's biggest supporters and I'm glad he's here, was ecstatic when he got here. However, he's looked shaky at times, early in the season, and he has earned much of his criticism, especially since he calls guys out. If he's going to do that, he needs to come out and give a solid effort. Maybe he is, as Zero always points out and I have just now, we dont' know what's going on in his head, but weak goals send a bad message.

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01-01-2009, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadDoggFL View Post
Yeah, because Vokoun wasn't the only player on the team last year demanding better from them. Oh wait, he was. Last year, the entire roster was ok with just writing off another season, maybe make another playoff run when it's too late in the season if it falls into their laps but the losses in the meantime were ok.

Vokoun spoke up after each game with the standards of a winner and called players out. Were Bouw, Booth, Allen and Weiss doing that? Yeah, they'd give the effort, but Vokoun was holding the team to some real standards but somehow people think he'll become a cancer now. If so, it's quite an accomplishment for coach DeBoer and I hope JM gets him a regular run-of-the-mill goalie tandem along with a stronger offense as that's a roster that I think will respond better to his methods.
RoadDoggFL, forget I said the word 'rash'. And I said it totally hypothetically suggesting to Harv that if he chooses Andy over Vokoun as clear-cut number 1, Vokoun will need to be addressed somehow. I doubt it he will take it just fine.

And from the way I presented my question to Harv, I thought it was apparent that I was not of the same opinion as him about the choice.

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01-01-2009, 02:43 PM
  #20
sinDer
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With all that being said, the WHOLE team must play better

They lost 2 to Tampa before to lose against NYI, but the season is not over; 4 pts behind the 8th spot with one game in hand.

They lost back-to-back games against Tampa-Bay....what about winning back-to-back against Pittsburgh and Montreal this week-end? After all, it's a new year!

Let's see if they can bounce back this week-end, the fear of losing can do miracles sometimes

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01-01-2009, 04:32 PM
  #21
RoadDoggFL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
RoadDoggFL, forget I said the word 'rash'. And I said it totally hypothetically suggesting to Harv that if he chooses Andy over Vokoun as clear-cut number 1, Vokoun will need to be addressed somehow. I doubt it he will take it just fine.

And from the way I presented my question to Harv, I thought it was apparent that I was not of the same opinion as him about the choice.
Yeah, my bad on that. But people have called him a potential problem in the locker room. And if that hypothetical scenario ever came true, it will be quite an accomplishment by a coach that I didn't have a problem with until now.

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Old
01-02-2009, 09:15 AM
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I've followed hockey for over 20 yrs. I have never seen a coach pull goalies like this. Even Keenan did not do it with this regularity (from memory). DeBoer did a great job in Kitchener and I felt he was a great choice. However, watching this situation unfold in FLA is disappointing. Someone tell him you cant do this over & over again as it loses its affect. Now, it just inspires failure.

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01-02-2009, 12:57 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
I've followed hockey for over 20 yrs. I have never seen a coach pull goalies like this. Even Keenan did not do it with this regularity (from memory). DeBoer did a great job in Kitchener and I felt he was a great choice. However, watching this situation unfold in FLA is disappointing. Someone tell him you cant do this over & over again as it loses its affect. Now, it just inspires failure.
it is frustrating but ... have you watched the games? these are games the team NEEDS and they are just falling apart. desperate times call for desperate measures, etc., etc. having watched all these games, i really don't have a problem with what PDB has done - he tried leaving guys in and the team was unable to bootstrap itself up and out of the mire. he's tried ... well, pretty much everything. what he hasn't done is flat out embarrass a goalie by pulling him mid-period (at least that i can remember). maybe he needs to try that next?

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Old
01-02-2009, 03:51 PM
  #24
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I wonder. Does PDB have a history of being quick to pull the trigger? Does anyone know his history re. this in the minors? If he doesn't have a history of this, then it tells me that he's trying to send a very clear message.

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