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Subban Better than McDo?

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Old
01-01-2009, 06:57 PM
  #1
GoldenForum
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Subban Better than McDo?

Watching last night's game, I felt that Subban looked much stronger than McDo. We all know about PK's offensive abilities (he brings so much to Team Canada offensively, PP or not), but it's his defensive improvement, notably his decisionmaking, poise, and 1st pass that really caught my eye.

Today, Norman Flynn published an article in La Presse suggesting PK is better than McDo (at this stage): http://www.rds.ca/lhjmq/chroniques/266243.html

Your thoughts: At this stage of their careers and long-term

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01-01-2009, 06:58 PM
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Coldplay
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Norman Flynn is a stupid ****.

Subban isn't even the same kind of d-man as McDo...in the long run, I think once McDo settles into his game, he'll be the superior defenceman.

At this stage, fine, I'll give it to Subban...but there is no way Mac won't be the better one long term.

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01-01-2009, 07:02 PM
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Flynn is an idiot

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01-01-2009, 07:02 PM
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Kriss E
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Norman Flynn?..Were you really trying to back up your point using him as a reference??..:

Flynn is saying P.K is having a better tourny than McDo. Okay, that doesn't mean he's necessarily better.

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01-01-2009, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Norman Flynn is a stupid ****.

Subban isn't even the same kind of d-man as McDo...in the long run, I think once McDo settles into his game, he'll be the superior defenceman.

At this stage, fine, I'll give it to Subban...but there is no way Mac won't be the better one long term.
Subban has more upside, he has a bomb from the point and is a great skater. Not sure where you figure McDonagh will be better. In the last 2 years no prospect has come farther than PK, not Pacioretty or even D'agostini. McDonagh had some rough spots last night, but for the most part he's been solid. Subban has been a force in the WJHC(not just against weak competition, 3pts last night) and OHL. It will be hard to keep him out of the NHL next year.

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01-01-2009, 07:11 PM
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Pax Macioretty
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hey guys, shut the **** up a little will you? He wrote '' Subban est ''PRÉSENTEMENT'' meilleur que Mcdonagh. Godamn, one is leading the tournament in points for defensmens, is assistant captain for the best team in the tournament, is flying evreywhere on the ice with and without the puck while the other one was on the ice for mostly all of canada's goals and was completely innefective offensively out there. Subban is better right now, period. No need to talk BS of an atricle from someone you haven't even taken time to read.

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01-01-2009, 07:11 PM
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Marc the Habs Fan
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Whatever. It's a great tournament and I love watching it, but people read way too much into what prospects do in these games and make such HUGE assumptions based on it. It happens every year.

It hasn't been a great tournament for McDonagh and it has been a great one for Subban, but it's been FOUR games! It's a small sample size.

I remember the WJC when Latendresse got benched and mediocreties like Tom Pyatt, Mike Blunden, Ryan O'Marra, Dan Bertram, Steve Downie, etc all played big minutes instead. 3 years later and one's in the NHL, the others aren't.

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01-01-2009, 07:11 PM
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Subban is more impressive NOW than McDo. Means so much as far as what the future holds.....But then, should'be surprised about RDS and our prospects (note that I really do mean RDS and not just Flynn 'cause aside from Leroux, nobody knows anything about our guys...).

So Flynn is basing himself on the tournament to make that kinda of statement??? Is he even talking about the tournament or just that one game? Is Flynn in Ottawa? How many US games as he seen?

I think you can fairly say, as I'm doing, that McDo could not meet your expectations but Subban better than McDonagh and that's it? Come on...He could be, but I have against how he makes his analysis...

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01-01-2009, 07:14 PM
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You're a genius, starting one of my favorite types of thread: Lets compare two players, preferable young ones, who have no similarities at all.

Belongs right up there with the Higgins/SKost/Lats comparisons. Great job.

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01-01-2009, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
hey guys, shut the **** up a little will you? He wrote '' Subban est ''PRÉSENTEMENT'' meilleur que Mcdonagh. Godamn, one is leading the tournament in points for defensmens, is assistant captain for the best team in the tournament, is flying evreywhere on the ice with and without the puck while the other one was on the ice for mostly all of canada's goals and was completely innefective offensively out there. Subban is better right now, period. No need to talk BS of an atricle from someone you haven't even taken time to read.
Quote:
Après avoir regardé attentivement les prouesses de Subban et de Ryan McDonagh - un autre défenseur membre de l’organisation du Canadien de Montréal -, je crois que Subban est supérieur à l’Américain. Rien ne dit que ce sera la même chose l’automne prochain, mais c’est vraiment le cas depuis le début du tournoi.
Sorry but the guys makes a statement that based on this tournament, Subban is superior to him. How I read this is that by saying "I believe that Subban is superior to the American" well, if you would read that stats, you don't believe it, you know it. It's so clear that Subban is superior during this tournament, no need to make that kinda of statement. So I really believe that he uses that tournament (and again we don't know how many other US games he saw) to say that Subban is superior. The fact that he adds that "nothing says that it will be the same thing next year" makes me think that this phrase would not have been needed IF he had only meant during this tournament...

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01-01-2009, 07:16 PM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
hey guys, shut the **** up a little will you? He wrote '' Subban est ''PRÉSENTEMENT'' meilleur que Mcdonagh. Godamn, one is leading the tournament in points for defensmens, is assistant captain for the best team in the tournament, is flying evreywhere on the ice with and without the puck while the other one was on the ice for mostly all of canada's goals and was completely innefective offensively out there. Subban is better right now, period. No need to talk BS of an atricle from someone you haven't even taken time to read.
Flynn is basing his opinion off 4Games, 3 of which versus teams weaker than a AAA Midget team in Canada.

Flynn is solely talking about the tournament games because he probably hasn't seen either player perform in their respective teams this year.
There's a long line between who's the better player in General or in the Tournament.

The fact he finishes by saying it might be different in a couple months, shows he doesn't know anything about either of them and is using the tourny as his judging point.

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01-01-2009, 07:17 PM
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I agree, Flynn is an idiot. He's not even aware about the basic rules of Hockey. Last night, there were a "too many men" penalty in the Canada/USA game, and he said that there shouldn't been one, because the guy who jumped on the ice did not touch the puck. Stéphane Leroux was arguing with him saying that anyone on the penalized team who touches the puck would lead to a penalty but he keeps blaming the refs.

Anyways, RDS hockey analysts all dumb and biased.

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01-01-2009, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
You're a genius, starting one of my favorite types of thread: Lets compare two players, preferable young ones, who have no similarities at all.

Belongs right up there with the Higgins/SKost/Lats comparisons. Great job.
I disagree with your take. Why can't we have a candid discussion about two players who are currently before our eyes on the biggest international stage. IMO, a very useful moment to compare. Many scouts often consider this international competition to be THE defining moment to rank players (ie. I've heard scouts and other hockey people say stuff like: 'if a player can dominate his peers at this level, he will likely dominate them at the NHL level too'). Entering the tournament, I wholeheartedly expected McDo to be stronger than Subban...I've just been blown away by PK's poise (offensively and defensively) and ho-hum about McDo (hasn't really stood out at what he does).

Also, knowing I stand in the minority after reading some of the Norman Flynn bashing posts above, I have to say I disagree with those as well. Flynn often publishes insightful little pieces. Perhaps you don't like him, but to call him an idiot-- I think that ultimately reflects more on the caller than Flynn himself.

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01-01-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
I disagree with your take. Why can't we have a candid discussion about two players who are currently before our eyes on the biggest international stage. IMO, a very useful moment to compare. Many scouts often consider this international competition to be THE defining moment to rank players (ie. I've heard scouts and other hockey people say stuff like: 'if a player can dominate his peers at this level, he will likely dominate them at the NHL level too'). Entering the tournament, I wholeheartedly expected McDo to be stronger than Subban...I've just been blown away by PK's poise (offensively and defensively) and ho-hum about McDo (hasn't really stood out at what he does).

Also, knowing I stand in the minority after reading some of the Norman Flynn bashing posts above, I have to say I disagree with those as well. Flynn often publishes insightful little pieces. Perhaps you don't like him, but to call him an idiot-- I think that ultimately reflects more on the caller than Flynn himself.
There's really nothing to discuss if the crux is to determine why one is 'better' than the other. Those two defensemen couldn't be more opposite physically or in attributes. A pointless topic means pointless debate.

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01-01-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
I agree, Flynn is an idiot. He's not even aware about the basic rules of Hockey. Last night, there were a "too many men" penalty in the Canada/USA game, and he said that there shouldn't been one, because the guy who jumped on the ice did not touch the puck. Stéphane Leroux was arguing with him saying that anyone on the penalized team who touches the puck would lead to a penalty but he keeps blaming the refs.

Anyways, RDS hockey analysts all dumb and biased.
that part of your comment clearly showed that you are the one biased .

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01-01-2009, 08:01 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by 100th View Post
that part of your comment clearly showed that you are the one biased .
Actually he's right on the money.
RDS crew are as much fans of the Habs than any other regular fan like yourself.

TSN crew are pretty neutral, RDS not so much.

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01-01-2009, 08:05 PM
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Subban has been impressive. Everytime he's out on the ice, Canadas productive. I thought he was good for awhile now, but he used to make some obvious mistakes that would put his team in trouble. He's gotten better, and he'll be hard to keep out of our line-up next year during tryouts.

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01-01-2009, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Subban has more upside, he has a bomb from the point and is a great skater. Not sure where you figure McDonagh will be better. In the last 2 years no prospect has come farther than PK, not Pacioretty or even D'agostini. McDonagh had some rough spots last night, but for the most part he's been solid. Subban has been a force in the WJHC(not just against weak competition, 3pts last night) and OHL. It will be hard to keep him out of the NHL next year.
LOL i see you no NOTHING about McDo !!!!

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01-01-2009, 08:08 PM
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Clumsyhab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100th View Post
that part of your comment clearly showed that you are the one biased .
Brunet, Morissette, Therrien and Flynn, which one isn't dumb or biased?

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01-01-2009, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
There's really nothing to discuss if the crux is to determine why one is 'better' than the other. Those two defensemen couldn't be more opposite physically or in attributes. A pointless topic means pointless debate.
So why chime in? If you think it's a pointless debate, probably best to stay on the sideline.

Here's why the debate is intriguing: McDo was our much heralded 1st round pick; PK more of a work in project 2nd round pick. Even in terms of development, McDo was probably considered ahead of PK. They are both likely going to be key players for the Habs in the future, both were projected to have offensive talent (yes, PK has more), and we rarely get to see them play, particularly on such a competitive international stage. Why not discuss where they stand and project a bit into the future (I mean the board is derived from Hockeys Future).

Don't mean to turn this discussion into a you and me affair. I just find it intriguing to ponder on the heels of such great junior hockey. Sorry if you're put off.

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01-01-2009, 08:21 PM
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Who cares we own both of them

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01-01-2009, 08:27 PM
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Yahh but Kristo is waaay better than the both

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01-01-2009, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WeezyHabFan View Post
Yahh but Kristo is waaay better than the both
Kristo, McDo and Subban

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01-01-2009, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GoldenForum View Post
So why chime in? If you think it's a pointless debate, probably best to stay on the sideline.

Here's why the debate is intriguing: McDo was our much heralded 1st round pick; PK more of a work in project 2nd round pick. Even in terms of development, McDo was probably considered ahead of PK. They are both likely going to be key players for the Habs in the future, both were projected to have offensive talent (yes, PK has more), and we rarely get to see them play, particularly on such a competitive international stage. Why not discuss where they stand and project a bit into the future (I mean the board is derived from Hockeys Future).

Don't mean to turn this discussion into a you and me affair. I just find it intriguing to ponder on the heels of such great junior hockey. Sorry if you're put off.
Because you're basing your evaluation off 4Games. 3 of which were played versus weak teams.

That simply does not give you the required qualifications to discuss such a debate.
That's why Flynn is a moron for writing a column about it when he knows nothing more than any regular fan here.

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01-01-2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Kristo, McDo and Subban
How about Air Torpedo???

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