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Subban Better than McDo?

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Old
01-02-2009, 07:30 PM
  #76
Kimota
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Don't worry.....Flynn said earlier that the US got an icing 'cause the player did not cross the red line and that BASED ON THE PLAYER'S SKATES, the icing occurred.....and I thought that it was the puck that was important....

Flynn is a good analyst, especially when you compare him to what RDS have. I just don't think that we have to agree with him just because he said so...

But again, if we misread the Subban vs McDo and he's just saying that Subban is having a superior tournament than McDo, well he's right and we all agree. I just don't think that's what he's saying.
Flynn is not a good analyst. He's about the level of Brunet and all the boring former coachs and players that RDS hires. Subban is more showy. It doesn't mean he's better.

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01-02-2009, 10:41 PM
  #77
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For what it's worth, there's a tread about Subban on the WJC forum and the general opinion is very high. Many identify him as one of the most important player in the Canadian team. For a guy penciled as a 7th defenseman that's pretty good.

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01-02-2009, 10:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
For what it's worth, there's a tread about Subban on the WJC forum and the general opinion is very high. Many identify him as one of the most important player in the Canadian team. For a guy penciled as a 7th defenseman that's pretty good.
Subban was not penciled the 7th d-man. Maybe 5th but Ellis was coming as the #7th and Pietrangelo the #8th 'cause of his so-so showing at camp.

My opinion on Subban is VERY HIGH. I keep saying how his defensive deficiencies were overrated, that his coaches are so high on him, that he's got one of the nicest character around, seems to have a lot of leadership, I mean honestly what's not to like, definately top 3 as far as our prospects are concerned and I'm extremely thrilled to have him....when other fanbases are saying they're jealous of one of your prospects.....how can you not love it. As far as this thread is concerned, and despite me being underwhelmed by Ryan McDonagh as far as this tournament is concerned and his start of the season in Wisconsin (mind you, I didn't see as many games as Montreal did....), I'm just saying that it's too soon too tell who will turn out the best player for us. There are strong possibilities that both guys will turn out as great players for us in their own way.

I might have some new reservations as far as McDo's play that I didn't have before but it doesn't mean that I think he's garbage on the contrary. But I don't think it's fair, IF PEOPLE ARE DOING IT, to take a tournament and then judge how they'll turn out later because of their performance in it. But clearly, Subban is having a better tournament than McDo is having, at least in my view....

Again, what's not to like. Like some have already said.....they are both our prospects, that's the great news!

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01-02-2009, 11:09 PM
  #79
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It would seem that way. We'll have to wait and see. As of right now Subban is better than McDo but I think McDo will end up the better defensemen. On the brightside, PK has looked good in his own end so I may be wrong.

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01-02-2009, 11:45 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Subban was not penciled the 7th d-man. Maybe 5th but Ellis was coming as the #7th and Pietrangelo the #8th 'cause of his so-so showing at camp.

My opinion on Subban is VERY HIGH. I keep saying how his defensive deficiencies were overrated, that his coaches are so high on him, that he's got one of the nicest character around, seems to have a lot of leadership, I mean honestly what's not to like, definately top 3 as far as our prospects are concerned and I'm extremely thrilled to have him....when other fanbases are saying they're jealous of one of your prospects.....how can you not love it. As far as this thread is concerned, and despite me being underwhelmed by Ryan McDonagh as far as this tournament is concerned and his start of the season in Wisconsin (mind you, I didn't see as many games as Montreal did....), I'm just saying that it's too soon too tell who will turn out the best player for us. There are strong possibilities that both guys will turn out as great players for us in their own way.

I might have some new reservations as far as McDo's play that I didn't have before but it doesn't mean that I think he's garbage on the contrary. But I don't think it's fair, IF PEOPLE ARE DOING IT, to take a tournament and then judge how they'll turn out later because of their performance in it. But clearly, Subban is having a better tournament than McDo is having, at least in my view....

Again, what's not to like. Like some have already said.....they are both our prospects, that's the great news!
For me Subban should of been the player of the match yesterday, that's how good he was. McGuire keeps talking about Ellis, but Subban is the heart and sole of the PP. (BTW I am sure that McGuire has a slight distaste for Subban. He is quick to point our errors, or that he free wheels and keeps giving credit to Ellis when Subban did all the work on the 1st and 2nd goal yesteday, but I digress.)

I have not seen one defenseman with his ability to skate with the puck in this tournament. He also looks bigger then I remembered.

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01-02-2009, 11:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
For me Subban should of been the player of the match yesterday, that's how good he was. McGuire keeps talking about Ellis, but Subban is the heart and sole of the PP. (BTW I am sure that McGuire has a slight distaste for Subban. He is quick to point our errors, or that he free wheels and keeps giving credit to Ellis when Subban did all the work on the 1st and 2nd goal yesteday, but I digress.)

I have not seen one defenseman with his ability to skate with the puck in this tournament. He also looks bigger then I remembered.
D man? hell PK out skates most of the forwards as well

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Old
01-03-2009, 09:44 AM
  #82
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I'm looking forward to see both of them top pairing Montreal defense in years to come. I think that they are perfect complement to each other. An offensive treat with a kind of stay at home d-man who's able to rush the puck when he needs. A lefty with a righty. Great draft!

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01-03-2009, 09:54 AM
  #83
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although i only watched 1 game, i have to say i like how they both played in that game and i was quite impressed.. subban looked really good and given all thats been said about his defensive liabilities he didnt look THAT terrible out there to me, while mcdonagh seemed to be the victim of either bad luck or a miscue/miscommunication with his partner.
in the end tho, as kimota said, subban is more showy so when you have a small sample size nothing can be truly analyzed long term

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Old
01-03-2009, 10:47 AM
  #84
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McDonagh is no longer our top prospect. Subban AND Weber have passed him on defense and D'Agostini and Pacioretty have passed him up front.

I'm not saying he is bad just that he is complete enough to be called our top prospect. He doesn't have the offensive upside of Subban and Weber. He is on pace for 20pts this year. Komisarek had 30pts in his sophmore year and McDonagh isn't the physical monster that Komisarek is.

Subban is having a junior that few others have had (except Ellis). His numbers are up there with guys like Schneider, Berard and McCabe (Ellis is up there is Coffey). Schneider might be a good example of Subban's potential.

If you want to say the McDonagh has more potential then Fischer is better than both of them because by the sounds of it he has the most tools in the organization.

Stealing from Warren Buffett, you use past performance to predict future performance. Based on that Subban will be better.

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01-03-2009, 10:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by leefuyoung View Post
McDonagh is no longer our top prospect. Subban AND Weber have passed him on defense
Wrong.

Plain and simple you don't know what you're talking about.

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01-03-2009, 10:56 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefuyoung View Post
McDonagh is no longer our top prospect. Subban AND Weber have passed him on defense and D'Agostini and Pacioretty have passed him up front.
Based on what exactly? Timmins seems to think pretty highly of him...

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01-03-2009, 11:04 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Wrong.

Plain and simple you don't know what you're talking about.
Care to elaborate?

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Old
01-03-2009, 11:10 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefuyoung View Post
Stealing from Warren Buffett, you use past performance to predict future performance. Based on that Subban will be better.
My god.....keep Warren Buffett where he belongs but not in hockey.....If so all the junior starts would be NHL stars and there wouldn't be any late bloomers, and the only guys that would have made it would be 1st rounders 'cause chances are if they were picked after that round, they hade more deficiencies in their game than the others etc....

There's just nothing more wrong than that phrase.....Sure there are junior stars that are NHL stars.....but how is it the norm?

Again, basing yourself on one single tournament, WHILE IT COULD END UP BEING TRUE, is total nonsense. Development is key, and adaptation as well and that we will know later on in their respective career. I have some reservation as far as McDo's play but NEVER to determine that he's been passed, he's done, they've all surpassed them and so on.....

I keep saying this and will repeat it.....and same applies for Fischer....but if McDo and Fisch would have been playing at the Junior Level instead of the NCAA, we might be singing another song....

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01-03-2009, 11:18 AM
  #89
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Who cares we own both of them
Gainey......

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01-03-2009, 01:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
My god.....keep Warren Buffett where he belongs but not in hockey.....If so all the junior starts would be NHL stars and there wouldn't be any late bloomers, and the only guys that would have made it would be 1st rounders 'cause chances are if they were picked after that round, they hade more deficiencies in their game than the others etc....

There's just nothing more wrong than that phrase.....Sure there are junior stars that are NHL stars.....but how is it the norm?

Again, basing yourself on one single tournament, WHILE IT COULD END UP BEING TRUE, is total nonsense. Development is key, and adaptation as well and that we will know later on in their respective career. I have some reservation as far as McDo's play but NEVER to determine that he's been passed, he's done, they've all surpassed them and so on.....

I keep saying this and will repeat it.....and same applies for Fischer....but if McDo and Fisch would have been playing at the Junior Level instead of the NCAA, we might be singing another song....
True success at one level does not mean a player will be successful at the next level. But it is almost an absolute that unless a player has been a dominant player at some level they will NEVER be a dominant player in the NHL.

Right now Subban is a dominant player in the OHL. McDonagh isn't a dominant college player, Yet. He may take that step next year who knows but as of right the signs say Subban is better. Thats not based on this tournament that is based on there career performance so far.

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01-03-2009, 01:41 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
LOL i see you no NOTHING about McDo !!!!
With another gold medal hanging around his neck. The Habs will be full of experience. Full of WJC and AHL champions these Habs will be hungry for the big silver cup for years to come.

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01-03-2009, 02:07 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by leefuyoung View Post
True success at one level does not mean a player will be successful at the next level. But it is almost an absolute that unless a player has been a dominant player at some level they will NEVER be a dominant player in the NHL.

Right now Subban is a dominant player in the OHL. McDonagh isn't a dominant college player, Yet. He may take that step next year who knows but as of right the signs say Subban is better. Thats not based on this tournament that is based on there career performance so far.
Really?..Because based on all the reports I've randomly read, all fingers still point toward McDonagh for the better prospect.

It's not because Subban gets more points that he's the better all around D.
PK is ahead in terms of point production, and his skating his great although Ryan's isn't too shabby as well.

I think PK is having an amazing tourny, he might also be having a better year than Ryan. But I don't think we can say he's now ahead of him in terms of being the better prospect.

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01-03-2009, 03:24 PM
  #93
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Very very impressed by him. Pay attention to the little details, and you'll see this guy is a great hockey player. His head is always up, reading the play, stick handling is good, his skating is great, his shot is great- but best of all, he's always learning. Im very excited to see him in pre-season next year, because if he wears his emotions on his sleeve like he always does, there's no stopping him.

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01-03-2009, 03:46 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Habber09 View Post
With another gold medal hanging around his neck. The Habs will be full of experience. Full of WJC and AHL champions these Habs will be hungry for the big silver cup for years to come.

LMAO, yes hockey knowledge will always say that you win IIHF tournys with 1 player.

Good one M Flynn.

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01-04-2009, 01:37 AM
  #95
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I was going to create a new thread, but this seems like the place.....

I was at the Canada-Russia game tonight, and had Eberle not been the goal scoring hero for Canada, Subban was easily the MVP/best player in the game.

I'm not sure if it was evident watching on TV, but every time P.K. had the puck, everybody in the crowd would stand up and start cheering his name. He got everybody in the building, including his own team, fired up. Leave it to a future Hab to get an Ottawa crowd to stand up and cheer, but his skating ability and confidence with the puck will make him one of the more popular NHL Dmen in a few years. As a Sens fan, part of me hates to see it, but Subban is the da bomb.

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01-04-2009, 08:20 AM
  #96
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Subban was on the ball in OT last night. I was hoping he'd score the winner.

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01-04-2009, 08:26 AM
  #97
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What impresses me about Subban is how good he is defensively for a player of that type. He is much much more aware defensively than Coffey was at the same age. It is interesting that Coffey was the best player in his draft year but we chose Wick and are still whining about Denis. To see how strong Subban is for a player of that type bodes well. Both are such great skaters that the Habs seem set.

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01-04-2009, 08:33 AM
  #98
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From what I've seen from Subban during this tournament this kid is going to be a top end D man when he cracks the Habs line-up, and a force to be reckoned with. Just his ability to rush the puck up the ice through traffic is something amazing to watch. In that respect he reminds me of Bobby Orr.

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01-04-2009, 10:07 AM
  #99
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Subban has had a great tournament so far, but I'm not sure how much we should read into it. There have been a lot of prospects come through this tournament who never did anything afterwards, just as there have been players cut who went on to great NHL careers.

As for the comparison between Subban and McDonagh, they're very different players. McDonagh strikes me as a defence-first, smart player with good closing speed, a safe first pass, and sound body work. That is an NHL profile. He doesn't have to change anything in his game. He just has to keep improving. Basically, it's boring but safe, as he'll never be a gamebreaker (either way) the way Subban might be.

Subban has great skills but is a little erratic. Even against Russia, he had some outstanding end-to-end rushes, but also some headshakingly bad giveaways. The challenge for Subban will be to keep the good and fix the bad as he moves up levels. It gets harder and harder to be successful with that flambouyant style as you rise, but also it gets easier and easier to get burned for your mistakes. If he can keep the same enthusiasm and creativity but get rid of the errors, then he will be an excellent prospect.

My feeling is that he draws his offence from the same source as he draws his mistakes. In other words, I suspect that the only way to get rid of the errors completely is to stifle that instinct that makes him so fun to watch. I'm happy with him as a prospect, but I want to see how he adjusts to the AHL before calling him a top end prospect. While my impression is that he'll always be a turnover/mistake risk, kind of like Kovalev, I'm hoping that he'll refine his game to the point where we can live with the regular but infrequent bad and enjoy the overall good.

Anyway, I am anything but a prospect expert, so I might very well be full of it.

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Old
01-04-2009, 10:07 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by MuffinMan View Post
I was going to create a new thread, but this seems like the place.....

I was at the Canada-Russia game tonight, and had Eberle not been the goal scoring hero for Canada, Subban was easily the MVP/best player in the game.

I'm not sure if it was evident watching on TV, but every time P.K. had the puck, everybody in the crowd would stand up and start cheering his name. He got everybody in the building, including his own team, fired up. Leave it to a future Hab to get an Ottawa crowd to stand up and cheer, but his skating ability and confidence with the puck will make him one of the more popular NHL Dmen in a few years. As a Sens fan, part of me hates to see it, but Subban is the da bomb.
Thanks MuffinMan, classy post.

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